Guest Mike D Posted April 1, 2002 Share Posted April 1, 2002 EP and some others have mentioned that psy trance and goa should be all split up and we shoul have a progressive, minimal, psy, goa, ambient genre`'s. The thing is, when you lok at most musical scenes, especially very populuar music scenes, as soon as you try to make all different group0s of sounds and music styles, the scene dies out, and it really then becomes a bickering money making feeding frenzy. I mean, what if the fans and the producers split it up? Then the producers will just go with the demand, and only stick with what is selling. As the scene stands now, the lables and artists stil have the freedom to make whatever sounds they want and release it. The hwole idea of goa and psy and psy-tech is about usical freedom and exploration, not fiitting into group0s and categories. So if we truly want to killy our scene, go make little click groups of certain sounds, and suddenly we will all forget the old skools, and only care about the new. I love both and respect both. I have always wanted to dj at a party and play just the real nice old stuff, 1993-1997, to prove to all the younger fans the old skool still rocks. I mean seriously, listening to Powergen when my mate dj'd at a 21st this weekend, I couldn't help but dance and bounce, and it kicked the arse of some of his more techno stuff, but then the next dj stuck to X-Dream, Delta, Midi Milliz etc. and I still coulnt; help bouncing and dancing coz it contains the same exciting vibe as the old skool, just that the style has progressed! I cannot see why people are o afraid to accept the new styles, are you afraid to except new thoughts on other topics? Will you accept your children and gran children? The next generations will test you much more than some music scene, and if you can't handle some music progression, how will you handle family progression? Grow up and keep the scene alive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Setsuko Posted April 1, 2002 Share Posted April 1, 2002 agree , some people call is regress ... which is certainly not true , the problem here is that people who fell in love with the goatrance do not want to have changes in music they want to stick with the goatrance formules ... nowadays music became more repetitive ... even the 3DV sounds and TIP.world released nowadays sounds all the same ... and this seems to fall under the category full-on ... well i have my thoughts about it. like Mike D said (and many many) others , if we split up the music in genres this will be the main reason why the scene is going to die.... and not the fact that psytrance insert influences from the techno and house scene ... but then transforms it as psy and grown up .... after all , the goatrance has it's roots in acid-house so .... the minimal vs. full-on war is just ridiculous , pointless and KILLS THE SPIRIT in the scene , which was the reason why i felt in love with this scene ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Project Posted April 1, 2002 Share Posted April 1, 2002 I can't speak for anyone else than myself and I got to say that you're completely twisting my words from another post. I suggest you read what I wrote again. All I said was that today it seem as that the idea and philosophy of the goa scene has died out because many old timers like myself do not have the energy to fight for it's excistance and therefore many "new" people take the scene into another direction where the goa spirit get a little lost. That's my opinion but does not nessesary have to be your opinion. And about the splitting up I only mentioned that it might be a good idea to distance (split up) the latelly new "psy-tech" or "minimal" with the goa (ethnic, tribal, and more melodic) style so people wont feel so cheated when the go to a party and discover that even though the organisers call it a goa party it's actually a 100% "psy-tech" / minimal party. That was all I was saying. And this is taken out of an whole content where I was explaining why people think and feel this way and indeed feel cheated. It was NOT and I repeat NOT my own opinion 100%. - I do like some of the new music and do see myself as a very openminded person in relation to music...Afterall I have studied classic and jazz music and have a long history playing in "new-wave" bands. An for the sake of not be missquoted again I did not say that this forum should be split up - that was someone else! - I too think that's a bad idea. I don't see that this subject got anything to do with me or anyone else accepting children and future grandchildren? How in heavens name did your brain make up that idea? - And the idea about about the next generation will test us much more - well I have always liked to be tested - even though this also got nothing to do with this current topic. Last but not least - please do not tell us to grow up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike D Posted April 1, 2002 Share Posted April 1, 2002 A. I never said the forum should be split up, I said the music shoudln't be split up. B. Stop taking it so damn personal, you mentioned it and I just wanted to open it up for more discussion, I am not out to get you. If you do not want your ideas to be discussed on the fourm, then do not state them a forums is for discussion of things. I did not twist your words as I did not directly quote them. C. I do not tell you to grow up, I ask you to try and accept the fact that as this world of ours is growing much smaller with technological advances, so is the sound of our music going to change with i t,it is perfectly natural thing to happen. D. I was just pointing out that people should try and be more accepting, maybe not you EP becuase I said EP and other people? Did you read that? I ws getting murdered on here last year for not liking minmal and the new sound, now that I have accepted it I find other people, not neccesarily you again, other PEOPLE(plural), are annoyed that I enjoy the imnal sound. I just wish the whole bloody arguements would stop and we could just listen to the music. New Years ever, last one. I was bouncing to some lovely full on ol skol style and then some dude put on the more chilled progressive. I wasn;t in the mood so I went away, If at parties you see on the flyer or when you talk to theorganise dj;s who will be playing all nite your not so fav. style, then don't go. It is simple, do what you enoy, and let all the others do what they enjoy. Easy as A-B-C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Project Posted April 1, 2002 Share Posted April 1, 2002 A. I know you did not say that the forum should be split up...I was just pointing it out so noone else start to missquote me here since it was a part of the debate in the original post. B. I am not taking anything personal and I know you are not out to get me but I have the right to reply to what I think you have missunderstood - that's what I call a discussion. - When you start with the letters EP I see it as a direct link to my opinion(s). C. I do know what you pointed out but as I said I can only speak for myself and I do believe that when you refered to me you also missunderstood my points made in another post where the whole topic started. And if you did not tell us to grow up then I need glasses. D. Well when you say EP (nomatter how many other people you include) I can only understand it in one way - you thinking that I have to be more accepting...How else can I understand it? I don't think the argument should go away - I believe that discussions enlight people and that this somehow "heated" subject have a purpose - mainly to unite people more and to understand where other people come from. If noone address the "problem" the "problem" would never be solved and more and more people would find themselves distancing themselves from the scene they love so much. Hope you understand what I am saying here - I don't think I can explain it more simple that this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kzi Posted April 1, 2002 Share Posted April 1, 2002 this is really overcomplicating things.. ree-lax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bugbread Posted April 1, 2002 Share Posted April 1, 2002 Well, since I'm one of the people involved in this discussion (and I have to say I'm happy that the discussion has stayed pretty shanti so far), I'd like to say that Mike D's post was a pretty good up until the end . I don't really agree that admitting that two different types of music are different kills those genres, any more than splitting up metal and punk killed metal or punk. That's just my opinion, though. As for "I cannot see why people are o afraid to accept the new styles, are you afraid to except new thoughts on other topics? Will you accept your children and gran children? The next generations will test you much more than some music scene, and if you can't handle some music progression, how will you handle family progression?". That's just silly. "Love it because it's new!". I'll choose my music based on my tastes, thank you very much, not because something is "new". And I like plenty of "new" stuff. Muschaw, new Ubar Tmar, Pelinpala, etc. Don't get the idea that because the majority of new stuff is minimal that it all is. I hate repetetive music, with the exception of classical minimalism and balinese music. It's part of my personality to crave "surprise" in my music. No amount of being told that "minimal is the future" can change that part of me. It has nothing to do with newness. If country became some weird, unpredictable, surprising music, I might like country. I'm not saying that you should dislike minimal. I'm not saying that you should like maximal. But I find it a bit condescending that people keep assuming that I and other maximal likers don't like minimal because I'm scared of "new" or "different". As for Setsuko's comment, "the problem here is that people who fell in love with the goatrance do not want to have changes in music they want to stick with the goatrance formules ", that may be true for some, but I don't think for all. I'm currently quite fond of Loopus in Fabula. It is not minimal, but it is not an old goatrance formula. One thing that minimal fans should realize is that not all people who dislike minimal want things to sound the same as they did in 1996. Some do, some don't. Me, I want WEIRDER. I want MORE TWISTED. I find Astral Projection nice, but too plain now. I want something to make me say "WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT?!?!". That's why I was looking for terms for the minimal/non-minimal fields. I find too much stuff now that I listen to not minimal, but not "old-skool" either. Very maximal, but not arpeggiated melodies. But, as I said, I agree with a good chunk of Mike D's post. Perhaps having these genres together is allowing MORE maximal artists to publish their music. Maybe if they split up maximal psy would die out because minimal has the best selling base. I saw it happen to jungle, and I don't want it to happen to psy. And one last note: "If at parties you see on the flyer or when you talk to theorganise dj;s who will be playing all nite your not so fav. style". Ok, pop quiz for you: party on Wednesday, DJs will be So, Hikari, Stoned 2 Max, and Tatsuya. The flier says it will be "Psychedelic Trance". So...which is it, minimal or full on? Do you know? Neither do I, and I'm not about to spend $22 and a full night to find out. Imagine that EVERY SINGLE WEEK. Sure, if your trance scene is small enough that you can know every organizer and DJ, you're set. Try living here and see if it's that easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bugbread Posted April 1, 2002 Share Posted April 1, 2002 Hehe...I love discussing and debating, I hate arguing. In a sense, this is fun for me, plus since this discussion has been so level headed, I've gotten a lot of interesting insights on how different people here think. So, kzi, I'm relaxed -me (always played devil's advocate in class discussions) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoebis Posted April 1, 2002 Share Posted April 1, 2002 Well, let's keep it simple... Splitting up the scene is NOT necessary... BUT... People should know what kind of music they will hear at a party!! (Full On or Psy-Tekk) Here in belgium the scene already splitted, you have every weekend & Goa/full on party AND a progressive/Psy Tekk party!! And the people know what to expect, so no more complaining about the music!! ;-)) Bom Shankar! Anoebis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bugbread Posted April 1, 2002 Share Posted April 1, 2002 Sweet... I guess I'm in an additionally unfortunate situation here because people call everything Goa as well, so Spirillianz and Tromesa are also called "Goa". Makes things REALLY confusing. I gotta move to Belgium! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Project Posted April 1, 2002 Share Posted April 1, 2002 I agree with Anoebis but also have to say that your situation in belgium is quite unique. Most places around the world the majority of parties are still called goa parties even if the music are 100% psy-tech. So I also agree with bugbread. I for one would feel very cheated if I went to a party and had to pay $.22 for something I did not like. I think the blaim are on all the organisers that keep exploiting people when they trick people into thinking that they are going to a goa party! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike D Posted April 1, 2002 Share Posted April 1, 2002 Hmm, well out here it tends to be that anything close to original goa is either psy or goa, and progressive/full on/minimal is alternative trance/hardcore goa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Project Posted April 1, 2002 Share Posted April 1, 2002 Well then you are very lucky Mike...that is indeed not the situation in most countries in Europe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike D Posted April 2, 2002 Share Posted April 2, 2002 Hehe, yeah guess I am lucky here, and plus our music scene is so open here you see the posters all over the city on walls and stuff with dj line ups and live acts, so you can choose who to see etc. I have heard what it is like in Euorpe Elyisum, formm my girlfriend's cousin and some mates working in England, they said it sucks alot compared to outhere, still very much underground, we even have regular psy events at clubs, tho I never go because I prefer to go to an outdoor event. Anyway, I just think it owuldbe nice to keep things as they were in the old days, and just let it go as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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