Guest Oriental Elf Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 Some time ago I couldn't even stand progressive, but nowadays I like it a lot. But a friend of mine (who doesn't like it at all) claims that progressive is already commercial music and that it isn't and has never been underground at all... Is that true? Because I don't think so... But maybe there's a difference between 'progressive trance' and 'progressive psytrance'... Can somebody please help me out? xxx Elf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Protex Midget Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 I think that this has been discussed many times, but... Anyway, progressive trance is usualy commercial stuff like Paul Van Dyk, Tiesto Sven Vath. This is not at all psytrance! now, progressive psytrance used to be another word for Minimal-psy, but today it means dark psytrance with techno influences ( i call it Psy-Tech )... Example: The delta (new stuff), Authentik, Auricular... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dam10n Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 Organic Records call their stuff progressive psytrance but it's not like protex described... kinda smoother and tecchy with a bit more bounce to the ounce. Whatever the @!#$ that means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lurk Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 There certainly is a difference. Progressive Trance is the sound pioneered by DJ's such as Danny Howells, John Digweed and Dave Seaman; its crisp, clean, well produced, and quite a lot of people here would call it cheesy I quite like some of it, in small doses. Its generally made for the mass market, although don't get it confused with club trance. Progressive Psytrance is the stuff thats being made by acts like S-Range, Ticon and Son Kite, its crisp, clean well produced, and quite a lot of people here would call it minimal and boring ;o) I quite like some of it, in small doses. Its generally made for scandanavian types who don't have nearly enough daylight during winter ;o)) Hope that clears it up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lurk Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 Dam10n, from what i've heard of the new oraganic stuff, it seems to be a bit of a cross between what I have just described above ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Setsuko Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 he he Oriental ☻ ... great to see you over here ... this is a delicate subject , especially when the full-on freak will enter this ... btw , imo nowadays commercial trance (dance) is very close to the full-on (many 303's - kickbasses and similar basslines) but then the progressive psytrance is close to techno (but when i listen to pure techno i get a headache every single time ) ... and last but not least , the progressive sound is extremely close to the club-house ....( but you should know goa has it's influences in acidhouse) ... In America , the progressive sound is equal to the candy-ravers community (i hope we'll never go through that phase) you know what ? don't matter , just enjoy this new progressive psytrance released nowadays and all the rest doesn't matter at all . ... but commercial in a way of becoming rich with progressive sound (no no no ) you still can hear that this particular kind of music is made with the heart and the love for electronic music greetings ☻ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lurk Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 hahahaha, no-one has given the same 2 definitions so far ;o)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dam10n Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 lurk, you're right about the organic thing. kinda groovy... a couple of the system beat tunes (chris organic side project) are awesome and would fit in the danny howells side of things as well as a more psy context. never the same 2 explanations - well it's all subjective really. I remember banging on about a new style of music called hard beat years ago that had come out of dream house (remember that?!?). Hard beat labels then were Eve and Nukleuz, who then went on of course to redefine progressive, club and hard trance. So it's all foo f***ing circular to say anything sensible about! Just nod and pretend to understand, thass what I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lurk Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 *nods and pretends to understand* ;o)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Slidingtrancer Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 I agree with Lurks definition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tentwins Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 Progressive used to be an underground sound with DJ's such as Digweed and Sasha as the best exponent, always playing and promoting unkown and great quality music, and at the forefront of the scene. Progressive is genre that I like a lot but I can say that is more commercial than psychedelic trance. There is a lot of shite like Tiesto and many other DJ's that play commercial stuff and are chasing $$$$$$. Nowadays, progressive has stagnated because producers have made this genre boring by making things too dark and too minimal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mijis Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 Good progressive : Sasha , digweed , Seaman , pappa , howells Cheese progressive : Paul Van dyk , tiesto , oakenfold (sometimes) Good psyprogressive : Son kite , tarsis , sbk , ticon , Cosma etc etc Cheese psyprogressive : almost every Israeli psy producer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mijis Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 Good progressive : Sasha , digweed , Seaman , pappa , howells Cheese progressive : Paul Van dyk , tiesto , oakenfold (sometimes) Good psyprogressive : Son kite , tarsis , sbk , ticon , Cosma etc etc Cheese psyprogressive : almost every Israeli psy producer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Syre Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 wrong wrong, progressive psy is far from commercial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kadafi Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 ... no way... When i say the word Goa-party to a bunch of 'normal' people, 2/10 of them will know more or less what I'm talking about... "those trippy raveswith lots of freaks, right?!" But when i say the words Progressive+psychedelic+trance... 9,9999/10 will go "huh??? what was that?? never heard about it... is it new??"..... hèhè.... :-p ... this is of course because it IS pretty new... but i think it's also a clear proof that the music isn't commercial at all!! (...yet...) ... or maybe this is just over here in Belgium... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouroboros Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 well i agree with the gist of what most people are saying. the only difference is i dont ever use the word "progressive" when refering to goa/psy music. progressive trance = sasha, digweed, van dyke ....me puking what some people call progressive psy/goa = son kite, atmos, m.o.s., noma, absolum, spirallianz, auricular, shiva chandra, ........ me dancing like a maniac with a stupid grin on my face. i call the later (if i must distinguish between styles) minimal goa/psy trance. in fact i dont call progressive trance trance at all. that whole webster hall club trance crap is not trance as far as im concerned. i call that stuff cheesy club music. (which i propose to be the official genre name for it.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strumpling Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 listen to the Ozric Tentacles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mijis Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 progressive rules too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mark Posted March 8, 2002 Share Posted March 8, 2002 Right on ouroboros, In Philly noone really listens to Psy at all. the scene here is very very small with few parties, Only one a month by Gain Mind. so Progressive trance here is Paul Van dyk, Oakenfold etc. The progressive psy is so far distinguished in sound non one would even now what they were hearing if they played it in clubs here. I go to NYC to Party normally. The club music which you hate so much makes me vomit too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mindbender Posted March 8, 2002 Share Posted March 8, 2002 Again, I won't use these terms to define, but rather to describe music... For me progressive trance is that digweed etc. stuff people here have already mentioned. I'm not into it, so when I talk of progressive, I mean progressive psytrance. Hell, there's everything progressive (from progressive house to progressive metal, like Dream Theatre, and a million "progressive" things in between). To me progressive (psy) means basically non-melodic psy or psy with subtle melodies, but always with quite complex soundscapes and textures and much evolution. In this style I would put things like Tarsis, Atmos, Reefer Decree, Haldolium, old MOS, Tromesa and so on... To me minimalistic (psy) is almost indinguishable from from progressive psy and the separation doesn't really matter... But if I'm going to explain it, it would less rich in sounds, evolution and textures than progressive. More repetetive, more simple. Often clearer than progressive. Stuff like Son Kite, new MOS, Noma and so on... To me tech-trance is technoish trance or trancey techno (whatever). This generally means shorter loops (psy is built largely on 32 beat loops), more techoish sounds, especially in the groove section. Here I could mention Spirallianz, Wizzy Noise, Authentik, new X-Dream, many 3D-Vision things... (I know these are quite varied examples, but techno is also a varied genre) In the end, I have to say that I don't think that any of the above examples truly fit in just one box. You call something with all three terms and be right... Or instead of using words like progressive, full-on or whatever, you could just as well describe something as "flouro-funkster-hard-driving-emotional-mind-@!#$-trance". It's just a description. I also think that minimal is a term that doesn't really fit in the psy scene, because I don't think there is any truly *minimalistic* psy. If you compare what minimalism means in other genres, like techno, minimalistic psy is about a million times more complex than minimalistic techno. In fact, normal techno is usually about as complex as minimal psy, maybe even less. Minimal techno usually consists of 1-,2- and 4-beat loops, maybe 5 instruments/sounds (hi-hat, snare, kick, bass synth and lead synth, maybe some cymbals) that have only one pattern per track and then these patterns come in one by one, volumes might change a bit, but the patterns are the same throughout. That is true minimalism and to me it also classified as crap. And some people love it. Lauri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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