Genre Help

[Guest Elysium Project]

well I only have one thing to say about this.....don't go to the parties then.... go to the parties where he do not play........ I am so sick of people always complaning about the DJ's bands ect.... Can you do it better??? If so then do it or don't complain..... If you don't like it don't support it..... I have the deepest respect for Tsuyoshi and yes I have seen him play resently...... I agree it was not goa or psy but I still believe that it was good and interesting music..... Open up your minds people and stop complaning all the time.... a bit more tollerance would be appriciated....

[Guest Bugbread]

Hmm...I understand that point of view, Elysium, but in this case it doesn't quite click.

 

First, as far as the "if you can't do it better, don't complain": it's a simplistic and wildly poor maxim. By the same logic, I shouldn't complain about cars that break down two weeks after purchasing them (I can't make a better car), CD players that skip and pop (I can't make a better CD), clothes that are poorly sewn (I can't make clothes).

 

As for "if you don't like it, don't go": Basically, I agree, and I avoid most of the parties that he goes to. However, really good artists (Halluci, Shpongle, Infected, SUN, Juno) tend to be really famous. Makes sense, as they're famous because they're good, not like idol bands (Backstreet, Brittney). As such, parties that really good DJs come and play (or good units come and do live shows) are always really big parties. And here's the deal: Tsuyoshi plays at EVERY big party. Vision Quest's summer party (Hallucinogen, X-Dream, Delta, Tim Shuldt, SUN Project, Infected Mushroom, Jorg, GMS) had him. Solstice (Shpongle world debut concert) had him. If the artist is really famous and good, he's there. So, basically, we have a DJ that doesn't spin psy at every event that people who love psy want to go to, always put in an optimal (and hard to ignore play spot), and, here's the key: None of the psy people like him! If it were just me, hell, I'd tell myself to shut up and take it. But when you realize that ALL the psy people at a PSY party dislike a DJ, there's a problem. When you realize that the people who love his shows are almost all on e or speed, there's a bit more of a problem. And when he's placed in such a way that it destroys the flow, there's a huge problem.

 

Simple, relatively agreeable example: I love Happy Hardcore, but I would hate it for a happy hardcore DJ to be placed smack dab in the middle of a night of goa. It's not that Tsuyoshi has to be a clone DJ or shouldn't have individuality, but if his set is going to be SO incongruous with everything else played by everyone else, he should either be first, last, or on a second stage. I don't have a problem with him playing, but you don't invite Slayer to play between the first and second movements of a Beethoven symphony (though that would be pretty funny...).

 

I guess I'm bitching here because: it bothers me, but no amount of complaining to a big Japanese organizer is going to give them incentive to drop him from the bill and lose a few thousand dollars from speedfreaks who don't go to the show, no amount of organizing is going to get someone major to play at an event besides the big 4 or 5 organizers (hell, Equinox has an exclusive agreement with Juno Reactor that they won't play at any other organizer's event!), and it relieves me to hear that everyone else who goes to Japanese shows seems to have a similar opinion. I only know the opinions of people I talk to (um...common sense, sorry), so this spreads my antenna over a wider scope.

 

And don't get me wrong on one thing: I don't like the music he plays, but I think he's a very technically proficient DJ. Still, there's a time and place for everything, and just like sex is good and talking to your parents is good, having sex in front of your parents is not.

[Guest Mike D]

How about for once we just all agree to disagree??

[Guest Phaedrus]

I think this is great! An intelligent discussion where people disagreed and it did not degrade into a flame war. Good stuff.

 

For me (as an american) it is very interesting to hear Bugbread's and russ' outlook on the Japanese trance scene. I did not know that Japan drew so many big trance names (I hope that does not come off as a totally arrogant american statement). Excellent thread to read.

 

To Bugbread's original question about genres, I have a couple points:

 

1) The definition of full-on, morning/melodic, and minimal is relatively cut and dry, at least for me. Examples of full-on are Talamasca, Absolum, Oforia/Tandu; melodic are AP, Blue Planet, Ra, Yahel; minimal is MOS. But the definition of "progressive" in the context of psytrance is always a little confusing to me. To me progressive is the kind of "house trance" that Sasha and Digweed spin (which I like). For me, this style is different (not necessarily worse) than psy trance in that it lacks the epic builds and bright, vibrant synth sounds of psy trance. When people label reviews as progressive on this site, I rarely agree that it sounds like my concept of progressive. As Bugbread mentioned, the point here is not tp become a "genre nazi", as that kind of aggrevates me, but to be able to understand eachother more clearly by having a commom knowledge base.

 

2) Mike D - I have seen it suggested several times, but an FAQ with these kinds of definitions, or at least links to other resources which define them (such as Allmusic.com) would be beneficial for all involved. I heard that you are the moderator, perhaps you can suggest it to the sysops?

 

Cheers,

Bill

[Guest Elysium Project]

For god's sake (or should I say sake)....lol

 

I can understand your views Bugbread but I do not agree.

 

First I really do not see the problem about Tsuyoshi. Even if you think he is not the right DJ in a psy/goa party he is only one DJ out of many DJ's and liveacts in those parties. How long is he actually playing 2 hours... come on I have been to parties with really bad DJ's that played 6 hours.... that is a nightmare! Is it really so hard to let him play those 2 hours? Patience my friend :-)

 

Second you say he destroy the flow of the party.... who dosen't?

Live acts playing after and before DJ's are in my mind real flow killers.

 

And when I say do something about it I mean.... set up your own parties and do what you think is best..!! Just do not bitch about it! By the way I have played in Japan 3 times now and I do not see that big problem about the scene that you all are complaining about.....maybe it's just me or the fact that I do not live there. I know it's always easier to get stuck and bitching about one's own backyard :-) I know I tend to do that about Denmark too.

[Guest russ]

hi elysium project,

 

just one more final comment before i sign off on this one. yes, i like to bitch. sorry, just can't help it. and you're totally right, 99% of bitchers bitch only and do little constructive in return. and people do love to bitch about their back yard; if i was still in america, i would trade my left foot for the kind of parties we have over here. but that will never stop me from bitching! however, i don't bitch only. on the front of doing something to improve trance in japan, this summer i put all my money and time where my mouth is. in october i organized a 3-day outdoor party featuring: Son Kite, Shiva Chandra, Auricular, Intact Instint, Double Dragon, Human Blue, James Monro, Mahasuka, Emok, Mapusa Mapusa, and Spiralkinder. i tried my best to promote the party to the underground scene only (i think i succeeded perhaps a little too well in this regard!) and to create a ritualized dance environment outdoors. we had no annoying spotlights on the dance floor with the only lighting provided by torches, candles, and a fire. we probably lost around $30,000, but it was worth every penny just to see a trance party take place that fit my image of what an outdoor party should look like. beautiful friendly vibe on the floor, first rate music from start to finish, going on to 5pm the final day, no screamers or violent faces or excessive energy--just a bunch of relaxed people grooving outdoors to some liquid beats up in mountains shrouded in mist. no hype, no costumed dancers on stage, no silliness. if you want to see some pics, please check out www.hardco.de/labyrinth. stefan huber from intact instinct took some nice photos and set up this little page on his own.

 

take care,

--russ

 

p.s. by the way, i agree with your comment on lives ruining the flow. i felt that one weakness of my party was way too many live acts. some of the dj's played so well (especially James Monro, Mapusa Mapusa, and Mahasuka) that I just wanted to ditch some of the live acts and let them play longer!! i talked to the dj's about this, and we agreed that they should play 5 hours each next year with perhaps just one or two live acts.

 

p.s.s. when was the last time you came to play in japan? if it was within the past two years, i must have completely missed it:(

[Guest Elysium Project]

Last time was in 2000. Sorry I do not remember the party organisers name. I played with Jean Borelli. It was a small party (around 500 people) somewhere in Tokyo :-).

 

But even though I still think the first party in 1997 where I played live was the best for me.... It is always more fun the first time in a new country :-)

[Guest bugbread]

Good response, Elysium. I guess in essence I agree. After all, I'm here bitching about Tsuyoshi, but I've never gone away from a party with a bad overall impression due to him. I usually just take a walk and talk to friends. Guess I was being too bitchy.

 

As for "fix it yourself": well, I'm doing my first ever DJ set next week. Since I can't beat match, it'll probably be crap, but I know at least the song selection should rock. Very happy, very excited.

 

But I certainly can't afford to lose $30,000 on an event. Yeesh!

 

As for the bad scene: like I said, it's not really as bad as we make it out to be. I guess what everyone is indirectly saying is "it's a lot worse (but still not too bad). Kind of like if an antbite swells up to double regular size, you'll complain about it, but when you realize people are dying of cancer, you realize how good you have it. Crowds here are WAY worse than they used to be, but although I've felt scared, I've never actually felt really threatened. Nobody's taken any of my stuff, nobody's hit me, nobody's done anything to my friends either. ut when you go to parties every few weeks, you notice a definite change. On the other hand (folks in Japan), is it just my imagination or has the crowd been getting incrementally better recently? Last winter I gave up on indoor events entirely because of the ambiance, but lately, it seems that things are improving. Anyone else notice?

 

By the way, Russ, I'm pretty sure my friend went to your show. If so, that event was SOOOOOOO incredibly well regarded him. He was drooling over how good it was.

[Guest Elysium Project]

Anyway just a couple of questions... kinda off topic :-))

 

We in the west have always had the impression that Japan is or should I say was? a very non violent country based on old traditions and values.... is it still a non violent country - at least compared to the west? or is it getting worse??

 

and last - if it is so! - where did it go wrong?

 

The lately massive unemployment?

 

or......(maybe both)

 

The young people's rebellion towards old values and society structures?

 

take care my japaneese friends :-)