Frontier Psychiatrist Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 Damn you ppl, some of you really slaughtering all the holy cows of psytrance. I mean, i can understand if someone doesn't like or understand 1 or 2 of the major psy trance artists like Simon Posford or IM or Juno, but i see that there are some ppl that hate them all. WTF are you listening to? Minimal Techno? And this anti Infected Mushroom thingie is a cliche. It's old and unoriginal. They are not sell outs. They just prefer to spend time and money on broadening their horizons, instead of doing same copy paste bullshit like everybody does nowadays. It's called development. After 3 masterpiece albums and multiple releases on all the major labels, if you would be a real artist, you would change your direction in music. For the record, i didn't like the last album as well. But guess what, i've been to their live show this thursday and i danced like i didn't danced the whole Boom festival with it's top notch underground artists (which rock as well, but on totally different scale than IM). And for a change, IM are among the only ones that actually make a live show. Not your average mega cool artist with laptop that plays with the cutoff effect of the lead sound. Now flame on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eleria Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 @Frontier Psychiatrist: I can only speek for myself, but I don't hate any of the artists I mentioned (that would be energy waisted, hehe), I just think that they are overrated. For example I was writing in another thread, that Hallucinogen was good morning music at it's time. But when I read how people talk about Posford like some kind of prophet and LSD being mentioned in what ever "best ..." thread there is, then I find that a bit much. I can also assure you, that I don't listen to minimal techno. There are lot's of other great psyartists out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frontier Psychiatrist Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 @Frontier Psychiatrist: I can only speek for myself, but I don't hate any of the artists I mentioned (that would be energy waisted, hehe), I just think that they are overrated. For example I was writing in another thread, that Hallucinogen was good morning music at it's time. But when I read how people talk about Posford like some kind of prophet and LSD being mentioned in what ever "best ..." thread there is, then I find that a bit much. I can also assure you, that I don't listen to minimal techno. There are lot's of other great psyartists out there. 200678[/snapback] I was not referring to you. 'ts ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeA Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 the whole chemical crew and infected are shit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraph Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 @Eleria: Why do you think that Hallucinogen, Astral Projection and Shpongle are overrated ? The guys obviously achieved lots in the psy trance scene and people probably wouldn't like them so much if they are not that worth. Although, I think that GMS were great in the begininng and just turned into hyper productive trivia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eleria Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Well, I guess in the end it all comes down to a matter of taste and what works for you. Hallucinogen was, as I said earlier, good morning music at it's time, but it never got me really excited. Maybe it's not crazy enough. It wasn't my favorite music then and it isn't now and I don't understand why people keep going on about it. Same with AstralProjection, they sound like kids to me most of the time. GMS is imo a shame for the psychedelic trance scene. I think they totally forgot where their musical inspiration came from first and they are the best example for turning psy trance into pop trance. Out of all the artists I mentioned I dislike them the most. Cheesy shit. I enjoyed the first Shpongle Album, nice chill/ambient music, the second one didn't catch me. Maybe there is too much thought in their music for my taste. What can I say really, it just doesn't work for me, there is other stuff I prefere. Also I think you can't generally say, that "people probably wouldn't like them so much if they are not that worth". Come on. There are millions of Britney Spears fans. Do I like her? No! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 I guess the difference betweetn a pop-singer like for example Britney Spears and a psy act like Hallucinogen is that Hallucinogen make their music themself. S. Posford uses his time to compose the music, to search samples and what else is necessary to make a song. And I also think that he only publishes stuff he likes. Â Britney just sings the songs others have written for her and and without technical help she maybe (just a guess) couldn't even sing properly. Of course she also has to use her time to work at the choreographies for the shows and beeing a beauty queen. But I don't think she has a lot to say about what she wants to do. She's more or less a puppet on a string for her record label. A lot of people just adore her because of her looks, and I don't think this is common in the psy scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spindrift Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Well, more ppl still like britney than hallucinogen, even if it is a whole team working on "her". The very purpose of this thread was music that you dislike but most people love. For me anyway the amount of promotion, hype and populartiy doesn't decide what I personally rate highly. Â Artists I do rate highly and though contributed a lot to the kind of sound i like is guys like Eat-static, tip and koxbox. Â I just never liked halluciongens stuff, it sounds boring, pretentious and never made me really dance. That i said after first time I heard him in London 1995, and he never made anything after that that convinced me otherwise. I have slightly more respect for Astral Projection because they sure made me dance with a couple of their tracks, but they are not really making the kind of music i mostly prefer and there is many atists that done a lot more good tracks than them. Total Eclipse for example is mentioned a lot less....but i think personally the contributed more for the kind of hyper-melodic style. Doof you don't see at all as much talk about today, and i would also rate him far above both astral projection and hallucinogen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
las22 Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Eskimo and Melicia !! Â i totally hate this both artist. 199219[/snapback] melicia ....bark!!!! Â very very bad ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Total Eclipse for example is mentioned a lot less....but i think personally the contributed more for the kind of hyper-melodic style. Â Indeed. Involved in the scene since early 90's, they were THE act around 1994-1995 in Europe. But for some obscure reasons, they are seldom mentioned as a key influence on the scene. Â Back to the point : I don't appreciate Atmos, Hux Flux, Planet BEN and Cosma's music that much. Â From a more general point of view, I have a hard time with any music deprived of melodies (like Techtrance or the noisy Scando sound) and Full-on which I find overall pretty boring (with lots of exceptions of course). Â J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Le Lotus Bleu Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Hallucinogen (his goa stuffs not too much his chill ones) Infected Mushroom (since Duvdev sings nearly on every track) Talamasca Sirius Isness Eskimo Astral Projection (all what they done after Dancing Galaxy) Alien Project (all since his beginning) Orion (same as Alien Project) Son Kitte GMS/1200 Mics  hum probably i forget still lots of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eleria Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 @Tatsu: For me it's not the issue, if somebody has produced his music entirely on his own or not. In trance groups you also have more than one member and they have different influences on the actual outcome. I was merely talking about the reactions of people to a certain music. Seraph was writing: "people probably wouldn't like them so much if they are not that worth" and I think, that being liked and being worth doesn't necessarily correlate. Artists or styles of music get hyped and that has an effect on how many people like it. I don't deny, that Hallucinogen is a good producer, or say that he didn't make his own and different style, but I think that maybe also in his case you should consider, that he had close connection to a record label very early, when there wasn't that much music released and he got promoted well and that he became known and popular also due to that. And yes, something has to be popular to be overrated. And in the end it's a matter of taste again. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Le Lotus Bleu Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 I add Etnica except their Crop Circles - Full Mental Jackpot remix they never did for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 I just wanted to point out, that it's difficult to compare pop stars to psy stars because they might be loved for different reasons. That it's more about music in psy than in pop where the looks and image counts more and more. Â But you're right about the promotional thing. Simon also released stuff with different projects so his name is very well known also besides Hallucinogen. On the other hand you could say that if he wasn't this talented he wouldn't have been promoted this much. Which still leaves the possibility of beeing overrated of course. I think it is a bit a personal thing. Â Spindrift also mentioned Total Eclipse and Doof that didn't get as much attention as Hallucinogen, even if they are also superb artists. I think mabe the problem is that especially Doof hasn't released an album for ages (at least as much as I know). I think he collaborated with a guy from GMS for the first Vatos Locos album, but I don't know of any other stuff he did lately. So he has another status than Posford and it is also very easy for people to forget about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eleria Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Tatsu: On the other hand you could say that if he wasn't this talented he wouldn't have been promoted this much. Â I think you can't generally say it that way, because that is just not how hyping and marketing works. The actual talent doesn't necessarily correlate with the amount of promotion at all. It depends on your contacts and on how much money the label has got to invest in PR. You basically just said, that Britney has got more talent than Posford, because she get's promoted more than him. And don't tell me, that psy trance is about music only. Since there are stages and CDs being pressed, the scene went past that. It might not be as simple as "the looks", but of course there is the coolness factor and your image, that influences if people like your music or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 That's exactly the opposite what I wanted to say!!! Of course you can't measure the talent of an artist only from the promotion he gets. And I also don't want to generalise this, I was just talking about S. Posford. Â What I wanted to say, is that Dragonfly promoted Hallucinogen this much because they saw his talent (which does not mean that he has more talent than Doof for example, don't get me wrong) and of course they thougth they could make money out of it. (That's at least what I believe, of course I can be wrong because I don't know any responsible from Dragonfly or any other label) Â Britney gets supportet not because of her talent as singer but because she gets a certain image for the buyers. Because the label knows guys think she's hot and girls wanna be like her (because they are manipulatet by the press and/or society to believe she is the ultimate). Â And psytrance is not only about music, you are right. But it is much more about music than pop like Britney is. I mean I've never seen screaming girls at psy parties holding sings with *Duvdev, I wanna have sex with you* or anything similiar. This is not very common in the electronic music scene in general I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eleria Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Hi Tatsu, I get your point and I don't really disagree with you, it's just that I think that the way labels and marketing works in the trance scene is not that different from the popindustry. Of course not as extreme, but that is only a matter of how much money is involved I think. Sure Dragonfly saw Posford's talent and thought they could sell his music well, but I think that is not the main reason. If he wouldn't have been living in England and been friends with the label guys, things might have gone quite different for him. Also in the trance scene you need your connections. I think the only reason why the girls don't sream at Duvdev is, that it is not the appropriate behavior in the trance scene. I am sure there are quite a few girls that are into IM or GMS, or whatever, because they find the guys cute and are dreaming of spending the night with them and are hanging pictures on their wall and writing their names on their schoolbenches. And the guys find Riktam&Bansi really cool, because they get all the attention they get and admire them for that. When you look at a dancefloor nowadays most of the people are facing the stage and looking at the DJ/artists, when in fact there is not much to see at all. The more it is about CD sales and standing on the stage infront of a crowd, the less it is about the music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Hi Tatsu, I get your point and I don't really disagree with you, it's just that I think that the way labels and marketing works in the trance scene is not that different from the popindustry. Of course not as extreme, but that is only a matter of how much money is involved I think. Sure Dragonfly saw Posford's talent and thought they could sell his music well, but I think that is not the main reason. If he wouldn't have been living in England and been friends with the label guys, things might have gone quite different for him. Also in the trance scene you need your connections. Â I absolutely agree with that! Of course you need connections, but only with connections you don't get far I think. You have to have a bit of talent. If he would have lived in Israel maybe BNE or Hommega would have signed him. Who knows... And you are also right about that the marketing in the psy scene isn't much different as in the pop industry. But it's much smaller, as you said, I think this makes a difference. Â About the people staring at the DJ stage: I haven't been to much parties lately but here there are still most people dancing and not staring at the DJ. And I hope it stays this way! But of course I'm happy for every DJ who gets his groupies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eleria Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Tatsu, I guess the parties in Switzerland are quite small and people still come for music&danceing mainly. Here in Sweden it is also like this and I am happy about that, because that is the only kinds of parties I really enjoy. Â Here are a few pictures, just to demonstrate what I was talking about and refere to as the "stage effect". Â http://www.fotolog.net/traaance/?pid=8719432 http://www.fotolog.net/traaance/?photo_id=8668719 http://www.fotolog.net/traaance/?photo_id=8610063 http://www.fotolog.net/traaance/?photo_id=8636758 Â Greets and smiles to you :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Thanks for the picture, now I see what you mean! It looks more like a pop-concert. We don't have parties that are this big, you are right. The biggest one is Zoom after the Streetparade. I think there were about 20000 people counted together in 2 or 3 days. But the rest is much smaller. Â Greetings back to Sweden! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaman of sound Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 i hate most of alien project and raja ram stuf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepita-Jimenez Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 1. skazi 2. alien project 3. infected mushroom 4. void 5. paranormal attack 6. sharigrama 7. raja ram  and all chemical crew sucks!!!!  and i love simon posford say what you say i love hallucinogen in dub and younger brother,,, yeaaa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepita-Jimenez Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 1. skazi 2. alien project 3. infected mushroom 4. void 5. paranormal attack 6. sharigrama 7. raja ram  and all chemical crew sucks!!!!  and i love simon posford say what you say i love hallucinogen in dub and younger brother,,, yeaaa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. G Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 For me it's Eskimo & Skazi, and I simply cannot understand why so many people like them.. and the new stuff of infected.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinos Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 I have to reply on this! Â X-Dream is WAY overrated, at least the Irritant album. It sucked, simply enough. Hallucinogen is a BIT overrated, but not much. (trancespotter! ) Â Shpongle are gods, and the ones of you who don't agree are crazy. Nothing compares to them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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