Guest djnemo Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 I like using Monkeys audio since its free, and it lets me store my Wav files with no loss at a 50% compression. I havent read or tested FLAC yet, so I am not going to say anything about it hehe 202676[/snapback] Compression seems to be better in Monkeys Audio, but you are right, those couple of percent might be worth it going over to FLAC, since its open source Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spindrift Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 The differences is minute for sure, and I was intially thinkning to have ape format on resonantearth, but got convinced to go with FLAC. The difference in compression is about 2.5% in favour for ape. FLAC also have support in a few hardware players and is streamable. According to FLAC their encoding is marginally faster, according to ape their is faster, but decoding should be more than twice as fast with FLAC. With a compression format like this it really makes sense with open source. You remember the old jpg discussion? Apparently all products using jpg code should have to pay a fee to use the codec. I don't know what happened to that. It was a lot of talk about png taking over instead, but that didn't happen. The lossless audio is in it's infancy though, and ape is already less established. Partly due to the faster decompression and streaming, but also the risk of monkeysaudio going ape and charge for using their codec, hardware manufacturers seem to prefer FLAC, and i can't find one single shop selling ape still, but like i said there is a few selling flac already. But in the end from a business angle, mp3 is just fine. The main majority of people is not bothered if they have wav or well encoded 320k mp3. And reality is that very very few audio professionals can hear the difference in a blindtest between wav and lame encoded 320k mp3. FLAC take three times more bandwidth and space, which is not so much a problem for a small site like resonantearth, but for the bigger ones it still can be. I hope people will get used slowly to the advantages of buying their music for digital delivery online. Personally i think CD's is crap. I try to keep them carefull, but they are still fucked after about a year a lot of the time. Sound quality becomes bad due to error correction from scratched and fingerprints, and even worse they get stuck. I always grab any CD i have to keep it intact and be able to play it from the computer. Think about the nature at least and stop that plastic obsession Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherlockalien Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 hey spindrift.. indeed cd's get scratched and stuff.. But I still preffer much more to have the original with the cover and stuff.. and I can always back up on my computer with a FLAC codec.... =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spindrift Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 But I still preffer much more to have the original with the cover and stuffGo on..kill mother nature then as you wish... Jk CD's is a bad format and has the shortest storage time of any media i know of, and i hope it get phased out quickly. For me the original should be the file that you can trust is 100% intact. A CD will give you loss of data with a tiny amount of dust or grease. A CD with FLAC or wav is at least reliable, but audio CD's you can't really trust IMO. And to me it seems more logical if i can get hold of the format i actually use from the start, and it's fast to backup the audio data compared to grabbing a CD, at least if you want to do it properly. And about the artwork..stuff printed from a printer is much more radiant since printers use RGB colour instead of CMYK...so you get better looking covers if you have a good printer and paper than on a CD in the shop. If the artwork would not be made for offset print in the first place of course. So...if the flac files is made directly from wav by the label and the artwork is RGB you get a better looking cover and you can be sure the sound is 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherlockalien Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 about the cover: but you are considering that the cover picture file you have is good quality in the first place... when you buy flac, does it come with the cover? I guess not.. and if you can get it, you will get it as a shitty scan file... So I guess all this discussion depends on whether we're talking about something for the future, or something for now... for the future, for sure cd's arent the best thing... but for now, I still think they are better than flac files... and like I said, the grease/scratch thing, you can always encode it just after you get the cd, before there is any scratch... unfortunately I dont have a good printer.. so I couldnt print good covers.. and even if it sounds somehow stupid, if the cover has more than 1 page, in the original it is all nicely cut and all in one booklet, whereas if you print it at home, it will come in a clumsy big paper, each booklet page in a different paper, kinda clumsy... or is there some solution to that you think of? btw, what about the plasticky kind of paper that booklets normally have.. what is that? Can you get it for printing at home too? Is it expensive? Does it work with normal ink printers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spindrift Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 but you are considering that the cover picture file you have is good quality in the first place... when you buy flac, does it come with the cover? I guess not.. and if you can get it, you will get it as a shitty scan file...Sure, in most cases nowadays when it comes to downloading CD's it's either illegal copies via P2P, or from a site offering to sell downloads for the labels. In both those cases you would expect music to be grabbed from CD and covers being scans. I guess what we are talking about is the future on a larger scale, but it's of course allready possible and happening, Without sounding like a salesman at resonantearth the flac files is done directly from the wav that never been subceptible to CD audio error correction. The artists eiither send their masters via ftp or as wav on a data CD. Artwork is made in RGB colour and saved as 600dpi images for the customer. When doing covers for offset printing it can be really dissapointing when you convert the image to CMYK and get it back from the offset print. The RGB version made with a cheap printer on good paper will look a lot better, at leat if you tried to use any kind of radiant colours in the print. in the original it is all nicely cut and all in one booklet, whereas if you print it at home, it will come in a clumsy big paper, each booklet page in a different paper, kinda clumsy... or is there some solution to that you think of?Many new printers can print on two sides, which would make it a bit more convenient for a booklet. I have one that i bought for $10 as a bargain in a second hand shop. It's quite new still though and should costed a lot more of course The best looking paper i tried, and nicely stiff as well, is photopaper. It's not cheap really though. I think also there is paper specially for CD covers which is pre-stanced and everything. Personally I'm not really so bothered with covers and is really only after the music, but I don't think it's so much effort to print one out and cut it out...i rather do that than have to go to a shop or order and wait for days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shpongled Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 The bottom line is that everybody download mp3s but you don't talk about it in public forum like this (i mean you can't ask where to download illegally)... that should be common sence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rain Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 The bottom line is that everybody download mp3s but you don't talk about it in public forum like this (i mean you can't ask where to download illegally)... that should be common sence. 202742[/snapback] ... 100% correct ... ... and like your honest contribution... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taika-Kim Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Hmm, I didn't quite get that part about DAT trading... So it was more acceptable back when it was some elitistic sport of people who thought themselves better than others so as not to spread the tracks? I like to buy CDs that I really like, too. I like the idea of immaterial files more, thoug. Just as has been said already, CDs don't last very long and create a lot of waste, including heavy metals. I think the internet pay systems should be developed and somekind of global internet money be devised... Not everybody has access to credit cards, and credit card companies (and banks too BTW) are EVIL! I like the idea of being able to listen to some tracks and then just give money with a few mouse clicks to the artist... Myself being an artist who releases on the net, too! And YES, go and support FLAC & OGG! OGG sounds way better than mp3 to my ears, and it's opensource too. And the new hardware players support it. NP: Indoor - Sweet Coming Home - oooooh I'm in heaven, thankyou Avatar Records for finally making this album available!!!! I soooo love many tracks on this album Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukiro Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Hmm, I didn't quite get that part about DAT trading... So it was more acceptable back when it was some elitistic sport of people who thought themselves better than others so as not to spread the tracks? It was more acceptable when the trading was mainly focused on unreleased/unsigned stuff, and when there wasn't an established scene. Also, let's remember how the DAT trading started - people brought music on DATs to Goa and other asian party locations, where vinyl would melt. CD burners were hardly available and not within a reasonable price range. And as a lot of people brought stuff they had done themselves, specifically for the beach parties, they had studios and in those you had DATs, usually. From this persoective, the DAT trading has very little in common with MP3 trading. But the DAT scene spread back into europe ofcourse, and stayed alive even after you got the big labels going and stuff released on CDs. Partially because there were still unreleased stuff and partially because the whole I-give-you-this-and-you-give-me-that mentality is deeply rooten in the human essence. It's a material desire, even if the "material" in this case is music. And yes, the moral in the DAT scene was much higher than in the MP3 scene. I tried getting into DAT trading in 96 when I had access to studio grade DATs through school, but without anything nice to offer, it was impossible to get stuff, at least with my limited contacts living in the somewhat isolated northern Swedish forests. The MP3 scene with the "public" releases and P2P networks is nothing like the DAT scene. While I appreciate the opportunity to listen before I buy, I also despise the MP3 scene with it's "collectors" and DJs who play stuff they've downloaded off the net. I'm not saying the DAT traders were beacons of moral and justice, but it's degraded a whole lot with the transfer to MP3s. I like the idea of immaterial files more, thoug. Just as has been said already, CDs don't last very long and create a lot of waste, including heavy metals. I think the internet pay systems should be developed and somekind of global internet money be devised... Not everybody has access to credit cards, and credit card companies (and banks too BTW) are EVIL! CDs, if properly made, should last at least 20 years. My oldest ones are probably around 18 and I haven't noticed anything wrong with those. And I imagine the manufacturing process has only improved since the mid 80's. And regarding waste... yeah I guess you're right. But there are so many more serious threats to the environment that I can't quite bring myself to feel guilt for buying CDs. About credit card companies being evil... well, to some extent maybe. But I am a vegetarian and wholeheartedly despise the meat industry, yet I buy food in a store that also sells meat. And while the banking world may have corrupt morals, I rely on their services too. Any "internet currency" would be subject to the same evolution that you've seen in banks I'm afraid. I like the idea of being able to listen to some tracks and then just give money with a few mouse clicks to the artist... Myself being an artist who releases on the net, too! I wish I felt like you here - not that I don't want to pay artists, but I have this craving for real, physical records. It's my only true addiction... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spindrift Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 IMO the cassette and later DAT trading was not only elitistic. In Goa there was always about free parties, the DJ's don't get paid and the music was not being sold. If someone made a track they though would be appreciated they where very happy if a DJ wanted it to play. No-one was getting pissed off with any DJ's because he never bought CD's. It was of course ego involved and people who held the latest killer tracks for themself, but it was a lot more feeling of sharing in those day's for sure. Around 94-95 i5t started to go commercial, and there seemed to be money to be made in trance. Since then the spirit in the scene has changed a lot IMO. That it should be a problem for the scene that it's easy to get hold of the music and easy to get a setup to produce with is a strange idea for me. The most important for being a good producer or DJ surely must be to have talent and taste. That it's better if only the ones with connections and money get a chance, well yeah, thats how most things work....can be a nice element in our conservative trance scene. I think the internet pay systems should be developed and somekind of global internet money be devised... Not everybody has access to credit cards, and credit card companies (and banks too BTW) are EVIL!Paypal is not global really, but quite ok (most likely owned by a creditcard company though). It's a bit like 'internet money' but of course you have to get the funds in there from some kind of transfer from the real money system. There is options if you don't have a card to do that though. And I imagine the manufacturing process has only improved since the mid 80's.CD's seem to be of lower quality in general nowadays to me. I don't buy much CD's, but i bought a few last spring which was unplayable after a year, and i haven't kept them lying around open. I also have a few that is quite old, and they still play ok though. At least with a data file as original you don't have to worry about that and know that your music has never passed though any possibly degrading error correction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 We just want to share... So here is a few tracks we´ve made over the years for you and ALL you´r friends, including your neighbours daughter. Download, enjoy, share all you want from us, and all is legal. Troll Science, but legal. Troll on you and all your´ friends<3 We love all of you, and hopefully you all love each others as well. www.mikseri.net/trollscienz Be a troll, and be proud of it!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 The psytrance world desperately needs a hub for free sounds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taika-Kim Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 The psytrance world desperately needs a hub for free sounds! 206443[/snapback] Now THERE is a gooood idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahamut Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 psytrance is always one of the biggest rooms on Soulseek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 get dc plus plus, get public hubs, sort by names, connect to psyisrael,psyside,psychedelia,microdots etc ... but some require 5-10gb share Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryion Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Just as has been said already, CDs don't last very long ... 202796[/snapback] i have some pretty old cds and they all still deliever good quality as long as u handle them with care and dont play frisbee with them they will remain in good condition. i dont see the problem in that cd discussion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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