ouroboros

using "anything", "nothing" or "zero" is not out of place when we are discussing the quantifiable aspects of religion. i can not, will not and do not tolerate it. you are asking me to "tolerate" the single most destructive, violent, oppressive, and insidious concept mankind has ever devised. i see religion as the worst cancer on society that has ever been, why would i ever consider tolerating it?

i dont see what your examples have to do with my statement. name one benefit that religion provides that can not be had without it.

you are correct that saying something isnt doesnt make it so and vice versa. however there is not one single shred of evidence in the entire history of mankind to support any religion. so, if you accept that basing beliefs in factual, observable, and demonstrable information is a prudent way to live, as i do, then there is no way to support religions of any kind. and im not even counting the many and varied evils in the world that are directly caused by religion. there is zero difference between any religions practiced today and the countless dead religions from the past. in another 5000 years people will be talking about jesus and mohamad, and shiva, and any other religious figures the same way we talk about zeus and thor and osiris now. just some silly stories people believed in back when they didnt know any better. it just saddens me that it will take that long.

you are confusing religion with other things here. "some sort of revelation" is not religion. philosophy, way of thinking, and moral codes are not religion. religion is by definition a specific set of beliefs and practices. it is not "some sort of revelation" or a "philosophy". and no its not being picky, thats the point. religion does not and is not intended to help anyone understand the meaning of anything. it is a set of instructions and stories that stifles any understanding of anything. how can it help people understand when its entire purpose is to give people made up answers and reasons for things with the explicit instruction that it is never to be questioned or thought about? religion in fact does the exact opposite of what you suggest, it hinders understanding and prevents people from reaching their full potential.

1. i didnt say i think humans are good and religion is bad. there is no correlation between the two so i would never make such a comparison. 2. i didnt say fracis would have done it...i said he COULD have done it. neither of us can say what he would have done. my point is that religion was not required to do the things he did. 3. yes...people are people and some of them will always do bad things. however, religion has never, i repeat NEVER made a bad person not do bad things. it has however, countless times over the millena, caused good people to do horrible horrible things. i repeat...there is nothing good that religion provides that humans cant provide for themselves, in a more efficient, lasting, and genuine way. there are however plenty of awful things that religion provides that arent so easily accomplished via other means.

thats not how karma works. in buddhism, karma is not something that directly affects your life now. your actions in this life will affect you in the next one. karma isnt some sort of immediate punishment/reward system. your example of having bad things happen to you if you do bad things is easily explained. lets say joe is an ass hole, he treats people like shit all the time. one day joe notices that bad things keep happening to him...the simple explanation is that because joe is an ass hole and isnt very nice to people...people arent very nice to him in return. its almost common knowledge that you get in return what you put out. if you are a positive person then you well get positive things back, if you are a negative person, youll get negative things back. theres nothing supernatural about it, its simply a function of life. if you are a caring person who helps people when they need it...then people will be more likely to help you when you need it. if you are cruel and unkind to people, then people will be more likely to be cruel and unkind to you. that is not karma

st francis could just as easily have done what he did simply because it was a good thing to do. see thats a major issue i have with religion and spirituality. it dis-empowers people. his religious beliefs didnt do the things he did, HE did them. his religious beliefs were superfluous. there is nothing religion provides humanity that humanity couldnt provide for itself, and probably do a better job of it. on the flip side of that religion is directly responsible for good people doing horrible things. it has never made horrible people do good things. but this thread isnt about religion...its about the belief in a god or gods. religion stems from such belief, obviously, and my sentiment still stands. there is absolutely zero reason to believe in any gods. which is why its called having faith, as faith is explicitly the belief in something for which you have no reason to believe. i dont have faith...in anything. i see no value in it. i see no use for it. i see nothing which leads me to the conclusion that faith is something any human being should have about anything ever. especially when they are going to use that faith to belive in something which will shape the very way they live their life, and ultimately effect me personally. if i believe something, i have a reason. the world we live in has been at war for millennia, fulled almost exclusively by primitive superstition passed down generation to generation like some kind of cognitive virus. superstitions created by illiterate goat herders and frightened old men in a feeble attempt to gain some semblance of control over their environment. it has no value to us as a species and only holds us back. just imagine how wonderful a world we could live in if people just lived their lives as if it was all they had. no worrying about offending a vengeful god, no hatred towards others because they arent pious enough, no judging people based on such meaningless things like what kind of food they like to eat or who they like to fuck. how much more precious does our time here become once we see that its probably all we get?

you can stop right there.

"denying everything that is connected to god"... such as? "Also with telepathy, scientists explain how telepathy can´t be possible but don`t deal with the events that happened in the past and showed, how some people were able to notice things with remote viewing." there are exactly zero instances of proven remote viewing.

i mean one of the most influential religious books in history explains it all right in the very first part...adam and eve were "thrown" out of eden after eating from the tree of knowledge. seems pretty obvious what that means to me. once acquiring knowledge, one is no longer capable of existing in a world where god can protect (or harm) you. you are cast out into the universe on your own, and realize thats where you were all along the knowledge itself is what expels us from living a life in which a god is ever present and controlling our lives...we learn the truth.

a belief isnt "generated", its a conscious decision one makes. you either accept or reject an idea as having merit based on the information you have. your brain doesnt just pump out beliefs from some kind of belief gland...they are thoughts and ideas formed from observations and and other outside information.

well, the numbers say differently. dont get me wrong, im not suggesting that spiritual people are stupid, im suggesting, the more intelligent and educated a person is, the more difficult it becomes for them to hold on to such beliefs.

now this i 100% agree with, in fact id say not having a high degree of intelligence or book smarts makes it a whole lot easier.

yeah id like to hear about that as well. as far as i understand, there arent any "gaps", and the differences are mostly related to regular plain old genes that one species has and the other does not. nothing "alien" or "bizarre looking" about them at all.

well you cant just go around making up definitions for things. for something to be a god it would by definition need to be supernatural, not just too advanced for your understanding. and you seem to be adding quite a bit of completely unrelated (and seemingly random) things, such as morality or constructive/destructive potential ratios. im sorry man but i dont understand what youre on about at all. being a god isnt subjective, either an entity is or is not a god. how can such criteria possibly be of any importance? why "MUST" the creation/destructive potential be at a qualifying ratio? where did you come up with this requirement? i am a human being simply because i am, not because i meet some arbitrary set of parameters. similarly a god would be a god simply because it IS one. a god does not have to "qualify" as one (as you put it). what makes you think, if you believe there could be gods, that they cant have destructive power greater than creative power? i will reiterate a point because its important, a god by definition is supernatural. i.e. it exists outside of nature. however you want to spin multi dimensions, or alternate universes, or whatever...if any of those things exist, they still exist in our natural universe. advanced aliens still need to follow the laws of physics, even if theyve learned how to do things you or i could not understand, thus making them, by definition...not gods.

while i find that idea to be entirely and utterly unbelievable...they didnt "create" from nothing...they altered preexisting dna, so again, were back to the realm of what we can already do now...and so ill ask again...are we gods? does simply having the ability to create make one a god? i have a daughter...am i her god?

no, they would just be creators. and are they just advanced enough to have done it...or did they actually do it? humans are advanced enough to and actually do create new life forms...does that make us "gods" to those life forms?

hmmm....im about as hardcore of an atheist as youre likely to meet. being that as it is, i know and converse with like minded people. i have never met or heard of any person who identifies as an atheist who thinks anything even remotely like that. what does "no chance for anything grater than ourselves" even mean? it is generally atheists who promote the very ideas you are claiming they reject. i dont know too many atheists who feel as though there cant be other forms of life...in fact its just the opposite. its religious teachings and people than espouse the idea that humans are alone in the universe, created by god in his image as the supreme life form on earth. appearing as a god does not a god make. if i were to somehow go back in time 500 years with my cell phone, a car and a zippo...i too would "appear as a god". its meaningless.

i am a militant anti-theist. not only do i NOT believe in any gods, but i feel as though such beliefs and the religions that they spawn are the absolute worst threat humanity has ever known. at best religions and such superstitions thwart our progress as a society and species, and at worst they are the very root of almost all known evils.

it has been explained already. the goa/psy trance scene was never main stream, and its far far away from its prime. there isnt going to be much of an influx of new people, and its only going to dwindle faster and faster. how many new users do you think a punk forum gets? or a disco forum? entropy is a law of the universe.

thnx ...pm sent!

comments they are commenTs...with a fucking t. its driving me insane. please dude...comments. i know you wont listen to anything anyone says, but for the love of all things good and pure in the universe....its comments.

thnx everyone. heres hoping were all here to see another 12. anyone know if its at all possible to add my post count from my old ghost account? probably not...i think it was wiped out. for anyone whos curious...a long time ago (near when i first joined) i had an office job from which i would post to here. i created a ghost account to do that under so they couldnt connect some of my ummm...more nefarious posts from this account to me personally.