Ok, ok, stop with the "evolving"!

[Guest bugbread]

Just a personal bug here, but stop with the "evolving" already! Psy is changing, it is developing, it is shifting. Minimal is different than full-on. But every time you say it's "evolving" it comes off as an insult to full-on fans. "Yeah, you listen to that old-school stuff, but I listen to more musically evolved music."

 

I don't like minimal, but I'm not gonna berate it either, so it would be nice if you minimal fans would show the same respect to full-on.

 

And, yes, I know it's not intended that way for the most part, and y'all don't mean bad by it. It just comes off that way when looked at from the other side.

[Guest --==MileS==--]

Yep fuzzy terminology when evolving basically means stripping prime elements...although I have to say minimal isn't that faitful to the goa roots with those German songtitles, clean and sober covers, no Bom in their thank word ea.

[Guest bugbread]

Just for the record, I realize that many of you may be using evolve in its sense of:

(2a) a process of change in a certain direction.

However, be aware that it may be read in the sense of

(2b)(1) a process of continuous change from a lower, simpler, or worse to a higher, more complex, or better state.

 

Thank you Webster.com

[Guest Elysium Project]

I would go so far to say that 99,9 % of most of the music that get's released these days got nothing at all to do with the original goa attitude and idea...That dosen't meant that some of the new progressive and minimalistic music is bad - not at all - but it do mean that goa is almost dead and barried! - I have a hard time seeing it survive when most of the oldtimers (like me) are running away screaming :-).....I know it's partly our fault for not fighting back :-) but hey come on we have allready used 10-12 years building the scene (with 1000's other people) and organising parties and frankly I know that many of teh "old timers" just don't have the energy to do it anymorer ...lol..wow we are indeeed getting older!

So when noone is around to fight for the goa scene then it it very natural that the young energetic people will create their own version - and that's what we are seeing today!

[Guest --==MileS==--]

I kinda doubt that the goa scene is dead and burried with forthcoming albums of Chi AD, Sandman, EP (hehe) and others. Probably the most succesful compils of last year were Assassi-Nations (with the very Goa-ish 1300 mics track which went down by storm) and 13 crystal skulls (which marked for example Doof's return to a more old skool sound)...

 

All we need are simply some killer albums to restore the faith cause there are literally masses waiting for a glorious return (just read the reviews and forum posts)...Shpongle's succes shows that stubborn Goaheads are not afraid of some healthy experiments in the melodic department. But without adequate releases the scene will die a slow and painful death...

 

Indeed the last 2 years were a letdown on the full-on release front and indeed minimal delivered far more and far more consistent material but not every artists jumped the bandwagon and there are as many avid minimal haters as lovers.I still don't think there is more anticipation for any minimal album than a new Hallucinogen...

 

Trust in (Psy)Trance...

[Otto Matta]

Bugbread - Just a quick question: If the genre reversed itself and began releasing a ton of Goa stuff, would you be more inclined to call it 'evolution?'

 

I wouldn't. Goa has been done. The only way Goa can now participate in evolution is to revitalize itself, but with a very new sound the next time around - which probably wouldn't sound much like the original Goa anyway.

 

Keep in mind that you as a person are evolving as well, and that it's perfectly natural to grow weary of a genre that no longer satisfies you in the way it used to. It's sure happening to me - I'm slowly but surely moving on from being completely obsessed with the Goa/Psy sound to feeling more satisfied with listening to my past collection than collecting all the new releases. At the same time I'm discovering other genres of music that are satisfying me more because they're still in that red-hot, crucial 'blossom' phase that Goa used to be in.

 

EA

[Guest bugbread]

Well, I hope I wouldn't say that. I might THINK it, but everybody is a little selfish in their own minds . If I caught myself saying it, I'd probably apologize.

 

Basically, I think very little music "evolves", because I don't really believe in absolutes of "better" and "worse" in music. Things just develop and change and flow. There is no "up" and "down". Sure, there's stuff I like, and stuff I don't, and stuff I think is genius, and stuff I think is crap, but I realize those are my own personal opinions, not absolutes.

 

As for people who think that Goa is dead, really, it depends what you consider Goa. If it's very straightforward melodic stuff, like AP, then it's mainly been passed on to amateurs who are producing a lot of melodic stuff. If you consider other types of melodic/maximal stuff to be Goa, then just listen to Haltya, Pelinpala, Muschaw, etc. for a taste of the "new-skool", or keep in mind that the best selling trance unit right now is Infected Mushroom (double gold). AP style goa is gone, but melodic psy-trance is still alive and kicking. Unfortunately, it has many fans but very few DJs and parties.

[Guest russ]

Bugbread,

 

I think evolve is an excellent word, even if EP is right about most of the old-timers not being so involved in the scene. The next generation has taken a slightly different branch in their development than the previous one, as this is what it means to evolve. "Evolve" is change through generations, through one person.

 

For starters, the music has definately evolved for the better in terms of production. The kicks and the bass and the sounds are so much stronger (just listen to Son Kite/Filur"), as this does not just refer to progressive stuff. It covers everybody, from Son Kite to Kox Box to Deedrah/Synthetic. Artists across the trance genres have learned how to master the more "physical" aspects of sound, and how they can be used to move a dance floor.

 

Second, as you point out, "evolve" does not necessarily mean "better". The fundamental meaning of the word is simply TO ADAPT TO PRESENT CIRCUMSTANCES IN ORDER TO SURVIVE. And that is what happened. If labels like Iboga, Digital Structures, SpiralTrax, and Plastic Park had not come on to the scene, the scene would have lost a huge amount of its will to live--it would have lost much of its old blood, and it would have had trouble drawing in new. In other words, there would have been stagnation. But the change brought a host of new talent and new ideas and new people (not better, just different). In other words, it brought new genes into the pool, and enabled this trance organism to adapt and survive. To continue the biological metaphor, the music was simply becoming too in-bred, with the same ideas mating with each other again and again (again, there is nothing wrong with the ideas--they're great, but even great ideas have their natural limits); and in-breeding leads to ugly, mutated results far from the original line.

 

Being in Japan, you have a great chance to witness this--just go to any Arcadia 3dvision party. This is a great example of unevolved stagnation, and it's not pretty. In fact, so much of what you complained about in an earlier post about the bad side of the Japanese scene is PRECISELY the result of an unevolved scene. Everything became a cliche and a set formula, Jorg and Miko would play the same songs in the same location at the same time each year, Solstice would have almost the exact same line-up for two straight years, and as the standard crowd likes a good cliche, the crowds became more and more standard and less special, and the spirit was gone.

 

I loved the music from years ago, but I simply had heard too much, and if the music stayed on the GMS/Infected Mushroom course, I would have droppped out completely, along with almost everyone I know. I do not claim that the new is any better than the old--they are two fundamentally different beasts, and I love and/or have loved them both. And I would be the first to admit that some tunes from '97 hit me in any way whose depth I wil probably never feel again. Some things are once in a life. But evolve is exactly what the scene has done, for better or for worse, in order to stay alive.

[Guest russ]

...and kicking!

[Otto Matta]

Wow. Well said, russ.

[Guest bugbread]

Well, you see Russ, that's precisely the problem with connotation and denotation. Admittedly, one definition of evolve is "development to suit the habitat". However, unfortunately, another definition is "continuous change from a lower, simpler, or worse to a higher, more complex, or better state". A good but ridiculously extreme example is the word "negro". Its denotation and connotation are quite different. I realize that few people using the term "evolve" intend it to be an attack on full-on types, and I myself didn't take it that way the first 100 times or so, but after a while...

 

Ah, hell, who am I fooling, I'm just being too sensitive...Must be that time of the biorhythm cycle...

 

As for Japan, unfortunately, I entered the Japanese scene just as the type of music I loved was wilting away. I suppose if you'd been in Japan from the Geode (? I only know from rumours) days, it would appear stagnant, but I moved from Fukuoka, which had one goa event in 3 years (when Tsuyoshi played to a room of 50 or so). I came to Tokyo, and I had all this wonderful melodic stuff. I didn't even know about IM at the time, and had only heard one Hallucinogen album. Events were full of rich, layered, swirly, bright, twisting melodies. Then, every month, I noticed less and less melody, more and more "boom boom boom boom". Admittedly, most of it has to do with the way they run the sound at the clubs, but I didn't know that for the longest time. So to you what looked like a stagnant scene starting to evolve looks to me like a vibrant scene degenerating. But, since you've got a bit more experience locally than I, I'll have to take your word for it (you seem like a pretty on-it kinda guy). Hmm...it's a difficult call. But to be honest, as much as you might be repulsed by the idea, I'd prefer today's crowds with yesterday's music than today's music with yesterday's crowds.

 

Then again, as my girlfriend always points out, I'm in it ONLY for the music. I can go to clubs by myself, talk to no-one, and have the most awesome time. I complain about the scene because I've seen it deteriorate, but to be honest, I can handle good music with a bad crowd, but if I don't like the music, NOTHING can make me enjoy myself. So that's my little quirk.

 

By the way, russ, you are DAMN eloquent! Bit of a rarity in this day and age. We should meet up some time.

[Guest Mike D]

Ep my point in my earlier post. The world is a smallerplace and so more outside influences are coming in, therefore it is not strictly goa, but a more worldwide version of the original goa scece, and I think it is good, tsaking the goa philosphy to a much bigger mindset.

[Guest AutoMath]

Ok, but why is there such a big rotation of people in the goa-scene?

 

Today maybe 5% is left of the people originally into this vibe back in 93-94. Why is that? A lot of people seem to have moved on and now does something else. How can you otherwize explain why so little is known about the pioneering days in this scene.

 

I suspect it may have to do with the drugs. People seem to burn very bright but then burn out very hard and fast. "Too much energy, too much energy" to quote a hole-eyed drugged out acid-head italian on the edge of sanity in a documentary show about the drop outs in Goa on Swedish TV in 96(?) .

 

/Auto.