exotic Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 I was thinking first of all what is the motive behind these groups that exist on the internet, robbing artists of their work and making it available free of cost all over the net ? isnt it to make music available to people who would rather download than pay for music because the prices of cd's are exorbitantly high? or perhaps that it is relatively hard to find in music shops in and around where they live ? if these groups didnt exist wouldnt dependant groups look for other alternatives of precuring their choice of music? which brings us to online shops the only place other than second hand shops where psychedelic trance is available. another group with vested intersts whose only motive is to drain the unsuspecting customer of all his wealth with just a single purchase. damn if you're living in india or timbuktoo , its party time for them. more postage!! i plead ignorance here but im not completely sure of who pockets this amount , the postal department or online shops and in what proportion if any ? but alas there arent too many of us who can check in at a time and check out with all we desire. So we just curb our intincts make a couple of puchases our credit card balance can handle. and at the end of the day we're not the only ones unhappy. they feed on the apathy of the consumer who has to dish out quite a portion of his fortune on stupid postal charges as a result of the distance between the point of supply and the place of demand beacause he's a die hard collector and wants his own hard copy . They are just intermediaries (middlemen) between the artist and us. law of demand states that other things remaining the same as price goes down demand rises . So instead why not try and make it available in the market in music shops , moderatlely price the cd's .. create awareness of the available product , and see the sea change in attitude of the end customer. I for one will anyday buy music priced at say 8- 10$ than pay 14 dollars +postage ? There are enough people in india i know who would rather download an album than go to an online shop and have their credit card at risk at such a price becuase of the unavailibilty at a decent price . paying 8$ for good music is a fair price imo and doesnt hurt nobody. This would cut piracy by atleast 50% and less artists/labels would by crying about the fact that psytrance is not a viable career option and because they end up not getting back atleast of what they expected the sales to generate quit the scene or change their style to say drum and bass or cheese trance which would fetch them more bucks. its all a vicious circle which imo needs to break and as long as this trade on the internet continues , veteran psychedelic musicians will shift to another genre which can afford them their rent. By creating an open market with music moderately priced will do wonders for the psytrance music industry and the internet would be used less for conducting such trades and more for creating promotion and sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 I was thinking first of all what is the motive behind these groups that exist on the internet, robbing artists of their work and making it available free of cost all over the net ? isnt it to make music available to people who would rather download than pay for music because the prices of cd's are exorbitantly high? or perhaps that it is relatively hard to find in music shops in and around where they live ? if these groups didnt exist wouldnt dependant groups look for other alternatives of precuring their choice of music? which brings us to online shops the only place other than second hand shops where psychedelic trance is available. another group with vested intersts whose only motive is to drain the unsuspecting customer of all his wealth with just a single purchase. damn if you're living in india or timbuktoo , its party time for them. more postage!! i plead ignorance here but im not completely sure of who pockets this amount , the postal department or online shops and in what proportion if any ? but alas there arent too many of us who can check in at a time and check out with all we desire. So we just curb our intincts make a couple of puchases our credit card balance can handle. and at the end of the day we're not the only ones unhappy. they feed on the apathy of the consumer who has to dish out quite a portion of his fortune on stupid postal charges as a result of the distance between the point of supply and the place of demand beacause he's a die hard collector and wants his own hard copy . They are just intermediaries (middlemen) between the artist and us. law of demand states that other things remaining the same as price goes down demand rises . So instead why not try and make it available in the market in music shops , moderatlely price the cd's .. create awareness of the available product , and see the sea change in attitude of the end customer. I for one will anyday buy music priced at say 8- 10$ than pay 14 dollars +postage ? There are enough people in india i know who would rather download an album than go to an online shop and have their credit card at risk at such a price becuase of the unavailibilty at a decent price . paying 8$ for good music is a fair price imo and doesnt hurt nobody. This would cut piracy by atleast 50% and less artists/labels would by crying about the fact that psytrance is not a viable career option and because they end up not getting back atleast of what they expected the sales to generate quit the scene or change their style to say drum and bass or cheese trance which would fetch them more bucks. its all a vicious circle which imo needs to break and as long as the this trade on the internet exists , musicians will shift to another genre which can afford them their rent. By creating an open market with music moderately priced will do wonders for the psytrance music industry and internet would be used less for conducting such trades and more creating promotion and sales. New Electronic Order Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reznik Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 the question is: if one cant pay for it anyway - why not let him download it...and just experience the work. he couldnt have paid anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 the question is: if one cant pay for it anyway - why not let him download it...and just experience the work. he couldnt have paid anyway. How much do you pay for your internet every month? Lets say that you pay 40 euros? Would it make sense that you would give 20 euros more (60 Euros) and you were to get 20 tracks as downloads per month? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exotic Posted April 19, 2007 Author Share Posted April 19, 2007 the question is: if one cant pay for it anyway - why not let him download it...and just experience the work. he couldnt have paid anyway. will you buy an album from your local music store if its availble for half the price compared to online shops ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 will you buy an album from your local music store if its availble for half the price compared to online shops ?Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exotic Posted April 19, 2007 Author Share Posted April 19, 2007 Yes.so can i safely assume you arent much of a buyer but more of a downloader ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Without piracy many artists wouldn't be so popular and wouldn't gather many people at their gigs. Plus i was given the chance to explore MUCH of oldschool which is no longer on sale, as well even newer releases that come in vinyl only or on limited editions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abasio Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Well, Jikkenteki brought out an amazing double CD for $10 + free worldwide postage. Did you buy it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaft Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 so can i safely assume you arent much of a buyer but more of a downloader ? I'm same as Charlie, if I can get the same thing for less, I will. If there was a 2 bedroom flat for say $800/mo in a moderate area, and then the flat next door to that was exactly the same (semi-detached etc) and had the same features for $900/mo which one would you go for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Journey Man Project Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 I learnt that this issue is just never going away, there will never be a solution... people seem to have it in their nature to take things for free, to steal... getting worked up about it goes no where... someof us buy, some steal... life goes on... if a persons makes one excuse for piracy then they are to far gone to be turned back... I just think if people put as much effort as they do into searching onling, P2P and torrents into finding a damn job and working they'd have more than enough cash to buy their cd's... people are just really lazy worthless fucks! I bet I earn half as much as most of you onehere, yet I buy every damn cd... never once downloaded any music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaft Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Oh yeah and I have over 180CDs and never download stuff I can buy on CD. In fact I don't download period at the moment... not even online only releases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abasio Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 I don't really mind people downloading out of print stuff. But it's something I just can't do. Years ago I downloaded a few albums that I couldn't find & I never listened to them. Then I bought the CDs in a record store I listened to them a lot more & loved them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Journey Man Project Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 well I said I don;t download stuff I can get on cd's... and if you search hard enough you can find the old stuff and save up... tka eon extra work.. I have! I worked 72 hours straight one week with no sleep to by 4 Tantrance compilations... and if it is only online or if the musician orlabel gives it for free then of course it's ok d-uh... that kind of stuff isn't piracy, piracy is copying or giving away or selling copyrighted materials... it is theft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abasio Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 well I said I don;t download stuff I can get on cd's... and if you search hard enough you can find the old stuff and save up... tka eon extra work.. I have! I worked 72 hours straight one week with no sleep to by 4 Tantrance compilations... and if it is only online or if the musician orlabel gives it for free then of course it's ok d-uh... that kind of stuff isn't piracy, piracy is copying or giving away or selling copyrighted materials... it is theft. How do you feel about legal downloads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaft Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 How do you feel about legal downloads? I prefer having a CD. The thrill of getting a package in the mail and ripping off the shrinkwrap, looking at how shiny the disc is, flipping through the artwork is a much cooler experience than having a file downloaded off the Internet. Downloading makes the whole thing impersonal.. but then again it's a much more efficient method of distribution so it could probably benefit smaller labels. Anyway, for the time being there's still many stores stocking CDs so I will continue to buy CDs. Of course if people stopped selling CDs altogether I would have to switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exotic Posted April 19, 2007 Author Share Posted April 19, 2007 Well, Jikkenteki brought out an amazing double CD for $10 + free worldwide postage. Did you buy it? i got it as a christmas gift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abasio Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 I prefer having a CD. The thrill of getting a package in the mail and ripping off the shrinkwrap, looking at how shiny the disc is, flipping through the artwork is a much cooler experience than having a file downloaded off the Internet. Downloading makes the whole thing impersonal.. but then again it's a much more efficient method of distribution so it could probably benefit smaller labels. Anyway, for the time being there's still many stores stocking CDs so I will continue to buy CDs. Of course if people stopped selling CDs altogether I would have to switch. oh me too, easily but I downloaded a few things ultimae released only digitally from fake science. I assume the labels get a decent cut as I was directed there by Ultimae. Some great live sets for $5 I know what you mean though, the excitement of receiving a CD is as my 1000 strong collection and tiny bank balance can testify to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abasio Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 i got it as a christmas gift. It was a real shame more people didn't buy it & it kind of ruins your argument as this quality album was very fairly priced but people still preferred to steal it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaft Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 It was a real shame more people didn't buy it & it kind of ruins your argument as this quality album was very fairly priced but people still preferred to steal it I think what he means is that he was one of the winners of the christmas competition... I was too actually, got a copy of TLWH. I listened to it and I don't think it's worth all the hype to be honest. I will have another few listens before I decide for sure, because Ambiguity is a fine track Just that some parts seem overextended and too long, some parts don't sit with me too well, some of it's awesome. I will spin it sometime soon and decide. Otherwise I'll pass it on to someone who'll love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 nothing can make piracy extinct, it will die out itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Still dreaming, eh? Here are some facts for you: - many pirating sites do a better job promoting new releases than the labels do (check Google and you'll see) - legal digital downloads often cost more than the physical product and the selection is never as good as what you can find on pirate networks - downloading has become the way people procure music yet there is no comprehensive legal source for psytrance music online - there are several barriers to entry should one wish to buy psytrance (i.e. one must own a credit card) - releases never go out-of-stock on Soulseek and if they do, one can always check back in a few minutes - many psytrance fans come from countries where people do not typically have the kind of disposable income many of us Westerners are accustomed to (an important point many people gloss over) Downloading is a symptom of the psytrance industry's failure to address the challenges of a rapidly changing marketplace. If the artists, labels, and distributors can cooperate to develop a central portal that offers a huge selection of music at an affordable price in a variety of formats there's a chance the tide could be turned... I think you have to look at it this way: the vast majority of psytrance listeners get their music illegally not only because it is free, but also because it is extremely convenient, takes place instantly, and nearly anything can be found. There is not a legal service in the world that comes close. The flawed paradigm that has precipitated this situation can be expressed as follows: the industry does not need to respond to changes in customer buying habits; customer buying habits should conform to the will of the industry. This is why hundreds of CDs have been inscribed with the phrase "copy kills your music" over the years, but only one release (that I have heard of) included a spare CD to give to a friend. No wonder so many people simply pirate music these days--the culture of entitlement that dominates the psytrance industry practically ensures it. As such, the industry has not harmoniously adapted to changing circumstances; the system has become twisted. Distributors routinely rip off their clients just to stay alive, labels don't pay their artists, and so on down the line. It all seems quite dysfunctional--a mad scramble for the elusive consumer dollar. So it goes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rino Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 I usually avoid downloading music, and I NEVER download new stuff, that is very much still in stock! However, when it comes to some old school releases, rarities and all, I gotta come straight and say that I still have some of those gems in mp3 or WAV format on my computer. Yeah, it all comes down to how much does a certain release mean to you, and how much are you willing to pay for it. But, what about those people who cannot afford to pay as much as is requested? And I'm not talking about lazy asses who don't wanna work! I'm talking about people who have regular jobs, pay bills, support a household with a 400-500 euro salary! I will give an example: Dimension 5's debut album has recently reached such an astronomical price, that nowadays I would for sure be inclined to resort to some p2p software if I really wanted to hear it, or didn't have it... And internet has done its huge part in artist promotion. It has promoted and given some artists a chance to get world wide recognition and fan base; something they were potentially denied before due to limited distribution, for example. But what really does suck is the fact that with this whole piracy issue, music is really starting to lose its value. Albums are randomly distributed all over the internet, in some compressed sound quality, a vast majority of releases suffers from bad sound quality, despite the year they were made in... What bothers me is when people run their mouth about really adoring and respecting a certain artist, and when it comes down to showing their support by buying at least one single album, they go like: "Oh naw, man, I already got it on MP3!!!" That is so fucking cheap and disrispectful! So yeah, internet made everything available to everyone, it really did bring certain aspects of music to my attention, but it's a tricky thing. I really think people are starting to forget what buying and listening to music is all about... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 im not insider so cant say for sure, but - isnt that the music industry, especially psy industry invests no money into itself, ie, to step into 21st century distribution wise, like you mentioned with that huge portal with everything offered? sure we have some exceptions like itunes, beatspace etc, but thats like, nothing and far from perfect. and that point about income is quite valid point imo, lots of psy fans come from rather poor countries with quite low incomes compared to western world, thus even if they wanted to, they couldnt afford to buy music they like, and as much as they like, atleast moderately [sp?]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yohankiwi Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 I must admit I download (illegally) quite a lot However, I wouldn't consider myself a music pirate. I have a substantial CD collection (around 300) that I am also consistantly adding to. I mainly because i have a strong tendency to impulse buy a lot based on amazon reviews/recommendations from others etc, even though I haven't heard that particular person's/group's music before. In the past, this has often lead me to buying CDs that I don't actually like that much, making me waste money that i simply don't have. I now try to download new music that I haven't heard before in order to check it out. If i really like it, then i will always try to buy the actual CD at some point (may not be for a while though due to lack of money), not only because I feel proud of having concrete CDs of my favourite albums but also out of respect to the artist/band for putting out such good music. If i find it only mediocre then i usually just keep it on download. If it's shit then i delete it Downloading is one of the greatest tools I've found for introducing me to music (many of what i would now consider my favourite artists/bands I have orginally found by downloading, and even more via word of mouth on the internet). But I don't want to limit my music collection to just some text on a computer/ipod screen. I like my CDs too much for that Anyway, I think if more people had this attitude towards illegal downloading (i.e. having enough respect to actually buy the music if you really enjoy it) then piracy wouldn't be such a problem. I think too many people just take music for granted and this is why piracy has become such a big problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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