Guest smg Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 I have few questions... I'm starting goa-dj, or whatever. My point is that I have just bought playing stuff (vinyl) and I'm very dissappointed about the availability of some good tracks on vinyl. First of all, there are *so* many good albums that are only available on cd. And second, if some good album is on vinyl, very often it lacks several tracks. Sometimes though, like with shiva sidpao and some others, they have included *all* tracks that are on cd version also. It's very annoying to buy for instance spirallianz 2LP cause it has only 5 tracks, and my favorite submariniert is missing, among some other good tracks. So, you people who play tracks mainly from vinyl, do you also buy cd's of cd-only-released tracks and play those tracks from cd... or do you just try to live without those many good tracks? I wouldn't like to miss some good gems just out of principle that cd sucks and I won't play it... I'm ok with cd though, but I love vinyl. And then, if I buy spirallianz 2LP for instance, does the law allow me to burn a copy of my friends original cd, which has all the tracks, and then play them in public? Although I don't have submariniert as original vinyl, I have bought full price 2LP and therefore I think would have the right to take a copy and play it. Cause the album has same title!!! For home/car listening this law doesn't apply, cause I burn them anyway. But what do clubs/promoters/party organizers/whoever say if I play burned submariniert. This is just an example. MFG - New kind of world Orichalcum - Live ...those titles are available as cd, but have those titles ever been released as vinyl? If not, I have no choice but to buy them and play them from cd. Makes me sad... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Project Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 Maybe the labels can't afford to put out vinyl because there's not enough people buying vinyl?.... Think! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike D Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 Yes I agree with Elyisum. If you look at it from a supply and demand point of view, of course any idiot with a brain is going to supply to the hghest source of income. Namely cd's because 90% of fans will listen at home on their stereo like me, maybe with a softwar emixer like me, and not want to spend the cashon a good vinyl,, or pay the price for a 12" when for a little bitmore they can get neat compact disc with 9+ trax onit. I miust admit it is annoying for the dj's, and in a lot of other electronic genre`s vinyl is alot more avialable. Sad but true :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest [tom jaimz] Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 For anyone considering a start in psychedelic trance DJ, I cannot recommend enough NOT going with vinyl. Vinyl is an inferior medium, which is just as easy to mix as CDs, and doesn't offer as much range AND costs more AND weighs more. I honestly CANNOT understand why people continue to play vinyl. As for why vinyl is still released by labels, you must realise that labels nearly ALWAYS lose money on releasing vinyl - they do it mostly as a promotional tool - DJs buy vinyl, play it, the track becomes popular and people buy it. The only exceptions are with the German/Scando progressive scene, where vinyl still makes money. Well, breaks even anyway. Please. Think of your children. Don't play vinyl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Navigator Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 Tom.who the fu^ are you to tell people what to buy,moron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest [tom jaimz] Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 Navigator, if you'd like to offer a bit more of a constructive response I'd be happy to debate this. I simply fail to see the advantage of vinyl and I don't think DJs should spin vinyl because it just makes their life harder. If you can give a different view, go for it. And dude, relax a little, yeah? :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lurk Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 After 5 years of collecting vinyl, I am just about to buy a pair of cdj's , although it pains me to do it. I'll still continue to buy 12"s though, and burn them on to cd to play at parties where there are no technics (which is more and more the case these days). If I could I wouldn't change because I am a vinyl junkie, but I couldn't really tell you why, I guess because its a much more personal experience spinning vinyl, and imho vinyl has a much more "warm" sound to it than cd; mixing with cdj's seems kind of detached, if you see what I mean, which you probably don't ;o)) The only think i won't miss is, as Tom mentioned, carrying a shitload of very heavy records for miles ;o) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kingdok Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 I typically only buy vinyl when there's some obscure b-side that I'm never going to get on an album or compilation, or when it's a vinyl-only release. I don't DJ with my vinyl (at least not outside my bedroom so for now it's more a collector's thing. I just want to hear the music, in whichever medium is most readily available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dam10n Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 Why not have the 1210's for the vinyl AND some CDJ's? We can't change the label's output, we don't want to spend US$6000 on a vinyl-cutter (eight month waiting list as well) so why not just go trans-media, hell even link up an MP3 player as well. Then nobody's subject to these economic problems. Bass guitar around your neck and a tambourine tied to your wrist, and bob's your uncle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest [tom jaimz] Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 Basilisk - I'm not saying people shouldn't buy vinyl. Hell, I buy heaps of vinyl - I just got two 12s last week [Erdbeer Kiwi remixes and the Aphid Moon on FR], and I've ordered another four. I'm just saying people shouldn't DJ off vinyl. Or rather, sorry Navigator, I don't think people should learn to DJ vinyl, because I believe people will be better DJs if they learn to DJ CDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest smg Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 Yeah, I guess so... I still keep buying vinyls cause I find it easier (?!) to mix with those, not to mention it's way cooler to have *physical* contact with your loved ones than watching them through plexi-glass and control with buttons )). But yeah... I suppose it's best way to buy vinyls as much as I can cause they will still be cool format for decades... and then buy/use cd's when vinyl is not available. And like lurk said, the sound is little different, but it's not big of a deal. I just dig that large size/physical contact thingie so much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ether Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 why not use both??? i spin using both...what i cant get on one i get on the other??? it makes a set more interesting and varied Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lurk Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 I try to, but like I said before, here in amsterdam at least, a party with a working pair of turntables, as well as cdj's, is a very rare thing... which breaks my heart ;o)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mescalinium Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 i don't share tom's explicit viewpoint that no one should stick with vinyl... i think it depends much more on what style you're going for... while there is a distinctive lack of full on and melodic stuff on vinyl, there's still plenty of minimal/progressive releases. i.e. if your top 5 labels don't release much vinyl, I'd say you're probably out of luck. from the example you presented of Spirallianz, they release a lot of stuff on vinyl, some of which does not end up on cd (e.g. the edition silver EP series, the new boshke beats EP). both the blast food album and the antistat album were released on LP, the latter with all the tracks on it. as a qualitative manner, i think most people would agree that records are easier to mix, and more importantly, sound better when mixed properly. others have touched upon the tangible sensation one experiences when mixing records... this is not an unimportant point... i would go so far as to say that mixing vinyl is inherently more *fun*, i.e. you feel more involved with the music. for me, this is the reason why i spin, and why i choose to use vinyl. of course, the ideal set up would include both cdj's and turntables, but of course, that's rather expensive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest russ Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 my take on the above: about money, ep and tom are right. trance simply doesn't sell enough. you can't slag a label over that. none of these labels make much money anyway. it's nothing to get angry or self-righteous about. about mixing, i think vinyl blends together a bit better, but a cd sounds better and doesn't deteriorate over many listens. and i think the smoothest cd dj's, like philip and mahasuka, are a lot smoother than any of the vinyl mixing crowd. it's a bit more scientific and less artistic, but it is more precise. about sound, vinyl actually covers a greater frequency range. (the white coats who originally came up with the cd standard screwed up by underestimating the range of human hearing.) when i listen to good vinyl at home when smoking, the sound certainly fills more space and has a more natural, organic feel, and the lows sound great. unfortunately, it is not very accurate, and the highs sound like @!#$, and get worse with each listen. high hats, cymbols, etc sound particularly bad. some of this is due to the way the medium relies on physical contact between metal and plastic. this is of course asking for trouble with anything less than incrediblely engineered components. but even with audiophile equipement, trance records sound garbage, because trance vinyl pressings fucking suck. cheap bullshit pressed in yugoslavia etc. look at the grooves at a trance record and compare to them a piece of high quality techno plastic. the techno grooves will shine and catch more light, and they are much deeper. most trance grooves barely scratch the surface. i like vinyl, but 90% of trance vinyl is unlistenable to me. (the new traktor microdots release was comically bad--i couldn't even see a mark in the plastic, and plastic park vinyl are notoriously bad.) there are a few exceptions, of course. i think i've bought every release Baluns/Digital Structures have put out, just because they do such a professional job with the mastering and pressing (probably because of their techno background). but most vinyl i just leave on the shelves, even if i want the track. just too expensive for what you get. i don't want to collect--i want to listen. now of course, this is again down to economics. proper pressings are expensive, especially if you can only sell a few 1000 copies at max. not much incentive to do a proper job. one side note, i read a recent interview by neve (of the legendary neve mixers) and he really hates cd with a passion. he thinks anything sampling rate less than 200,000 times a second creates audible popping sounds that we pick up on unconsciously. he then goes to mention some japanese research that links cd digitally sampled sound to violence, the claim being the popping/unnatural sound of digital audio affects people's emotions in a negative/violent way. really interesting, and i would love to read more of this. analogue certainly has a more soothing effect on me (when it is of high quality). but overall, i think tom jaimz is right. if you are getting into dj'ing trance these days, leave the vinyl to collectors. cd is the way, for better and occasionally for worse. it's also much easier. i can beatmix for hours off of cd, but i would lost up there mixing my vinyl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Inu Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Personally, I like thinner vinyl for it's organic, dirty sound. When I listen to, say, an old Phantasm release, I feel like I can hear the sounds spilling out of the artist's analogue synth... whereas when I listen to a 180 GM, audiophile pressing, I just get the feel of a high-tech mastering studio. Does anyone else feel that way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Inu Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 And no, I'm not plugging my old records again ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest akira Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Ok...I'm a diehard vinyl collector and will NEVER be co-erced into buying cds. Even if they stop pressing records tomorrow, there is no way I will ever go back to using cds to dj. When a cd is played on a big sound system, it sounds too digital for it's own good, it might be hard to grasp this concept but those who have heard this also will know what I'm talking about. If my vinyl starts sounding bad I replace the needles on my decks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fiba Optix Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Akira, I'd like to know what 0 & 1's sound like! Cheers Fiba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nomad Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 the benefit of cd's is in the unreleased tracks..try finding unreleased vinyl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest akira Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Fiba Optix I'd like to know what you're talking about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tim Shuldt Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Hey Basilisk if you want Weird egg and Grapefruit on Cd email me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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