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well okay i wasnt even talking about loops then, i meant more as in programming your own drum breaks and patterns; seems really really difficult for some reason. using loops seems a bit easier, drum breaks like amen definitely. i wonder how many gazillion times that break has been used in techno and dnb. good tracks, nice drums on them all. heres a guy that has some insane timing..just casually playing some dnb on his mpc. (well okay technically not an mpc) (he is probably using the drums from the amen break lol sounds like it)