Procyon

As everybody read, it was said that we don't bitch about goa or progressive, only about LightPsy (sarcasm intended). Let's do it then. But I have a good reason: it has been more than one year since I last took part in a huge thread in that other forum, you know, the-one-we-can't-speak-about, about the then-current state of Neogoa, which were blossoming to its full beauty. However, many, including me, pointed that the whole Neogoa scene seemed to be one single endless track: they were so similar, so ultra-melodic, so unimaginative, that it soon became boring. I have listened to almost everything that was released in the last year. Honestly the only good thing I liked was E-Mantra's work. The rest is crap, sorry to say that so frankly. I heard, and then read, Artifakt 303's tracks and reviews- which everybody has been praising in Psynews. But in my opinion, his tracks have the same formulaic, generic, boring sequences everybody else has been doing. I immediately listened to Psychowave's release - it is all the same stuff. I just can't tell one artist from another, I don't have a track glued to my brain. And in my perception, the Neogoa stuff is starting to walk its path to oblivion. It is so predictable that people don't seem to care about releases, parties, sites related to Neogoa. It is a pity, I had high hopes that it would shake the whole psy-goa scene which has been letargic since 2002-2003. Sorry for the open critics, but I think it's important to have this debate in Psynews, perhaps the only forum where Neogoa is alive.

@Exotic, Rotwang, Ormion... Now you make me believe. A I wrote some posts ago, I was neutra about dark psyl. Now I see the truth, and I am neutral no more: you are all psychotics. Being psychotic it makes sense you listen to Dark Psy. This whole stupid thread convinced me that only lunatics listen, and enjoy, dark psy.

Gahh I can't believe I read this. The most nonsense post of all time. Believe me, I participate in 4 forums in 3 languages. I never, EVER, read an analysis so (speechless) as Exotic's.

You are doing no good to Dark Psy behaving like this. I disagree that other genres are not target of hard critics - I myself say some painful words to progressive and goa. Critics are important to the development of any art - if you read NYT you know how crucial it is. And, this is a forum, a place to debate. If you do not like reading opinions about your music, then you are not a mature fan or musician. Finally, where do you fans think that the idea that dark is associated with darkness came from collectively? Someone imagined it and then spread the word?? Come on! Almost every dark album has something suggesting it openly or subtly. You are trying to blame the messenger and not the source, weird way of analising facts. Sorry to say this, but this was the most childish psy thread I have seen in ages.

I don't think DP is satanic, but no one can deny that it's the psy subgenre that has made use of "horror" images, sounds and words more than any other. You hardly see a cover, a title or sounds that is related to good feelings. Of course, there must be some. But the vast majority is related to diseases, mental conditions, bad health, death, crimes, confusion, sadness. Well, darkness. Before I get hit by stones: I am neutral about dark, if I am at a party and someone plays some dark tracks, I will dance to it. I love some Mubali tracks, for instance. But I won't buy or have DP on my Ipod. It is a matter of energy, to me.

I disagree 100%. Imperfect as it may be, naming genres and sub-genres is a sign that a certain music, be it rock, electronic or whatever, has reached a point of maturity enough to need to branch out. Take rock for instance, as a businessman, or as a fan, you certainly can't line-up Lordi and Aerosmith in the same arena. They certainly have their hard-fans who can listen to other groups similar to them, but you hardly will see their fans crossing the line. The same applies to psytrance. There are different schools under the umbrellas called 'psy' and 'goa', certainly they do not sound the same. Out of curiosity, if KDD for you is not dark, then what is it?

Chi.ad - Infinitism(2001)

I don't know. This topic has been very informative here. You know what kind of exchanges happen in IT when we discuss 'dark psy' there. It usually turns into Battle of Dark Psy versus the rest of the Galaxy.

It would be fantastic to have opinions from real DP producers, from both sides (the 5% "horror" D-Dave mentioned and the "comedy horror" someone mentioned). It is a pity that the likes of Mubali, Psykovsky, Sychotria are not here to say what they have on their minds when they write a track.

Well, you may be right. Anyway I found this: http://www.wikimetal.info/wiki/Dark_Metal http://www.spirit-of-metal.com/liste_groupe-indexStyle-Dark_Metal-l-en.html

I may be mis-informing you guys, but I think that the word "dark" used in psy scene came from some heavy metal guys who transitioned from "dark metal" to psy scene. Isn't what happened to Xenomorph and Parasense, to mention only some?

@nectarios: yes, they may be considered hilarious. For you. As you mentioned a movie, I cite that there are a lot of people who can't watch "The Exorcist" (the original). Or "Rosemary's Baby". I have a friend who simply can't think of watching both, and he's a hard-punk. Go figure it. It comes to my mind a thread I once read in a trance list about a guy who freaked out in the woods, when a DJ started playing tracks with howlings. His friends wrote he panicked. You see, it does not work for some, but it affects others.

Well, you called me mongoloid (I was the one who mentioned Xenomorph's "Satan's Presence"), but that's ok. But your request is easy said, hardly done. Why? Because to start with, psychedelic trance always had a religion element inserted. What about its own title 'psychedelic'? Which sends us directly to an abstract definition of our senses? Add to the formula, the hindu deities (shiva, ganesh, and all the gang, used in covers and titles to this day). Also, to a lot of people (including me), psychedelic at its birth WAS a spiritual experience. My God! I felt the purest feeling of 'happiness" to Goa trance, in an Osaka club in 1996. I couldn't feel my body, only my mind drifting with the sounds. Mind you, I never took drugs to enter this state. Only a beer every now and then. So, you see, Ormion, there are a lot of people who couldn't enjoy dark-psy solely because of its "satanic" songs. I am one. Believe or not, I try hard to be a better person. This takes some meditation, some appreciation of the beauty of life, deep studies of kardecism. And I know a lot of people who are on the same boat, and they like - or used to like - the energy that psytrance sometimes can irradiate. It is unavoidable then, when we are talking about psychedelic trance, that spiritualism comes to surface. Unavoidable too, is to talk about "satanism" when dark-psy enters the room. It may be only a bunch of white, skinny geeks who produces that 5% you mentioned (but I think it's much more than that, I'd say half of the titles is about "horror", "tears", "fear", "phobia", and "devil"). But it's there, it's notorious. The same way full-on is associated to cheap sound and drugs, and Goa to deep space, insight and (rarely nowadays) elaborated melodies. Personally, I take this "satanic" stuff as sounds done by clueless teenagers full of acnes. But, you know, I am one who does not even think of evoking a devil force. For I believe, and I know, something will happen. That's one of the reason I do not listen to dark psy. I can't also enjoy it musically, way too fast, IMO. I decided to write this long post, so you know that to a lot of people, music is a source of energy. Psychedelic trance was one of the best sources I ever knew. Good and bad energies. So, please don't call "mongoloids" those you meet and say things like I told you here. There may even be a real mongo among them, but then this mongo may know things you don't. Peace.

The revenge:

I hadn't read this part. But you didn't need that D-Dave. Sure, GMS has been doing crap for the last 10 years. X-Dream also did some with their "vocal" trance. But both X-Dream an Delta are on a league of their own. You can rock a party with their tracks only. And I don't know where you got the idea that they destroyed the scene. To me, you can blame the lame-trance that GMS, IM, Astrix, Skazi started.

Tromesa did tech-trance, in my book. Not DP. Is it me, or some of us are taking tech-trance as dark-psy? To my ears, they're completely distinct. I simply LOVE tech-trance, so I know the difference.

Agree 100% Battle of the Future Buddhas. Of course!!

Great list D-Dave. I would add Psyko-Disco's "nobody" to the list. And, please excuse my ignorance, but BotFB stands for what psy band? I can't associate these letters with any group.

@ Timetrap: I think that almost all DT tracks are above 150 bpm. I think that Parasense -a snail in comparison to Psykovsky, for instance - started right there. I may be mistaken, of course.

Now that you guys mentioned, my memory also points to Parasense as the first time I heard dark-psy. I remember I thought it was way too fast - if only I could imagine that it would get even faster, as we hear currently. I also remember Xenomorph's "Satan", and how I got disappointed with a psytrance track with such a title. It was the first time that I had a track making open apology to satanism. I even once met Xenomorph in Isratrance and talked to him about this fact, he simply asked me to f**k myself. In my book, X-Dream's Radio is a mix between indutrial techno and psychedelism, never a "dark psy" album, or with elements of DP. As for DP today's status, I once read that there's "laser gun battle dark psy" and "satanic dark psy", and little room between them for really good tracks.

A friend of mine was listening to Dirty South, a VA I didn't remember I had, and he liked it a lot. He asked me what was the difference between Goa and dark, and that was easy. But then when he asked HOW was dark-psy created, I had no idea whatsoever. Any psychedelic trance expert here to explain how, where and when it was created?

7 out of 10. Way too sweet, as with most neogoa tracks. But it will please your fans.

Not what Psynews users would love, I agree. But, then, it's much better than some albums that have been released and get unrealistic reviews here.

Before or after the drinks?

He must be talking about the album being quasi-released every two months since 2004.