Ormion

I guess you realise what I mean as 'the rest of the world'.

It maybe silly. I also find silly that progressive is called like that when I don't hear any progress in it. I also find silly that most of regular trance tracks have nothing trancey-ecstatic at all. I also find silly that hardcore ain't that hard except for the kick. I also find silly that new classical music ain't that old to be considered as classical. You get my point. That's how it works and I don't think anyone can change that. Your three categories of our music is great, but psytrance is so diverse that even if we'd tried not to come with subgenre names eventually the names would come up themselves. Anyway no need to argue anymore. Although I don't understand why Cosmo ain't psytrance?

But the reason such an album exists is because psytrance has been commercialized in a degree! Alien Jesus album doesn't aim at you or me. It aims at the more mainstream audiences. Albums like these prove my point.

For me (and for the most people) I know they are Goa Full On Progressive Darkpsy Suomi Experimental Twilight With these subgenres and all the possible crossovers between them you can identify the majority of todays psytrance IMO. Some people may argue that Forest should be a sperate category since it does have a specific sound. Some others believe that Suomi may be included in the experimental genre etc. But IMO these names can describe 90% of psytrance today. Of course there is the other 10% that is plain psytrance. Now I just wanna say some things, just to clarify that I don't see a reason to 'fight'. IMO the whole argument started from the question 'how something that is both dark and psy is not darkpsy?' That is a very good question. But for some strange reasons specific names stick for specific styles. I don't know who first establish the term darkpsy and not psynight for example, but we have stuck with that. The same way we stuck with full on. To make more clear what I mean: AP-People Can Fly is for me one of the most full on tracks ever made. Full On as poweful, energetic. Yet if someone ask for full on tracks and I recommend him People Can Fly he would think I'm crazy. Full On means this, Prog means that, darkpsy means the other one. This is how thnigs work. In all music genres. No need to reinvent the names. We can't do that. It's like chaning history. @Lemmi Twilight is the term that desribes the South African and similar styles full on style. For years we called it full on too, but since the difference between them is so big that a different term was needed.

I have some pills if you need

You mean all four of them?

Genre names are important when we talk about a musical genre as diverse as psytrance. What did you expect, to call everything just psytrance? And identify by labels can't be done. Labels change their sound all the time. 3D Visios has gone from Goa, to dark, to full on, to twilight. Except if you find easier to ask about 98 period 3D Vision or 2004 period Parvati style recommendations. You guys have genrephobia. Seriously. I don't want 100 different subgenres, but 5-6 different ones (the ones we already have) are necessary...to talk about it in a forum like this. BTW Suomi and Twilight are not darkpsy.

You're right, but I don't think that both Armin Van Buuren and Protoculture classify his music as psytrance. I don't think that Buuren would ever play pure South African psytrance in his sets. He plays Protoculture cause ain't psy, so let him do whatever he wants. Who craes? Btw I'd never wanted to see a famous maistream dj to play pure psytrance. My personal opinion is that the moment a musical genre goes mainstream it loses its quality, something that has already happened in the psy scene with mainstream full on and progressive. I wish that the 'rest of the world' will never find out psytrance. Just leave us in peace. (And living in greee I still have vivid memories of uplifting and mainstream trends.

But the new Protoculture ain't psytrance, so we're ok.

Yes, I agree that many (if most) darkpsy tracks are not good for dancing, at least for me. Personally I don't listen to darkpsy for dancing, but for mindtripping. I close me eyes and dive into the dark tunnel...

I'm glad you put an old dark classic to the discussion. That proves how many different approaches exist about what dark is and that some people can actually enjoy all of them. I find Pleiadians-FOL dark. Dark as alien-ish, spacey, sci fi dark. I find Silent Horror dark. Dark as scary, depressive, evil dark. I enjoy both. And I don't see any reason to bash neither of them. Do you know how million times I've heard that darkpsy ain't dark, Project Genesis is? I mean how about both! For diefferent reasons. Why some people must bash darkpsy cause it delivers a different approach to darkness from what they prefer?

Double standards if you ask me. If a darkpsy track is not superdark-haunting-scary-I shitted my pants then is not dark. But if a Goa, prog or Full On track has a sliiightly darker bass then all of sudden is dark. I can't understand how some people don't consider darkpsy as dark. It has monotonous bass, no melodies, dark pads. It ''fits'' in darkness. It's much easier to appreciate a darkpsy track at night times than listening to 160 bpm noisy madness at sunshine. Many people use the term dark in two completelly different ways. 1-Dark as scary, haunting darkness 2-Dark as more night oriented sound These people judge darkpsy using the first way, but judge other subgenres using the second one. That's what I mean as double standards. I've heard many prog/full on tracks that supposed to be dark, because they have some dark sounds all over and yes it is dark if you compare it with the majority of prog/full on. But IMO is no way darker than 90% of darkpsy out there. I believe that is a matter of taste. Some people dislike darkpsy (and I respect that), so they use the 'darkpsy ain't dark' phrase. Cheap shot if you ask me. BTW I agree that not all darkpsy artists are dark. Furious, Kashyyyk, Cosmo and co. are more fx madness than darkpsy. But they obviously have more in common with the traditional darkpsy sound than other subgenres, so calling them darkpsy ain't such a big deal. Just my 2 cents.

Why the term darkpsy falls short describing the actual music? The vast majority of darkpsy tracks are dark and psy=darkpsy.

I guess ziptnf is looking for tracks that belong in the darkpsy subgenre and not for dark psytrance (no matter if they are darker than darkpsy).

Sator Arepo, IKPENG, Silent Horror, Gloomy Phantom, Necropsycho.

A very old track I've made when I worked mostly with automations

+1 No I mean Pleiadians-Family Of Light and I mean the track not the album. It's beyond words.

You know I always believed that the last 1200 Mics was a joke. I mean a real joke. Something like a parody. I refuse to believe that someone would make such ubercheesy music just because he likes it. Maybe Alien Jesus is a practical joke by GMS and Olli and right now they're laughing with our comments? I mean ok, gms have a criminal past, but Olli's music no matter how cheesy has been it still has some dignity.

IMO the most intelligent psytrack ever made is Pleiadians-Family Of Light.

I look worse than this guy and this is why I wouldn't put my face on a cover.

Can't think of a specific track right now, but Psychoz tracks are real dark psytrance. Also Silent Enemy album Diabolic combines both power and darkness.

The nose. My God the nose! Lame guys trying to be cool?

In soviet russia the cover designs you!

Ok we have a topic about bad covers, but what if you had to choose THE worst one? Personally after I've seen cheesy stuff, gangsta wannabes, naked chicks, guys in akward-gay poses, Yahel, Astrix's infamous 'take me now' cover and so many horrible stuff I came to the conclusion that THE worst cover in psytrance history (although the music is not psy at all, but it's been sold from psytrance shops) is....*drumroll* It gets me everytime. And by gets me I mean I puke in my mouth. Yours? You have to choose one. THE worst one.