fluorosis

Sounds good, like an updated Full-On MFG Bleyage... as in Johann? or am I reaching/recycling too hard

If it sounds lush and complete, I tend to like it. I have preferences, of course. (not big on close intervals way down low. Keep it at 5th and octave and THEN add some other notes...) Modally, they are all available, but you can't really switch tonic notes too often, but by all means, give us the 5th mode of the melodic minor or WHATEVER, feel something. No one said it had to have ALL THE NOTES always etc... it's more like some alternatings stacks of notes to move around between, to not always feel so STATIC. IMO, the number one issue with electronica, as music, is the feeling of static lack of motion, like a 1 chord song. Plus, an inversion is already a different sounding chord, in modal-land It's best not to get muddy, sure, but that's often due to trying to shoehorn the wrong bits where they aren't welcome, or too much in one bite, etc... I guess my dream concept I didn't hear yet (and please don't tell me to make it, I'm allowed to bitch and moan about the current state of trance like a consumer, lol): always feeling like it's moving, harmonically, and yet feeling like there's some "closing" of a phrase, like a cadence, and so there's roots and feeling grounded, but I'm not bored. The best modal piano jazz does this for me, for example. There's lovely bands out there too: Anyone remember "Jah Levi World Fusion Project"?

I suppose I am accidentally saying that the "melodic" full-on of the early 2000's wasn't melodic enough for my goa tastes. I suppose that I am saying that modern full-on only made this split more evident. Even "melodic" stuff like Avalon typically just has a few accent notes on the end of a rather dry production-heavy passage of banging percussion bassline and sound effects like whooshes, swooshes, crashes, and all the requisite single-note "stabs" of gritty "modern" synths so you know it's psy, but they typically only reinforce the bassline main tonic note, not making any harmony or melody. Modern daytime sounds rather night-time, and that's not even on a "darkpsy" party! Only the bassline remains groovier. but that Mr. Peculiar sounds rather contemporary in a way, almost like a harbinger of things to come... I suppose I am suggesting that folks have copied him a bit, lol it's funny. I've just put "Alien Pump" by Tandu on, and it's mostly gritty sounds, but somehow i patiently await it's buildups to get swept away like a wave washes a plastic coke bottle ashore... and it's wailing (mildly ridiculous) melody at the end is a fitting passionate crown to such a journey through a steel scrapyard where leaf-spring pterodactyles gimble and gyre amongs the mimsy waves, outgrabe. @recursion loop yeah, mostly good stuff from Vertigo for about a decade now, ever since they split off from that generic insomnia/deja-vu sound that became the dark side and they went more... it's not quite Suomi, but it's not full-on really... but i tend to like quite a lot of their stuff, I think they released Trold and such too.

Sorry, no, I didn't mean Mr. Peculiar, I must have missed that here in this thread. Mr. Peculiar is something *else*, quite nice at the time it came out. It was quite special, actually. I wouldn't put it into a box with full-on nor minimal. What's interesting here is that he plays a lot of harmony with the pad and string sounds, the fluffy cloud chords, not too much with overt "loud sawtooth lead melodies played on a nord lead goddammit!" Proper "melodic" psy? I dunno, "People can Fly" ? There's a lot of stuff that was inspiring as hell on a party once-upon-a-time but doesn't stand the light of day today as "melodic"... like "we created our own happiness"... there's this vague kinda sorta melody, but mostly it's just the acid sounds doing that same tonic main bassline note. (panic in paradise is still rather inspiring feeling, although it's not complex. none of this stuff is, musically speaking) Do you remember how when the melodies came "back" with full-on after minimal and tech-trance that they WERE simplified down into club melodies? I mean, Astrix and all this, it's more stripped down than goa-psy... it's more about the production already. I'm trying to point out that the wrong-road we started on happened already with the early 2000's full-on... it was ALREADY prioritizing production over melodic content. I guess you could say that we generally, as a scene, focus too much on production and too little on the musical ideas. purely abstract sound design can be a wicked layer (Prana and Psychopod were both quite good at this) but if it's the only music always? that's techno, lol

Ah yes, Armageddon Dildo and such.... I just see that as a natural pop music product for teutonic places.... a bit like the inevitability of Rammstein... back to that Laurel Canyon Conspiracy Book, there's similar stories about The CIA and The Scorpions etc, but I digress... One always has to wonder what cultural values one supports and which cultural values are being promoted by which art and which scenes. I have seen numerous conspiracies that allege that basically the hippie psychedelic scene was deliberately washed with speed coke and heroin by forces (hells angels, mafia, etc) deliberately invited in by CIA and/or FBI operations, such AS MKUltra, but our Laurel Canyon book author is an absolute expert at tying in ALL the little details to make his book nice, "bluebird = old code name for mkultra, david crosby, rich brat, coincidentally puts out song by that name!" etc... worthy of a ten-strip of acid contemplation, lol... but still, quite a reach, funny book though. I'd rather liked an old tale in which Elvis and Jim Morrison and such were all on this secret ranch in retirement after having played their acting roles...

good point, I've not read this book you speak of, but it sounds great, I'll have to read it. ah. the thematic material of industrial and EBM lyrics, lol...

True, something happened about a decade back... all the "day" music started sounding like "night" music but with a groovy bassline and lower tempos. I miss music with all the parts. I'm not keen on this "but we explicitly leave the chocolate sauce out of our genre" style things... As far as the examples given above, i don't find them melodic in the slightest. Those of us who were there KNOW, when full-on came BACK to melodies after minimal and tech trance, they weren't the same kind of goa melodies. They were "club melodies" and I put much of the early 2000's so-called-melodic in this box.

I have more conspiracy theories if you want to hear them I had one the other day where cartels were deliberately paying large event organizers to book naff live-acts and popularize them so as to drive away all the sensible types and encourage the remaining lot to take dodgy powdered things and put them up their noses... nothing like bad music to drive you to hard drugs, lol

Sorry, back to the topic. "When first darkpsy?" which is a question that totally ignores our EDM/industrial roots. Dark was there since day 1. It's more a question of "when was the first not-naff melody created in techno-land" which I'll argue has yet to occur Anyone complaining about Xenomorph song titles should look at some 80's Industrial album covers and read their lyrics. Besides Mark Petricks (I think?) interest/belief in Gnostic mysticism, there's the fact that the entire "counter-cultural" narrative of art since Rock-n-Roll is predicated on pointing out the actual devil worship of our Molochian system, see Fritz Lang's "Metropolis" (famous film)... we feed people, wildlife, and our entire planet to capitalism whole like a blood sacrifice. So, back to the question, I remember loads before Xenomorph... of COURSE "night trance" had more than just gear noises going on back then, because trance as a genre wasn't split into 20 fragments. (Sandman "Witchcraft" being one epic album, UX Ultimate Experience, someone pointed out later stuff like Darshan, etc...) I have my OWN pet theory that all this rave-genre-segmentation was deliberately exploited by various nations intel agencies in a sort of "Tower of Babel" concept piece, to keep us all from getting together and ruling the planet with peace love and acid whaddya say? Fits a trancers overly-self-important view of trances role in the world, check... Of course my better half knows that we are just cunty by nature...

All these boxes are unfortunate. I separate by artist, not genre. A good artist often makes several genres or even plays instruments in bands and stuff...The genre thing is annotating after-the-fact about specific releases. To put a human being in a box is only sometimes warranted (when they go into that box as their exclusive box, declare it their territory, and don't ever fit into other boxes.) Basically, I've been disappointed by box-like-thinking across the festival social spectrum, and I've been surprised by open minds in "mainstream" contexts, so act psychedelic if you claim to be it = my take on it. I'll judge you by what you act like, lol... But yeah, I've heard good and bad stuff for about 30 years now, but the funny thing is, despite the hype, there's some one-trick-pony's out there and you can tell that they are phony baloney ponies, not naming any names here... (cough cough, certainly no one using names from dead great composers. no hubris there) But i've heard more than my fair share of "it's only the tonic note over and over" goa trance that is melodic for morons, just as I've heard my fair share of "but every sound is edgy, where is the contrast? sounds like razor-blade-spaghetti-bolognese" Sorry, (engages polite-speak filter) I mean to say, there's gems in every box, you just only find like 1 a year, typically....

sorry, i can't seem to figure out to how to directly reply to a comment... true, although that seems a bit stuck too now since it's all a bit neurofunk 2000, sound-palette-wise, which isn't a bad thing, but it's also stuck a bit IMO. As far as newish electronica, I found afro-house to be kinda interesting and pleasant. There's lots of interesting rhythms intermixed.

Thank you! Interesting and precisely what the doctor ordered. I like it all, each for their own reasons. (this is in reference to the 3 clips shared above. all have something vaguely psychedelic trance related about them but they are all different sides of the ingredients and all quite powerful and visual as well)

Like, SERIOUSLY! I'm helpless and uninspired. Try hard. Come on. Blow my mind, show me what you've got. Pull a genre out of your arse or something. Is there some cool new secret scene everyone but moi knows about and is hiding? (I see those choccie biccies under your pillow...)

"The myth of progress" It's just changing fashions. There's been no linear "development" of the musical genre and it's sub-genres. The attention span of a fruit fly leads to jumping around willy-nilly with no regard towards developing, deepening, enriching existing themes, but just wholesale replacement with a "new" equally vapid superficial "style". People say they like this or that genre, rather than enjoying the work of a thoughtful artist across a spectrum of styles. It's all a bit sad that way, actually. A bunch of template-copy-cats pretending that their new template supercedes intelligent thoughtful structures. There's absolutely no reason to discount music of an entire decade due to 'stylistic' faddish "clothing", IMO My guess is that some 90's psychedelic trance would sound rather alternative to many of the cookie-cutter modern sounds, especially to ears that never had heard it before.

ah, i was showing a few different harmonic movements over the same riff/bassline... yes I agree, it's all a bit too muddled...i was initially going to try to make it like "comparisons" basically, i have a new respect for anyone able to carry ideas through a whole track, lol...