vancbc Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 When I first started listening to electronica in general, I would read music reviews that would extol the virtues of a certain artist or album. Sometimes a reviewer would state that the album in question was for the mature electronica listener. I never understood that statement at that time. Somehow over time I have begun to understand and without really being able to explain it, I also know when I hear something that is for the mature ear. Does this phenomenon also hold for psy/Goa as well? I'm particularly interested in Goa. Is Goa accessible to everyone regardless of their maturity with respect to the genre, or are there some artists or works that can only really be appreciated by the critical ear of the connossieur? The basis for my question is Pleiadians - I.F.O. Two years ago when I purchased this album, I gave it a whirl and disliked it. I thought it sounded like a bunch of jangled noises ran together with an irritating razor acid edge to it. Consequently I put it away. In the past year I have been moving more and more into the psy/goa arena in my musical tastes. A couple of weeks ago I pulled I.F.O. out and put it on my home stereo system. I was completely and absolutely blown away by the exquisite production value and beauty of this album. It is truly incredible. What changed? Did I? I would like to hear some discussion on this topic and also some examples of what would be considered fully accessible psy/Goa versus what albums/artists would be considered delicacies perhaps only to the more discerning, mature ear. Or is it just all subjective to the individual? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Hello again... I think it is a difficult topic you raise. There certainly is some kind of an effect music can have on the ear that grows with time and experience, but I'm not always certain that the word maturity is used without bias. What is the logical end point, at which one is fully mature? Uh, deep house music? Ambient? Total silence? I think the effect is more of a personal development - as one experiences music the mind becomes more acclimated to a particular sound, influenced highly by that person's own experience of life. I find it tough to figure, because when I got started in this scene I really enjoyed some artists that I now loathe, and contrarywise did not appreciate classic artists like Etnica until further listening had somehow opened up my mind to sounds I had previously found lacking, and sealed the fate of music I was to rapidly discard in that early time of rapid acclimatization to psychedelic sounds. Perhaps this maturity manifests as my current taste, which ranges rather far and wide within the psychedelic trance genre, and tends to shift in ponderous steps rather than grand epiphanies and shocking realizations that used to overcome me when something broke through to my center. In essence, I consider growth of musical taste as individual as the taste itself - a mirror of the self that grows as you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vancbc Posted January 11, 2005 Author Share Posted January 11, 2005 Basilisk, that is a very interesting response and one that I can highly respect. It also raises some very valid questions that have mirrored some of my own thoughts and experiences as I have watched my tastes in music evolve. I too have questioned where the pinnacle of maturity in electronica lies. Who collectively is deciding what is 'hot' and what is not? Based on my experiences with mainstream trance, aural maturity is often equated to a transition from highly melodic Dutch trance to harder trance to progressive trance/house until the progression has reached a point where you are left with nothing but thumping bass beats. In some cases, this manifests as an elitist technophile attitude where anything but minimal arrangements with nothing but a bass line and no melody is considered 'cheese'. This 'keeping up with the Joneses' for the sake of being on the cutting edge can be an easy trap into which to fall. I jumped on the bandwagon for awhile and began my own progression down that tuneless road until I realised that music should be listened to that makes the soul and spirit soar. From reading these forums, I seem to see a bit of the same thing happening in the psy scene. In my other thread, Seraph's brief history of the genre was really eye opening. It appears that there was a shift from Goa into 'full-on' and more minimal and progressive styles. Whether or not this represents what people see as maturity in the psy scene or just a natural evolution of the genre is unknown to me. I sometimes wonder what factor popular opinion has in musical tastes. There have been some albums that were purported to be masterpieces. I would listen to them and think they were crap. It was only after repeated listenings that they began to grow on me and I began to really appreciate them for what they were. Anyway, sorry to ramble. Music is fascinating to me. I grew up in a background where I had absolutely no exposure to secular music until I was 21. I was in a society largely closed to the outside world and in the absence of even radio and television my only exposure to music was vocal gospel hymns sung acapella. I wonder if the progression or evolution of music is in a sense cyclical. As little as a year ago, I was hard pressed to find the Dutch producer Armin Van Buuren's albums anywhere in the city of Vancouver. Now I am noticing on the shelves of music stores such as Virgin that there is a plethora of his productions and trance music in general from many different subgenres, including psy. This seems to fly in the face of the common mantra that "trance is dead." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinos Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 The question is: Is music that only grows on you slowly good, or is it brainwashing executed by bad music? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukiro Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 This is a very interesting topic. Within any genre there is music that is simplified and overstated in comparison to the early genre-defining releases. So while 90's Astral Projection stuff might be distilled goa trance, the concept stripped and purified to it's bare essentials - me any many others are put off by this simplified music even though we proclaim to love goa trance. On the opposite side of the scale, we find the understated - restrained arrangements, subtle hints of melodies and structures. This is what progressive psytrance started out as, but that bandwagon was quickly jumped by people who didn't share the vision of the initial concept and we were flooded with mass produced off-beat bass tracks with a hihat, a snare and some synth farts. Album after album of the stuff, too - so suddenly the matured, restrained sounds were even less mature and intelligent than the stuff it grew out of. There is also the mature branch of maximalistic music, with layers and patterns so intricate and interwoven that it takes a trained ear to make sense of the cacophony, to be able to keep up with the shifts and twists and turns. But when one is able to do so, the reward is great, hence the praise for I.F.O. for example. There are always a vast amount of reasons as to why some artists make it bigger than others in any given scene, but I think Astral Projections popularity lies in that their music is so stripped of compex depth that it's instantly understandable for the beginner, and to some extent this is true for Infected Mushroom as well - quite a different sound, but easily identifiable and unique and not at all subtle. Pleiadians, on the other hand, has reached popularity much more through the merits of their musicality, the deeper rewards of their music. This is ofcourse my personal opinion and no objective truth, but I believe many will agree. The same thing can be seen in many other genres too. I find the more mindboggling stuff to be an acquired taste - tracks I thought were completely nonsensical when I first heard them are now my among my favourites, but some are still so demanding that it takes the proper mood for me to get into them properly. But once there, I get so much more out of them than I would from more "mainstream" tracks and acts. It's a bit like with books - while Tolkien or Rowling appeals to a wider audience, the more intricate and multi-facetted stories of less known authors give the reader (given that he/she "gets it") a much richer experience. Also compare hollywood blockbusters to, say, independent european films. --- Edit: spelling errors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinos Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 There are always a vast amount of reasons as to why some artists make it bigger than others in any given scene, but I think Astral Projections popularity lies in that their music is so stripped of compex depth that it's instantly understandable for the beginner, and to some extent this is true for Infected Mushroom as well - quite a different sound, but easily identifiable and unique and not at all subtle. Pleiadians, on the other hand, has reached popularity much more through the merits of their musicality, the deeper rewards of their music. This is ofcourse my personal opinion and no objective truth, but I believe many will agree. The same thing can be seen in many other genres too. 210763[/snapback] Astral Projection are just as complex as Pleiadians, just in an ordered manner. Listen to Nilaya and Liquid Sun - both generate a deep liquid, multibottomed picture, which actually is just as complicated as, say, Asterope or Maia. The difference is only in the "type" of sound. While Pleids use acid, screamy sounds that take time to get used to, Astral do it fluffily with harmonic synths. Take Shpongle for example - people usually like their music at first listen, yet you always discover more and more details. Also compare hollywood blockbusters to, say, independent european films. 210763[/snapback] They aren't necessarily better. My favorite movie is the Matrix, and it doesn't ride on the complextity, but instead on the atmosphere. No independent films come close to it. So that's what I've spent annoyingly long to try to say: it's not the complexity level that defines what music people like, it's the atmosphere. People who listen to both Astral and Pleidadians, tend to sink deep into both kinds of music, sometimes wanting harmony, and sometimes chaos, instead of growing out of Astral after discovering something new. --- First time I ever wrote that long a post. Does it make any sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatpat Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 There's alot of music I like now but wouldnt have liked a few years ago. One of the reasons is Ive learnt to keep an open mind. I find the more I listen to a certain genre, the quicker I can grow to love a track or album of that genre. For example the past year or so Ive mostly listened to psytrance... so now I can grab an album, listen to it, and decide whether I like it or not in the first or second listen. It can also depend on what mood Im in too though. Sometimes I can listen to Spirallianz and Midi Miliz and sometimes I cant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIT Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Everybody got own fav syle and everybody in the past dislike somekind of music wich in nowadays like. It's not about the kind of music or artist, it's becouse of person! If you remember what you like as you were a child and how this is evolve you can be realy get flurried I think just after years of listening music you can understand better the magic of sound(no matter what kind of sound) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukiro Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Astral Projection are just as complex as Pleiadians, just in an ordered manner. Listen to Nilaya and Liquid Sun - both generate a deep liquid, multibottomed picture, which actually is just as complicated as, say, Asterope or Maia. The difference is only in the "type" of sound. While Pleids use acid, screamy sounds that take time to get used to, Astral do it fluffily with harmonic synths. Well the type of sound used adds or detracts from the complexity just as much as the arrangements, in my opinion. And I don't quite agree that Astral reaches the same genious in terms of overall structure that Pleiadians did. There is no certain way of measuring this so I can see this argument being pretty futile, but while at any given point in those tracks they may equal the complexity of some I.F.O. track, the overall structure is a whole other story I think. Take Shpongle for example - people usually like their music at first listen, yet you always discover more and more details. I would argue that in this case Shpongle partially falls into the same category as Infected Mushroom - the sounds are so unique and become instantly recognizable, that it will appeal to first-time listeners. Also, there is a level of sheer quality to Shpongle that makes them deserve the sales they get - it's not necessarily linked to the complexity of the music. They aren't necessarily better. My favorite movie is the Matrix, and it doesn't ride on the complextity, but instead on the atmosphere. No independent films come close to it. So that's what I've spent annoyingly long to try to say: it's not the complexity level that defines what music people like, it's the atmosphere. People who listen to both Astral and Pleidadians, tend to sink deep into both kinds of music, sometimes wanting harmony, and sometimes chaos, instead of growing out of Astral after discovering something new. Well obviously our affection to any particular branch of popular culture has to do with the emotions it evokes! What I tried to say is that something that may seem incomprehensible and nonsensical at a first listen may in fact hide greater rewards than the stuff you get into right away. I'm not saying you can't enjoy both - I don't listen to harsh brainfuckery music all day, we all need a bit of variation. Within any genre I enjoy, I have records ranging from cheesy mass-appeal stuff to underground, die-hard, extreme stuff for those moments when you want to push your head as far as it'll go. But over the years, my tolerance for the cheesy shifts gradually and I find myself more and more allergic to generic, mainstream "background music" and I can now enjoy (and very much so!) music thats so extreme that just a few years ago I would have refused to even call it music. And at the same time I get more enjoyment out of music today than I did 10 years ago, I think. So hence my argument that more "difficult" music (as in complex or odd or whatever) hides greater rewards than the stuff thats instantly appealing. And regarding the comment that no idependent film comes close to the matrix... it is an opinion you have every right to have, but I can't help thinking you haven't seen that many good films. But I won't discuss that further, as it's not the topic of this thread and I'll willingly admit I'm no movie buff myself =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuff Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 The same thing that occured to 'vancbc' with I.F.O. happened to me with Atmos album "Headcleaner". I first bought it in year 2000 and wasn't completely.... satisfied. Gave it a few listens and then just totally forgot about it.. At the time i wasn't listening to much psytrance either (but almost every other genre of electronic music), the Atmos album was the only 'fresh' trance album i had (only owned some 'older' Sun Trip and D.G.-releases from around 1996-97). Though I was aware that "Headcleaner" clearly was better than the publics definition of 'trance music' (the commercial-mainstream-cheese-teenager-style that had been popping up since the late 90's ; ) it just wasn't interesting enough for my liking at the moment. [btw, my real definition of trance music was stuff like The Source Experience, the rest was an insult to the name of the genre ; ) except from Atmos which for me was the new type of 'trance' that hopefully could bring back some decency to the title of the genre, tho it wasn't my cup of tea ;-] But a few years later when digging it up again, i was totally stunned by the serious piece of art that kept flowing out of my speakers throughout every side of the Headcleaner LP. The record just blew me away and i've loved it since then. One amusing thing to add in this subject is that i've to thank Infected Mushroom for me liking Atmos again =). By an accident I discovered their 'Classical Mushroom'-album (which almost is a quite opposite style in the genre compared to Atmos progressive moods) and it was the opening gate for me to make me think the way i needed to like the whole psytrance-journey again. By that I slowly was able to dig deeper into the music and explore all the types of expressions that had been coming up in the scene since my last journey in psychedelia (a Goa-period in the 90's). Then it came to the point where i found my 'Headcleaner' LP again and just by listening to the first track (a track which i kind of ignored five years ago) "Fill The Hat" - which gotta be the best album opening ever btw! - I was attached forever. So thanks to some loud full-on-Israelians i can appreciate some deep-progressive-Scandinavian trance again! Astral Projection are just as complex as Pleiadians, just in an ordered manner. Listen to Nilaya and Liquid Sun - both generate a deep liquid, multibottomed picture, which actually is just as complicated as, say, Asterope or Maia. That I agree! & i never lost my faith in Astral Projection in particular, though they seem to receive some bad reviews in various forums these days (mostly youngsters) and they might be one of the most 'commercial acts' in the history of this music, - I feel that there are few acts that really deserves the 'success' and the cred as well as Astral P if focusing on what has happened while they were productive. And just by listening to the 7 y.o. "Dancing Galaxy" now in 2005 and it still gives me the chills that few other records gives me, tells me something. And i also recently hooked up with the old SFX work from before they formed A.P (as everyone in here already knows so i don't know why i have to add it), and some of the shite they released back then must have been so f*cking cool and unique to listen at in ~ 1992-93. (back then i only heard some hardcore rave from the uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rain Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 this is my personal expierience & vision not intending to create generality... Liking an album depends on if the right conditions are present... what I mean is that If I chose to listen to a release it depends on how I feel, how my day is... Am I happy, bored, little sick, not in the mood, tired from studying and etc... And that is mostly what influences the way how I listen to a new release... I'll try to explain with one condition... For example when I'm coming home from a hard day university and I had to chose an album to listen that is one of my fauvorite (the ones I heared a thousand times ) I would chose 'progressive'... because it has a strong bass line and keeps me busy not falling a sleep but still is not to overloaded cause I am tired & don't want a melody thrown to my head every second... But then I chose to listen to something to something 'new' cause everybody knows the need of fresh music... and that's when it goes wrong... When I'm tired I chose an album not really knowing if it's fullon, progressive (sometimes you listen to samples but everybody knows that you can't judge goa on 15 seconds bases)... & I chose the wrong one... Instead of chosing a progressive album I picked album that's fucking fullon & I'm so annoyed don't like it... bwaaaaaaaah don't like this at all... it sucks... but it doesn't it' just my mood that sucks... not the music.... this example can be referred to many other conditions that are different for any individual... just like when you hear an album for the first time after a party at home, still awake (you know why ).... it's a killer bomb... such a good album... what I'm trying to say is an album has to introduce himself at the right time with the right espectations & the right contents... If that happens you'll love it forever.... lots of albums I disliked when I'm tired I just looooooooved playing before going out at a party... If you don't like an album give it a second change another time you might get lucky... And the biggest conditions that influences the way you like albums is how long you have been listening to psytrance and going out to parties... Many newcommers don't understand why 'Pleiadians - I.F.O. (identified flying object)' is that good... & that's normal... A lot of albums that I didn't like two years agoo I do like them right now cause I wasn't ready to understand back then... last but not least I'd like to add one thing... 100% goatrance like Pleiadians - I.F.O. grows on you... in the beginning you don't get the clue but listening after a while you understand how complicate it is and how well done the artist created their work... goatrance goes on forever & when you like an album you'll never stop liking it... Morning fullon released 2003-2004 are all tracks when you listen to it the first time ' it's like baaaaaaaaaaaam this is good' woooooooooow this is a killer' but after 5 times listen you're bored... it's one of the biggest marks of commercial trance = consumption society - we use it, abuse it, throw it away & replace it... ps: Or is it just all subjective to the individual? 210475[/snapback] yés it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Empty Space Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Well, I am always getting into different bands and music, and then sometimes my new interests push away old interests... I have a ton of old CD's I never listen to anymore (EBM, top-40 rock CD's, hair-metal, early-industrial albums like Throbbing Gristle, Einsturzende Neubauten, cheesy metal like White Zombie, etc) And I currently listen to music I thought I'd never like when I was younger like punk, hardcore metal, psy/hard techno (went thru a bunch of different phases when teenager, first grunge rock, then goth, Neu-hippie, then punk and now a sort of metalhead-punk-rocker... Had an identity crisis for a long time hahaha) My taste in drugs hasn't changed much though, aside from slowing down (big time) in usage... LSD, MDMA, THC, Psilocybin, Caffeine, and a good old friend named Ethyl-alcohol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraph Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Well, your perception of reality changed, not their music obviously. When I heard that album first, I couldn't believe my ears. It was exactly type of trance I like and have been waiting for. Since you said you were into house and progressive music I can say that your ears didn't apply to the screaming psychedelia. I know a lot of people that simply can't get into it, not conciously, but biologically. You see, someone is predetermined to feel it, someone is doomed not to understand it. I see it like that, and it is obvious that your perception brooden and now you are ready to experience something different in your life. If you happen to be more open to it than before, then start with excessive using of trance and goa, it will enlighten you in no time. I was enlightened after first 2 months of listening back in 1996. I took this music too seriously, injected it intraveined and now am only floating and enjoying in as many goods this brilliant hippy ideology is providing us with... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.