Goa trance vs the labels and music industry... A big article from the Suntrip point of view! :)

[Anoebis]

Ok, I had to do this for a long time... And here is the result after a few weeks of work... We, at Suntrip, took all the info, sales and data we could find, and made graphics out of it!

As far as I know this is the first time a label does this... You can see how sales are influenced by the digital revolution, how the total sales are, income/outcome etc... A lot to read, but I'm sure this is interesting for many of you!!! Scroll down... The next post is what we wrote, or download/View here

 

http://www.suntriprecords.com/media/misc/The_future_of_Goa-trance_vs_the_music_industry.pdf

[Anoebis]

 

 

 

 

 

[franki]

Thanks for sharing this information!

As an avid collector of CDs (I have all the Suntrip CD releases) this makes interesting reading.

I'm surprised that download sales are so low, but maybe, like myself, the kind of people interested in owning this music prefer a physical format.

I would expect the CD vs Digital graph for more mainstream genres to be very different. Personally, I don't like paying for downloads - it feels like I'm not really getting anything for my money, so whereas I buy just CDs, I guess some others who also don't like paying for downloads, probably just download illegaly for free in many cases.

 

I do feel a bit guilty buying the bulk of my Suntrip CDs from Arabesque, but it works out cheaper and I'm pretty much guaranteed next day delivery.

If this is impacting heavily on Suntrip as a label, I could probably be convinced to buy more direct from the Suntrip Shop...

[radi6404]

I am also surprised by low download sales, since I personally have bought many downloads. But Annoebis, this could because not all tracks are listed on your side and people have to open the suntriop boadcamp or how it was called, people will not want to look where they can get all tracks, they will want to buy them directly on your side or be linked with one click to the boadcamp.

 

And downloads are better than cds. You don`t get anything indeed, but it is better for the environment, no cd has to be pressed, no paper to be wasted, no fuel to be used for the transport. IN a world where oil is about to vanish we have to worry about everything, including cds.

[franki]

I can't see how you can just say "downloads are better than CDs".

I understand the environmental argument, but where do you draw the line? I think there are much bigger chunks of consumer product draining our resources to worry about than the CD which is dwindling in sales anyway.

With a CD you can rip it and then do anything with the file that you could a downloaded one, plus you'd have a physical back-up. Without wanting to enter into a CD vs digital argument, there are advantages & disadvantages to both, I feel.

[radi6404]

But you can have a backup on a DVD aswwell, where you can store several cds on one physical medium. How many cds will fit on a4,3 GB big DVD. A dvd will fit 6 uncompressed cds on one physical medium, which is much better. Ofcoure you are right that you have soemthing physical with a cd and I personally loe to have original cds, but in today`s world we have to worry about everything incuding cds.Nn paper, no plastic coer, no cd, much better for the environment.But if it is only a few cds a year it is not a big probem, however these days downloads are better in my opinion. Someone has to start making sacrifices for the environment. My sacrifices go from downoading digital music to using one bag for buying food on food stores instead of buying a bag with every purchase I have in a food store. The problems are very very serious and we have to care a lot in order to help the enironment at least a little. That is why I think it is really important to provide very easy access to digital music downloads. In case someone is interested he should find the downloads as quick as possible, not with boadcamp and so n This is not something to spam the forum or something, but ony to hep the environment, which is very important in my opinion, especially these da

[Anoebis]

@ Radi: if you buy directly from the Suntrip shop, you support us as much as when you buy a cd... but as you see, digital sales are only marginal.

[Neurosect]

download will NEVER be like CDs

after many years you can "feel" and "smell a cd..something unique..

same as with old vinyls

[franki]

I do share much of your view on the environment, Radi - I also take my own bags shopping, so there's no need for new plastic ones every time, plus I recycle as much as I can. I guess we all have our own guidelines as to what our conscience deems acceptable environmentally. It was just the blanket "downloads are better than CDs" statement that I took issue with.

[Anoebis]

Now, back on topic!

[radi6404]

@ Radi: if you buy directly from the Suntrip shop, you support us as much as when you buy a cd... but as you see, digital sales are only marginal.

 

Yes and I explained to you, that it is maybe because of the harder access to downloadable tracks. I don`t want to spam this thread, it is only a suggestion of mine. It would be best in my opinion, if you offer all the downloads directly on the suntrip store, where you can buy the cd, instead of offering only some downloads there and all downloads on the suntrip boadcamp. It is only a friendly suggestion which ofcourse you don`t have to consider.

 

For example Astral Projection made it easy to buy tracks from their side and this summer i almost bought 3 albums, Dancing Galaxy, Astral Files and some Another World tracks.

[franki]

Going back to the Arabesque scenario - the big benefit as I see it (from a customer's point of view,) is that all the new releases are easy to find in one place and you can keep track of when everything is coming out. Useful if you buy a broad spectrum of psymusic and don't fancy trawling all through the internet to find and order new CDs.

I guess though, as more and more people become aware of the Suntrip Shop, direct sales will go up. Suntrip is lucky in having a good reputation and loyal fanbase that will probably check the site for news now and then.

[Purple Sunray]

wow, thanks for sharing.

Just out of interest: are you running an booking agency / own event promotion too?

Know a lot if labels that started hosting their own festivals/party's and also provide artist promotion/booking services.

Just wondering is this "secondary activities" bring any noticeably revenue or if it just to bring more attention to the label and artists itself to push music sales on the other side.

[Drew05]

very interesting to read, thanks for being so open about the challenges facing labels today. this is valuable information. I have supported Suntrip before, and look forward to doing so again. It is clearly a labor of love and we all thank you for that

[Anoebis]

wow, thanks for sharing.

Just out of interest: are you running an booking agency / own event promotion too?

Know a lot if labels that started hosting their own festivals/party's and also provide artist promotion/booking services.

Just wondering is this "secondary activities" bring any noticeably revenue or if it just to bring more attention to the label and artists itself to push music sales on the other side.

 

Good question. I do Suntrip parties, but they are not really connected with Suntrip as my partner in crime is not linked with them directly. I do them with other persons. So if they are bringing in any money, it goes into another "company". Also, the 10 years Suntrip tour is pure to promote goa trance. Not 1 cent of that goes into our pocket. If an organiser takes the risk for a Suntrip party, they "earn" the profit if they make it!

 

We do bookings for our artists and promote events, but we do this for free... Fixing bookings for our artists is their benefit. Their payment for their hard work

 

So, no secundary income.

 

@Radi: I don't see the problem. You can buy our full albums on the website as a download, and for seperate track you can go to our bandcamp. Only a few clicks away. I don't see the problem... is this me?

 

 

 

[Guest The Hypnotic LFO Room]

Very interesting read with some good points.

 

However the digital downloads has always been lacking behind in the psytrance scene where I believe illegal downloads seem to be the way more than in other underground scenens (without any proof though).

 

Digital download sales are quite big in other electronic music scenes. In 2008 (to follow your start of using digital distribution) I ran a label (multiple genres within electronic music) based on digital downloads and the sales was quite impressive. And overall digital download sales boomed like crazy around 2007 but oddly enough USA is the major player in digital sales. Statistics on Beatport show that 75-80% of all sales are from USA. This is interesting and show we Europeans lack way behind embracing the digital way.

 

I still believe we have seen nothing yet and CD's will eventually sell less than digital sales. But I recognize it will take more time in the psytrance scene.

 

Good work Anoebis

[radi6404]

Annoebis, come on, as if yuo don`t know anyone will agree since you know how the general attitude is against me, the question si worthless. The best hing would be to look how it is on other pages and do the same, for example offer each track directly on the suntrip webpage. It is only a suggestion that could increase the sales a bit, but on the other hand you may be right and it will no increase the sells at all, who knows. i can tell only for my personal experience, when i wanted to buy tracks from suntriop and could not buy them there, than I asked here and you linked me to the boadcamp.

[Anoebis]

Very interesting read with some good points.

 

However the digital downloads has always been lacking behind in the psytrance scene where I believe illegal downloads seem to be the way more than in other underground scenens (without any proof though).

 

Digital download sales are quite big in other electronic music scenes. In 2008 (to follow your start of using digital distribution) I ran a label (multiple genres within electronic music) based on digital downloads and the sales was quite impressive. And overall digital download sales boomed like crazy around 2007 but oddly enough USA is the major player in digital sales. Statistics on Beatport show that 75-80% of all sales are from USA. This is interesting and show we Europeans lack way behind embracing the digital way.

 

I still believe we have seen nothing yet and CD's will eventually sell less than digital sales. But I recognize it will take more time in the psytrance scene.

 

Good work Anoebis

 

Very interesting... Can you tell more? This kind of info is super interesting! What genres sold the best? How much % of the sales were digital? Thanks for this interesting feedback!

[Ormion]

Very cool and interesting. As a cd buyer I'm actually happy than even in 2013 cd>digital. Keeping it old school!

 

I'm even more surprised that Sky Input isn't the best seller of Suntrip. I always had the impression that it's one of the most popular cds in the post 2000 era.

[BraneFreeze]

Because I suspect that other labels might use your document to justify their "CD only" sales policies, I felt obliged to beat a dead horse one more time. However, I actually think Suntrip does a pretty good job in a tough business.

 

I won't defend all of the digital outlets, but it seems to me that when you compare the Bandcamp margins (7.4 EUR) to the Suntrip store CD margins (7.9 EUR), it would be crazy to downplay or ignore that particular digital sales channel:

 

(1) No need to implement, manage, and update a proprietary web store;

(2) No costs for CD manufacturing or physical distribution;

(3) No inventory problems for current releases or back catalog;

(4) Simplified order fulfillment;

(5) Quicker availability of music compared to physical delivery (ie, higher customer satisfaction);

(6) Some customers are perfectly happy with high quality digital files (and audiophiles/collectors can still buy CDs).

 

Refusal to sell digital files doesn't mean that people will just give in and order a CD. First of all, it generates ill will among potential customers. And second, some of us will simply migrate to file sharing sites when we'd actually prefer to pay a few euros for a product we want (your albums) in a form we want (high quality digital files) in an acceptable time frame (immediately).

 

Excluding Suntrip, I don't understand a marginally profitable business model that deliberately ignores a low cost revenue stream, even if it's not large.

 

Thanks for your document.

[Rotwang]

Thanks for sharing this information!

+1

 

i can tell only for my personal experience, when i wanted to buy tracks from suntriop and could not buy them there, than I asked here and you linked me to the boadcamp.

The inconvenient memory filter strikes again. In reality, it was pointed out that the Bandcamp link is prominently displayed on the Suntrip site itself.

[Rotwang]

Going back to the Arabesque scenario - the big benefit as I see it (from a customer's point of view,) is that all the new releases are easy to find in one place and you can keep track of when everything is coming out.

Do you suppose there'd be any demand for a website that kept track of current releases like Goastore/Psyshop etc. but instead of selling them itself it featured links to the relevant pages of labels' own sites? Seems like it could work, though I'm not sure about the economics of it. Conceivably labels could submit details (it would be in their interest to do so if the site took off) so maintaining it wouldn't be too much work, and there could be an option for labels to pay to have their releases displayed more prominently. Sound plausible?

[Dolmot]

Many thanks for putting together this information, and of course for all the (mostly uncompensated) work on Suntrip.

 

The physical/digital ratio is indeed a bit surprising. I thought I belonged to an old-fashioned minority with my CDs but apparently not. One explanation may be that Suntrip is notably popular among goa-heads pining for the 90s and tending to buy physical. Another is that many modern consumers skip the purchasing/collecting stage altogether and just stream on Spotify, YouTube or whatever. Limited pocket money is spent on the latest cell phone upgrade instead. Oh well, I confess buying hardware and mostly pirating bits until I got a properly paying job so nothing new there.

 

(Also, I used to think that buying didn't really matter much as labels are doing just fine and artists are rock stars anyway, right? Then I learned about some of my favourites going under as they couldn't make 500 sales to justify a single minimum-batch pressing. That was an eye-opener. Does history repeat itself here too?)

 

 

And overall digital download sales boomed like crazy around 2007 but oddly enough USA is the major player in digital sales. Statistics on Beatport show that 75-80% of all sales are from USA. This is interesting and show we Europeans lack way behind embracing the digital way.

 

One reason is that most big digital stores were launched in the US and the content providers (that is, major labels/studios) were absolutely adamant on using country restrictions. Hardly surprising that the movement is stronger there with so much head start. Even today stuff like TV shows is released weeks or month later (or never) in other regions so people just routinely pirate it to get their goods fresh. People in Europe didn't buy for years because US rightholders simply refused to sell. How sad is that?

 

Why didn't European companies respond with their own stores, then? Well, that's already getting off topic but it might be related to the immense fragmentation between countries, languages and smaller enterprises. Also, many of the major platforms were driven by aggressive bundling with specific hardware and content providers. Such efficient partnerships were easier to find and form in the US.

 

Anyway, the whole matter becomes more interesting to discuss now when we have a bunch of hard figures to support (or debunk) various claims...

[radi6404]

+1

 

 

The inconvenient memory filter strikes again. In reality, it was pointed out that the Bandcamp link is prominently displayed on the Suntrip site itself.

 

 

Is there again need for attacking Rotwang? Fact is, I was going to buy some tracks 5 or 6 suntrip tracks, which I liked. I went to the cd I wanted and could not find download links to buy digital media of the tracks. I did not look at the top to go to boadcamp, and even if I did, I was not even familiar with the word boadcamp. So I did not find out how to buy directly in the shop and do you know what the result was? I did not buy any track from suntrip, altough I would have bought 5 tracks from them, and I can imagine some others don`t know about boadcamp or want directly linked downloads in order to download. If they don`t have such, they wont download.

[laik]

 

Statistics on Beatport show that 75-80% of all sales are from USA. This is interesting and show we Europeans lack way behind embracing the digital way.

 

 

to add to Dolmot's post I'll just say that legislation regarding piracy is more agressive in USA than EU

 

@ Anoebis - thanks for excellent insight