MikroMakro

https://www.junodownload.com/search/?q[all][]=psy+trance Juno download is worth a look as well.

I make 90pct of the sounds I use in my own tracks myself, including synthesis for kicks and bass lines so don't really waste much time preset browsing : ) I have always just preferred to try and work out existing sounds, the more the synthesize the better you get at it and reverse engineering and coming up with new sounds.

Stumbled on X-Dream fx zaps @ 02:05 the other day so thought I would share. Sylenth 1 (likely possible on any decent VA) Osc A - 2 voices, Stereo fully clockwise, Pulse wave for OSC A, Retrigger ON, LFO 1 assigned to Pitch A with a pulse wave/square LFO shape, Gain MAX, little value knob fully clockwise, LFO synced to 1/32 and add a touch of delay. No need to even select a filter. Press a key and bingo. I often stumble on sounds when synthesizing, quite fun when you think oh that's track X, Y or Z so that's how they did it. Sylenth1 is a very good solid synth for many of the VA type old school sounds.

Surprised and sad.. that was my place to buy tunes. I always found it a bit of a cheek at Beatport to be charged a rather high premium for a .wav file. So you can get the music as the artist intended... i.e. uncompressed quality. (just spotted the goa constrictor feels the same)

I guess the times we are living in makes us reflect more. Each individual needs something different from this music and there are no absolutes. That relates to producing it and listening to it. Everyone has there own opinion on any given track.The more I listen to the music and for context I listen when driving, dancing or at festivals the more I realize it has very little to do with sub genre or specifics relating to production being mainly or exclusively SFX/texture/filtered/harmonic based vs traditional melodic content. It has to do with the feeling any given track invokes in myself personally and this effect can be present in any combination of those elements. For me this music is pulse based drone to hypnotize and meditate (a space where there are no thoughts where the brain moves into a space beyond intellectual analysis) and on top of the kick and bass there is the potential to open this meditative mental space more deeply with subtle ways of shifting your feelings through whatever is added. This could be viewed as a fairly mature view relative to more hedonistic pursuits. I conclude that because of the ultimate personal meditative goal that the kick and bass need not change into the future as long as the same basic effect is produced. This will be a bit controversial because we have all read many opinions that psy trance is stuck in a rut and that it used the same kick and bass or sound set for X no. of years etc. etc. It is a bit like suggesting that traditional meditational mind state has not progressed since the ancients in India developed it. These intellectual processes don't have a place when I am dancing in the moment, they don't have a place in that headspace. Either the track invokes the desired result (trance) or not. Trance for myself when listening is coveted on the basis of whether it induces a trance like state or emotional cues / interesting mental or physical sensations when listening, connection with others not present through the mind state is a big one for me. (also possibly connected with the passage of time - highlighted by the absence of time in meditation... or sentimentality, sadness/beauty which are often linked. ) Whether a track was made yesterday with the newest VSTi and effects on the market or 20 years ago seems to have no bearing on the value of the track, either it has it or it does not. Another interesting question/thought, that is almost impossible to answer is how much a track objectively works in the genre versus the value you have projected onto a track from your own personal experiences, as a listener. Probably one that is rather impossible to quantify and probably for the best, as it allows us to have a mysterious connection with some specific tracks that resonate in special ways that could be unique to the individual. I appreciate my view is just an abstract of personal experience and that there are no absolutes so any view is as valid as any other and merely extends the depth of the music's value. What are the fundamentals for you ?

I would have a guess that the Aquila track uses Trilogy (at that time) seems that synth was released in 2002, very common synth for psy (now Trilian) or it is a straight sample with the filter and amp envelope embedded. Have a listen to Avalon's Teleport track (which is my fave track by Avalon). Almost identical just a little different tone/eq. I fairly frequently hear a track and hear the profile of the bass line note and think ahh.. that sounds like .... X's track.

Look up COGOA and IrisWolong on Youtube, superb collection of authentic videos from Goa, live videos footage on the beaches and other DJ sets etc. There is also a classic Maharashtra 1992 Goa party.

I just checked Dimension 5, I see yes they keep the pulse going.. I am a fan of breakdown but kick continues of late, why I am not sure it just evolved that way as I put the tracks together... the dancer has a choice The cue is there for a rest or carry nodding on, more versatile. I think you are right Recursion loop... maybe that plug in is the best thing since sliced bread, we should probably all try it on the next mix... but you can always try using your ears as well. I find if the KbBB is sounding radically different in headphones, or just plain wrong in the H/P's... compared to speakers (in a room you can trust pretty well) then most likely more work needs to be done to zone it in. It is not easy.. it is like running the gauntlet every time I start a track. All of this is whetting my appetite for a new kick and bass, it's been a while.

Nice topic, I like the lighter side, and I adore Human Blue.. took me best part of 3 years to track this down after hearing it one morning in a festival glade between the trees, the funny thing is I had been listening to Human Blue for a few years and did not realize it was his track.. the DJ was just playing CD-R's that had no labeling as I went and asked who did the track as there were only a few people chilling at the time.. I could not help but dance when it got going, nice and ethereal arp pad melody at the end...

Freedom is a great thing and choosing what your break should be like is your choice/intention as an artist : ) Personally speaking, breaks interrupt the trance state,... especially ones that make no musically timed sense, lol. When I dance the energy seemingly given almost feels like perpetual biological energy is being released (like more energy than you actual have available, actually giving you energy) And I mean by endogenous means. I think most people can moderate there own pace of dancing through a track and I know I can slow the flamboyant shapes I am throwing down when need be, ha ha. just standing and nodding to the beat with my eyes closed, taking in air or looking around at the collective experience and enjoying that. Of late I have been leaning towards subdued sections that maintain pulse... I enjoy being lost in a moment and the pulse is the focus that brings that state into being. Literally do what you think works though, there are many ways to do everything, this music is awesome, nothing else quite produces the effect of this music. I long for the days to be back at the parties, like we all do, till then there is the garden and a gaze to the horizon.

Thanks and the great thing with psy trance in all its guises is it is a very rich music, technically and culturally and there is a lot to learn and enjoy, it is nice and a privilege to be involved with something that can be limitless.

Following on from the "you need to use an oscilloscope" if you want your music to sound good on a big system. There is an element of truth in this, it is a very useful visual aid...as I mentioned it will help avoid anomalies that can cause sub cancellation and get you in the ball park. (avoid strange psychoacoustic effects that sound "odd" to the ear) One thing to know about some of the best PA systems. They are wide bandwidth, they have lots of headroom, they have low distortion and very good driver integration, superb transient response and if you are really lucky they are outdoors : ) Infinite bass traps to the sky ! (so you hear the sound system and not PA system and skewed response of a room, arguably perfect sound) Anything you play though them will sound better than a sound system that is fundamentally poorly designed (or in a terrible acoustic space, dropping 120dB of sub bass into a big room), under powered, poor frequency response, limited bandwidth, relatively high distortion (old/worn drivers and amps) lower tech, lower quality drivers, crossovers and build quality (poor cabs/ bad bracing/resonant cabs).... or just worn out since 20 years of playing out. The high headroom and low distortion is important because when you listen to many big artists there is variation in their output.... tonally. Some are more subby, some brighter, some have a little thick sound some a little thinner, some more saturated, some cleaner. There are many ways to sound good. Some of this is taste driven.. but to judge it correctly you need accuracy in the monitoring from the start. So my opinion is you can sound good on a big PA even if your kick and bass line is not so rocking. I have have danced to music from a fairly unknown artist and been very happy and enjoyed the sound (very much melody driven but not Goa) and kbbb.... only to find when I got home and listened, I found them meh (actually not very good at all IMO and compared objectively to a big artist well versed in great kbbb).... so not so great kick and bass after all. (The complete opposite of the premise of "Do you listen at the party on great sound systems?" ) So how did this phenomena happen ? You see at the party you are happy, having a great time, the music is loud and your adrenaline and endorphins are flowing. So maybe your overall impression is actually better than a cold hard objective listen on headphones or speakers at home. Remember other than phase alignment of the kick tail and bass note 1 (and potential cancellation of sub) an oscilloscope tells you very little about the spectral content of a kick and bass... sub content, mids and transients. (HPF or low shelf cut choices, harmonic EQ choices minimum or linear phase EQ choices - well ok if non linear phase then this will show up as a phase shift on the scope) but it does not suggest much about how much sub/bass/mids and tops do you have in your kbbb. All of these aspects are also very important to sounding good on those big PA systems. Some tracks have PLENTY of sub and some much less and both can sound good and drive a track along. What may well influence this more is ... am I aiming my mix to be as loud as the big releases when mastered. (Disclosure...I am professional mastering engineer) So sub amount given a PA system we shall call "The Reference PA" - A hypothetical flat PA system from 30Hz-20kHz outdoor with infinite bass traps to the clouds can be different depending on taste/ perceived volume choices / mistakes in monitoring. It is not just "use an oscilloscope and you will be guaranteed to sound good on a big system". There will come a time when more than 50pct of the people on the dance floor will think... woah... too subby or, bass seems light .... too much top end or... upper mids are making my ears hurt I am off to sit this out for a while etc. etc. This is to be avoided and ideally at the mixing stage. (even though the suggestion is about broad tonality of a release.) Also a note about how much sub, how much bass in the kick and bass... well I can tell you at least one sound system for psy trance I have heard was tuned more like D&B sound system with COLOSSAL sub bass... I mean over kill subs. So to coin the term "on a big sound system" there is not always a standard, as in if you want to sound good on a big sound system... there is no standard sound system for a start. There are multiple parameters that need to be precisely hitting "The middle path" to satisfy more than 50pct of the listeners. (not just a scope alignment) This can avoid the subby track sounding like thunder is striking the party on a system tuned with too much sub and a bass light track sounding like "Thin fest" on a system where the extra sub reinforcement was left in the PA hire warehouse. And as mentioned some artists have a thicker deep sub than others, this also relates to your bass line root note. I am all for this mixing style variation, it is a form of artistic difference that can maybe make different artists stand out a little more over an above their musicality differences. (maybe not the most deep of artistic differences, compared with synthesis, instrumentation choices, style, melody or more effects based psy, sub genre choice, melodic or sound effects based psy etc.).. but a choice nonetheless, notwithstanding mistakes caused from sub optimal listening conditions. Food for thought.

A bit more response.. Recursive I would say there is no set standard.. it could range from £500.00 studio monitors to £15,000.00 + of studio monitors, I heard Tristan say in a video he also has an actual PA system to test his tracks on... the room can be of various sizes and as far as I see online rather different levels of acoustic treatment from professional to a more humble treatment. I don't think there is any specific standard it will vary greatly. I guess it also depends if you use a sample or a synth, or if your label or mix engineer wants to change your bass line.. I think it can happen. (of late some bigger producers have been hiring a mix engineers - often a respected psy producer themselves) Astral...I am sure great bass lines can be made using Serum just not by me. It is the synth I have put the least effort into for bass lines. I never got the weight I wanted from it... maybe I am just using it wrong. You tend to stick with what you know.. I have plenty of options that seem to be faster and better to my ears. (as in I hear what I personally want to hear more easily). Each to their own and let's be thankful for that. Nothing wrong with loving the sound of vinyl.

I will just reply to Imba for now... in point order 1) Yes heard and dance to a lot of psy trance on big systems, the dancing is a big thing for me, at festivals and it is my daily exercise (ok not every day but regularly) typically Funktion 1 at festivals (5-8 a year although not this year of course). I have seen one artist "live" who seems to use Serum. I won't deny I am fortunate enough to have an exceptional personal listening situation, you could term it "audiophile". 2) Yes I agree with that for sure, I guess it does not resonate with everyone, actually that is pretty much impossible, not every track is your best and even it for yourself it may not at all be for listeners. I recall telling a mid level artist that tune X was probably one of the best psy trance tracks I have ever heard. He replies saying... oh I never even think about that one much. This must be the case for many many track, I find sometimes with 1 track of a compilation is superb. Resonance with a listener is an interesting thing. 3) EU and ST/MT have been doing this since Goa times, and yes they take that spirit with them now (both melody and sound design with remnants of classic Goa de-tuned saw leads in some of the leads) along with all the modern touches. 4) I like Burn in Noise a lot, my fave track is Loco, I will listen to his new material - I have been out of the loop for a few months with new releases. 5) Luckily I enjoy dancing, this helps a lot, I know what you mean about expectations, fine line between experimenting and a familiar formulation. This is for everyone to work out themselves. I don't know... drugs.. I can get a tingle all over listening and dancing in my garden sober... I think drug use which seems fairly moderated from what I see, rare to see open over the top use at festivals, people seem to be careful.. it probably just just extends the musics capabilities. Even drinking alcohol is a totally different thing with psy trance the context changes it radically. Speaking to people who are more experienced than you is a good thing... short breaks of some kinds seem fine..however I find breaks kill the meditative trance mood. Sometimes they are very very disturbing in fact especially if they drag on.... again this is our job to work out. PS I like your track Golden Times, great name as well. The last point is very difficult, it is very difficult to be objective about your own music and unless it is played out difficult to know... the risk I guess is people like the familiar so you just make the familiar ? Not sure, that is not where I am at really... I have had some positive feedback on unsolicited play outs and took a chance myself to get my music played on a sound system on Anjuna beach which was nice. Agreed, always do the best you can at that time.

I'll share some personal thoughts in relation to what has been discussed. I think there is a difference between clean sound and precise sound, they may however evolved together. Serum to me is clean and precise, it is the one synth I never used on bass line, I don't like the overly clinical texture and for whatever reason (maybe the envelopes) I just never got what I wanted from it. Many love it, and unsurprisingly their bass lines don't blow me away either, that is very much a taste thing though (and there are exceptions my last track had the cleanest bass I ever made so far, maybe even too clean ! (But you know these things happen in moments of production and you draw from them - my tracks are often technical exercises as well as music). As synth for leads for sure Serum has its place, it's a fantastic synth. Maybe I need to spend time adjusting the waveform as Astral Projection mentions. Precision for me is the timing element, for me this is FAR from soulless, in fact this "auditory faculty confusing" precision is a big part of the psycho acoustic element that messes with your ears/brain. The timing is so precise it creates ambiguity at the edges of human timing perception and allows multiple interesting rhythms to be presented to the ears (often depending on spectral focus). It creates an effect you cannot quite explain in words, for me it is no surprise this evolved in this music, it is quite fitting. I have not seen this on an oscilloscope. I am not sure clean sound is always soul-less, as melody and the track itself can counter that for me. I do however understand the generalization (clean, cold, clinical, too controlled, too tight etc.) I think that sound is to be celebrated as much as analogue Goa. What we have is the best of both worlds, maybe as an artist you have the perfect situation to calibrate that sound for your own unique ends ? In my humble opinion, no one has produced a thicker fatter more saturated sound than Electric Universe, check out Mystical experiences / Millenia.. now that is a sound ! 20+ years of artistic experience worth. His thick powerful kick and bass are quite unique as well, err.. when did you hear a snare smack you like that last (Millenia)? That will punch holes in your walls. I also love Mad Tribe Space Tribe (try Tuned in perfectly that is in my top 10 bass lines, deep thick chugging lumps of psy trance bass) for the punky trashy w-i-d-e sound, it's wild.. it is precise where it needs to be but the mixes have not controlled every tiny last detail that gives it a wilder sound than most. These artists are broadly singing from the same hymn sheet for me, EU just has a slightly thicker presentation in the leads slightly less wide, neither subscribe to the clean kick and bass (or any of the sounds) Much is spoken about saturation, it is very difficult to do well from plug ins IMO. Like pretty much everything about psy trance... and that is why it remains one of the most demanding, challenging and interesting dance music forms ( and that is before you even consider the history and culture) Psy trance is in a rather unique position, it champions technology and has pushed it to new areas and yet is a very visceral and physically attractive sound for humans. It resonates.. no one forgets psy trance even if it scared the living days out of you as a person who does not get it. It touches something, something some people don't want to be touched and for others it releases a feeling of exhilaration and excitement no other music can. For all its hard technical edge it draws people in and ignites interesting human responses and interactions. CD or vinyl, personally give me CD/wav files any day.. it does not wear out (and then becomes grossly distorted and the extreme top end wears out and disappears pretty quick no longer representing the artists original intentions) You can master any music to have the dynamics of vinyl with ease. It's just that no one does. I like how this topic broadened into many interesting areas.

Yes I see what you mean in terms of trying to date origins but people had access to VSTi samplers for a long while, once you had dialed in the tonality via a synth you could always trigger an individual bass note in the familiar pattern using a sampler. NI Kontakt has been around since 2002, and DAW audio sequencing before that.

@AstralSphynx last night in bed I also was thinking about this. I was more thinking of how long was this common knowledge to well known artists before us lot lol, saw the YT vids...I am fairly sure the first oscilloscope vid I saw was the Sonic Elyisum one. I did wonder how long before this (or similar videos) this info was known about. Also I suspect that matched kick and bass samples that were already "locked in" for tempo/key were available to those who knew someone who knew someone so to speak. I imagine some serious artists were doing this in good rooms/speakers before the oscilloscope use became apparent online. I think you mean Sylenth1's oscillator phase reset/retrigger which is different from phase alignment of kick tail to bass note 1, (using delay or negative delay). That is a pre-requisite for any type of phase alignment in psy bass, without the osc retrig stability you cannot even begin..Without the phase retrig, you end up with an unstable bass which sounds nothing like psy trance bass as we know it today.

It will sound like a swerve but working out which synth is best for you will be an important part of honing your hearing. I am fairly sure every soft synth out there has been used at some point in the last 20 years. I am fortunate to have a good monitoring situation, you may need to rely more on visual aids if you don't. "It's very simple if you know what you are looking for and what you want too achive." That is not my experience personally, every time feel pretty new to me, similar challenges each time with a progressive knowledge base track by track, actually a tick box of what to double check and make sure of each time, reducing mistakes is one of the the keys to progress. The first words understate the complexity of the latter words. I guess everyone makes their own path.

I am not the overseer of all psy trance kick and bass but I know a few bits and bobs. Just as well as every time I make a track I use different synths different processing and I enjoy that, at least 5 different bass synths (I like Bazzism and Kick2 equally for different reasons). There is no easy answer, there is no.... do X, Y and Z and then you have great kick and bass. (How many times did you follow the many tutorials and got to the end thinking it sounds nothing like the video !) Never think of this as bass alone or kick alone, both affect the character of the overlap, they are as one (and as far as phase goes the kick is dropping in pitch so phase will be aligned for what? one or 2 cycles ?). No one will see your oscilloscope or phase alignment tool on the dance floor or when they listen to your track. Visual tools are however useful, for myself personally as a second check or once thing start sounding just about right. Phase is 1 parameter of many interdependent parameters, it is important, it stops odd psychoacoustic effects and inconsistent sound and cancellation of sub. So 4-5 hours roughly to get something just about acceptable usually, that is synthesizing the kick and the bass line. Sometimes I will commit to audio and sometimes not, some synths do a better job than others in this regards. I spend more time on the listening for a few days, thinking... "Has this invoked the spirit of the last 2 decades of this music ? " more than I look at an oscilloscope. I test a kick and bass (and then snare and hat) at least 3-5 times on a different day deliberating if I have the "feel and effect" right before I will build a track on top. And on more than one occasion I scrap the entire kick and bass and start again because I have not achieved my goal or feel I can do better or the effect I wanted was absent. If kick and bass was just aligning phase up everyone's kick and bass would be great and probably sound the same right ? Clearly this is not the case. In my experience perception of good kick and bass varies a fair bit between producers. If we all listed our top 3 kick and basses the variation would likely be all over the place... this alone makes nonsense of it being a purely technical exercise. All the tools and techniques on YouTube etc. are very useful but in the end I think once you have all the techniques, in themselves a big job to absorb, you are still on your own in that final say so of .. if this what I want and is this good enough for me and my aspirations/goals. If it is sounding right and working everywhere you play it on headphones and speakers you are golden. And there is no shame in using a sample either, some people's idea of creativity and fun is not making their own kick and bass, no one sees your sampler or synth on the dance floor. Using synths is more of a personal technical challenge / feeling of satisfaction after release for me, so far no bass samples used. Just like becoming good at anything in life, you learn, apply, test and experiment, you may make less than stellar kick and bass initially but slowly you refine and through multiple experiments it starts to come together more consistently and quickly because you evolve out errors in your methodology, you also get an aural memory for what good kick and bass is to you personally.

The ATARI 1040 STE's (maybe Amiga's) of the time was typically only triggering the MIDI sequence hardware synths played. The Mackie 24/8/2 - 32/8/2 were the desks to aim for at home project level, there were many others... but studios like those at Dragonfly Records may have had bigger channel counts and something like an AMEK or a A+H Sabre, something along these lines. I guess most were played back and DAT captured MIDI sequences, synths and samplers. So you were limited by how many synths you had and how many stereo effects returns were wired to dedicated effects returns (usually you had 4 dedicated stereo returns on a project desk) of stereo pairs of channels. Unless you multi-tracked them to tape and re-used your synths for different lead lines. DAT's are just 2 channel stereo mix recorders.

The sound of 2001/2005 is available in the software environment, much could be related to free running chorus/effects/slight MIDI inconsistency etc. People could not surgically EQ every sound source to "perfection" on a desk, there was 1 band with Q if you were lucky and the Q of any EQ was not as tight as you can get it in modern software, quality highly controllable dynamic control was in short supply, analogue noise floor was a thing. In 2020 people choose precision which is available if required in a DAW, this comes from the ground up so the kick and bass sets the precedent. Couple this with highest possible perceived volume mastering and the sound is evidently not the same. I have to say I like quite a lot of it myself, but I also like the much of the older sound as well. But you can hear some problems as well..some leads with piercing harshness, same with hats and cymbals. We are entitled to miss elements of it but I don't think it will possible to go backwards, or really serve any purpose. Good tracks are still being made.

Complex subject, complex melody or no complex melody, musical theory or no musical theory. Personally either complex melodic or not complex melodic tracks either have it or they don't. This is foremost dance music, its origins kicking up red laterite dust on the Goan shore line, so we can expect complex melody to have a second place to groove and atmosphere (which is often created using simple melody). Of close second importance this is trance music, the goal is to hypnotize, greater complexity melodically or with sonic layers tends to retract from this potential. I know from experience here. There are a few artists whose sound design and rhythmic programming / production discriminatory skill and attention to minuscule sonic detail stands out a cut above others IMO. Their music is as un-melodic as it could be but it is awesome and has the "spirit". I suspect this comes from immersion in the culture of Goa, living it ! You cannot intellectualize that. However, I do think melody is largely what makes tracks stand out in lieu of extremely skilled rhythmic sound design. But there is a fine line as this music is largely based around the Phrygian mode and this both limits and also gives it a worthy (and historic) home, this scale alone gives the mood, more or less dark/moody/intense/slightly eastern. So ultimately, to me personally it comes down to feel, it either has the something "Je ne sais quoi" or does not. How you got there or your knowledge does not mean very much to me, compared to how did I feel ? Traditional intellect has little place in the spiritual, consciousness expanding origins of this music. To use a rather nebulous word, for myself either a track imbues the spirit or not. What is that spirit if we "word" it ? Maybe a sense of openness, depth, space, intrigue, mystery, expanse, drive, hypnosis, sentiment, magic, togetherness, wonder, connected-ness, timeless-ness, distance, meditative focus on the moment, now. I think it is very difficult to gain the interest of those who solely or predominantly enjoy music from 25-15 years ago, you cannot garner favour against emotional sentimentality attached to memory, that is very powerful force. (even making retro tracks). Trying to make something new to penetrate the arena of sacred memories will be very difficult. (and I say that with respect as all of a certain age have them) I seemingly have more plays of my overtly retro sounding tracks than more modern sounding ones. Maybe it is because I have had some vision based concept for them and I conveyed it well and it resonated with more people. Whilst the O.P. made interesting points in his video I think he missed the aspect that extreme forms of music of any genre always tend to have their draw. Hi-Tech is not generally for me, but as it can be viewed as the extreme end of psy it will surely always have some following. I don't think psy trance conforms to the "trends" of other styles of dance music. It self propels through new experiences and advancement of the surrounding events and visual efforts, psy trance delivers a specific vibration and culture, no other genre encompasses this unique origin and international depth. By and large you know what you are going to get. To this end it is a scene like no other. Let people follow their own ways, you make this music because you love to, whatever happens is just part of the bigger flow, water finds its natural resting place. Do your thing for your little corner of the scene, be true to your little contribution. Life is short, put energy in with those and what resonates with your input. The rest will be a waste of energy.