Spindrift Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 I'm not so much in to classical, maybe much due to the fact that I do not like pretentious sounding music much. But there is a lot of classical wich anyone with a slight knowledge about composing must admire the skills of the composer. The same can not be said about Simon. If I told my father for example, who is a composer himself, that I think that spongles melodies is amazing or genius he would think I had lost my mind. And what makes me in agony when listening to some spongle stuff is like I said the combination of pretentions and navite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinos Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 And what makes me in agony when listening to some spongle stuff is like I said the combination of pretentions and navite. 212124[/snapback] I can't really hear anything pretentious about Shpongle. All the melodies are subtle and mature if you ask me. Sometimes funny, but never pretentious or naive. Listen to Day Turned To Night for example, and try to tell me it's naive and/or pretentious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asura Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 I can't really hear anything pretentious about Shpongle. All the melodies are subtle and mature if you ask me. Sometimes funny, but never pretentious or naive. Listen to Day Turned To Night for example, and try to tell me it's naive and/or pretentious. 212126[/snapback] And Day turned to night is a fantastic opus, my favorite by far... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moai Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Were? You mean they aren't anymore, on Family Of Light? As for me, Si is superior to Pleiadians in terms of melodies... 212100[/snapback] yes, they are not anymore! do you think etnicas last 3 releases comes close to ifo or family of light? perhaps pleiadians are expressing different kinds of feelings but if u look @ complex structure of pleiadians melodies i believe they are a bit more mature. i agree that simon has better "sound" but melodies is another thing! look at alcyone, Meter, petalec vibes, zeta reticuli, maia, headspin, vimana, electra etc. that is melodic talent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hels Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 I can't really hear anything pretentious about Shpongle. All the melodies are subtle and mature if you ask me. Sometimes funny, but never pretentious or naive. Listen to Day Turned To Night for example, and try to tell me it's naive and/or pretentious. 212126[/snapback] See, we can't...we can definitely comment on it's complexity though...and the only way it's more complex than classical music is how many layers of itty bitty voices and crap in it... Complexity isn't subjective..."richness, pretentiousnes, maturity, subtlety"...those things are subjective... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 i agree that simon has better "sound" but melodies is another thing! look at alcyone, Meter, petalec vibes, zeta reticuli, maia, headspin, vimana, electra etc. that is melodic talent! 212138[/snapback] Yeah and look at The Lone Deranger album.If Pleiadians created a psychedelic masterpiece with IFO then Simon created a psychedelic fairytale with The Lone Deranger.And fairytales are those that last forever.Anyway Simon vs Pleiadians would never stop,we could talk about it for ages.Not to say that in the more melodic point of view MFG where better than Pleiadians.Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trolsk Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Much of the Hallucinogen is production wise actually is quite bad as well. If you isten to tip yellow compilation for example you have to admit that Shamanix does not strike you as well produced compared to the rest of the tracks. 212049[/snapback] Listen to The Infinity Projects "Feeling Wierd" album, there's a couple of tracks that stand out a lot production/quality wise, Posford is involved in all of them. The same goes for most compilations where Posford have been involved. Shamanix might be the exception, it's definitely not the norm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trolsk Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 What makes Posford special is the flow and transistion in his compositions and that everpresent earthy/shroomy vibe. Few can recreate a psychedelic state of mind like he can and there's an atmosphere in Posfords work that few can compete with. I dare say that noone has influenced the psychedelic trance scene as much as he has. Both his Hallucinogen and Shpongle albums have pushed the boundaries of psychedelic music. I am confident that must people who have worked with Posford have been hugely influenced by him and learned a lot of new tricks. Consider the total output of any person or group and compare that to Posfords work and I bet you will find that he stands above the rest. Furthermore, few groups have managed to evolve, push the boundaries and still remain psychedelic like Posford have. This might not be enough to declare someone a genius or a new Mozart, but it's enough to declare Posford as the most influential person in the psychedelic trance scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spindrift Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Listen to The Infinity Projects "Feeling Wierd" album,Sure I love feeling wierd. I would rather praise Graham than Simon for that album though. If I was convinced that Simon had more to do with that album than Graham I would totally change my view about him. But I don't think he had much to do with neither melodies or production. Considering how his own stuff sounded quality wise years after many of the tracks on feeling wierd was made I sincerly doubt it. Shamanix is not much worse than most of his early stuff. Listen again to the twisted album. Many of the tracks on feeling wierd is severeal years older and they are all better production than simons first album. I never liked it when it came out. Apart from production not being so good I could never get off on the dancefloor to the tracks. I must admit that after that I never followed hallucinogen much after that and considered him highly overrated and hyped. I though I give him a chance again when I started hearing everyone nagging about Shpongle, but although the production is clean there is just nothing that grabs me as interesting about the music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rain Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 can't understand this sphongle/sample fake hype with some people... I always believed that using samples was no problem at all... the trick is to make those samples psychedelic and paste into the story of psychedelic trance/ambient... the ones who believed that simon made all his samples by himself and found out afterwards are the ones who don't understand a thing about creating goa... goa has always been a music style that sampled a lot by making them psychedelic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gusc Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 damn people. you cant discuss melodies in this way. we are all individuals and that means we are being touched by music in totally different ways depending from everything to early childhood to life-experiences as well. what i think is more importent is trying giving music more time and have some patience. because music doesnt always grabbing you at the first time. i think personally that simons sence of melodies and rhythms is not genious, it just fits me and my musical nerves in my body. its just a coincidence. show some respect. we are different. to discuss melodies is one thing. to discuss musical levels is another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gusc Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 can't understand this sphongle/sample fake hype with some people... I always believed that using samples was no problem at all... the trick is to make those samples psychedelic and paste into the story of psychedelic trance/ambient... the ones who believed that simon made all his samples by himself and found out afterwards are the ones who don't understand a thing about creating goa... goa has always been a music style that sampled a lot by making them psychedelic... 212221[/snapback] psychadelic there, goa there and hallucinations there bla bla yada yada. ITS MUSIC. an artform. a way to express yourself. its creativity. not just like start furnishing a room to get some kind of mood and feeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spindrift Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 I agree that the comparasions made and trying to compare Mozart and Simon as talents is a bit silly. I just though that saying that the reason Mozart is considered a musical genius is because his music is old was a bit out. Maybe Simon would be for music what Andy Warhol has been for art. Very influential and well known. I would not really agree with that paralell either, but if you like Warhols art or not is a matter of taste. Andy Warhol is not a great painter and anyone with a bit of deent ideas and a talent for creating hype could be a Warhol or a Pollock. You might like their art very much and it might really speak to you, but you cannot expect people to agree when you say that "Warhol is such a talented painter". I'll be very surprised to hear someone who think van Eyck is not a good painter. Maybe it's boring and not very creative art for everyone, but his painting skills I think most people with a pair of eyes can see is quite exceptional. Simon is not a great composer or a otherworldy gifted producer. He obviously have a message for a lot of people, but not for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ban jhankri Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 I agree that the comparasions made and trying to compare Mozart and Simon as talents is a bit silly. 212287[/snapback] i agree...Simon is better... he is a god.... don't forget that simon is... hallucinogen,shpongle,dub trees,celtic cross,walter ego,infinity project,mystery of the yeti he is soooooo psychedelic....he is a drug.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moai Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 maybe simons music is hard to understand if u have not had a psychedelic experience. thats why some people dont get into the mood he is recreating with his music... even Simon himself said in a review he wants to make u feel like u have taken psychedelic drugs in the music !! that the music could be the drug! i remember a friend i played hallucinogen - the lone deranger for .. he listened and listened. and one time he said it was shit! how could one listen to this.. and then some years after he listened on it again at a psychedelic session, and his whole perspective to this music changed, and it is now one of his top 10 albums! what i meant was, maybe you could easier tune into simons intentions with his music if you have ever had some kind of psychedelic experience or altered sense of perception. about this mozart vs posford thing.. just drop it.. this is for the future generation to discuss .. maybe he will be declared after some generations! but what does it matter? genius or not? musical taste and opinion is still subjective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest .::E.P Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 maybe simons music is hard to understand if u have not had a psychedelic experience. thats why some people dont get into the mood he is recreating with his music... even Simon himself said in a review he wants to make u feel like u have taken psychedelic drugs in the music !! that the music could be the drug! i remember a friend i played hallucinogen - the lone deranger for .. he listened and listened. and one time he said it was shit! how could one listen to this.. and then some years after he listened on it again at a psychedelic session, and his whole perspective to this music changed, and it is now one of his top 10 albums! 212330[/snapback] Don't jump to conclusions now mate. I can't speak for other people here but I have done my share of psychedelic drugs in the past (I am sure quite a few in this topic have too) and I still don't find his music all that ! It's good music that i surely enjoy but don't put the poor man on a pidestal where he don't belong. Oh and by the way how many of you have actually had a talk with Simon since you all seem to be so amazingly aware of what he think and feel? I for one have had a few conversations with him in the past and "wake up call". He's not some kind of heavy psychedelic guru (god) that are out to colonise the world with his´views about drugs. Yes he's for sure done his share of drugs but his life do also surprisingly evolve around other things too Maybe some of his die hard "followers" could do with a bit less psychedelics once in a while - It should be so healthy PS! Don't you contradict yourself when you think that people that haven't done drugs dont understand his music when he as you quoted have said: "he wants to make u feel like u have taken psychedelic drugs in the music !! that the music could be the drug!" To me that sound like he want people to get the same feelings "as if" the were on drugs... Not nessesarely be on drugs and that he want the music to be the drug itself hey dont go and change your post after I answer you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asura Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 don't forget that simon is... hallucinogen,shpongle,dub trees,celtic cross,walter ego,infinity project,mystery of the yeti 212318[/snapback] Simon was member of Infinity PrOject too? Didn't know that. I'm happy to discover it, Infinity Project is for me one of the best ambient projects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hels Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 I agree that the comparasions made and trying to compare Mozart and Simon as talents is a bit silly. I just though that saying that the reason Mozart is considered a musical genius is because his music is old was a bit out. Maybe Simon would be for music what Andy Warhol has been for art. Very influential and well known. I would not really agree with that paralell either, but if you like Warhols art or not is a matter of taste. Andy Warhol is not a great painter and anyone with a bit of deent ideas and a talent for creating hype could be a Warhol or a Pollock. You might like their art very much and it might really speak to you, but you cannot expect people to agree when you say that "Warhol is such a talented painter". I'll be very surprised to hear someone who think van Eyck is not a good painter. Maybe it's boring and not very creative art for everyone, but his painting skills I think most people with a pair of eyes can see is quite exceptional. Simon is not a great composer or a otherworldy gifted producer. He obviously have a message for a lot of people, but not for me. 212287[/snapback] Finally, someone speaks some sense! I agree wholeheartedly, except that I do love Shpongle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spindrift Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 @Moai Yop are making a very good example of how sad many people is when trying to defend Simon as some kind of god. I had psychedelic experiences, and heard Hallucinogen first time when I was quite dosed up an acid. I just don't like his music. Sure if you sit down and listen to him on one of your first acid trips you might get the impression that he is god, but the same would be true for a lot of music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banjankri Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Simon was member of Infinity PrOject too? Didn't know that. I'm happy to discover it, Infinity Project is for me one of the best ambient projects. 212339[/snapback] Actually, Simon was NOT member of The Infinity Project, he just co-wrote/produced/"co-starred" on some of the tracks on their CD's. On Mystical Experiences, he co-wrote tracks 1, 2, 3 and 9 On Feelin' Weird, he co-wrote tracks 1,4, 6, 7, 10. Contrary to what many people think, The infinity project merely consisted of Raja Ram and Graham Wood, even though many of their tracks were co-written by major players like Simon, Doof, Sheldon Isaacs and many more. God, I miss the infinity boys. May they reunite some day and bring more of their beautiful ambient music back into the scene. Their music was among some of the greatest I've ever heard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinos Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 On Mystical Experiences, he co-wrote tracks 1, 2, 3 and 9 On Feelin' Weird, he co-wrote tracks 1,4, 6, 7, 10. 212363[/snapback] The best tracks off both CDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moai Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Don't jump to conclusions now mate. I can't speak for other people here but I have done my share of psychedelic drugs in the past (I am sure quite a few in this topic have too) and I still don't find his music all that ! It's good music that i surely enjoy but don't put the poor man on a pidestal where he don't belong. Oh and by the way how many of you have actually had a talk with Simon since you all seem to be so amazingly aware of what he think and feel? I for one have had a few conversations with him in the past and "wake up call". He's not some kind of heavy psychedelic guru (god) that are out to colonise the world with his´views about drugs. Yes he's for sure done his share of drugs but his life do also surprisingly evolve around other things too Maybe some of his die hard "followers" could do with a bit less psychedelics once in a while - It should be so healthy PS! Don't you contradict yourself when you think that people that haven't done drugs dont understand his music when he as you quoted have said: "he wants to make u feel like u have taken psychedelic drugs in the music !! that the music could be the drug!" To me that sound like he want people to get the same feelings "as if" the were on drugs... Not nessesarely be on drugs and that he want the music to be the drug itself hey dont go and change your post after I answer you 212332[/snapback] I mean that perhaps not everyone that isnt into psychedelic or mind expanding awareness can understand and enjoy the subtle ways of his music! i also believe you dont have to take psychedelics to enjoy it at all... but i believe you have to be receptive. i dont think pop-radio music people can sink into his music that easy! and yes, still there is something called personal taste and opinion, everyone cannot love the same stuff, I am not putting him on a piedestal.. if you have been paying attention to this thread i even said pleiadians had a higher intelligence than of simon when it comes to melodies! I was just stating that his music is more aimed to people with psychedelic minds! be it with drugs or without! i just think it is funny how people judge the music differently after experiencing it a psychedelic. i myself enjoy it without. steve roach or some meditation could be a better choice for more peaceful sessions. personally. What i said about him wanting to make you feel the music as on psychedelics, thats what ive been reading a long time ago in an interview! it is not my own assumption! i believe he has matured very much since that!! and why are you talking about gods? i have never said that he was a god! he looks just like an ordinary human. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moai Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 @Moai Yop are making a very good example of how sad many people is when trying to defend Simon as some kind of god. I had psychedelic experiences, and heard Hallucinogen first time when I was quite dosed up an acid. I just don't like his music. Sure if you sit down and listen to him on one of your first acid trips you might get the impression that he is god, but the same would be true for a lot of music. 212362[/snapback] again what is this about the god talk? all i know he is a good producer that is making good psychedelic music, personally for me! I also said a friend changed his perspective on hallucinogen but psy-music in general after a psychedelic experience! so maybe it was a new world that was open up, but still that is HIS masterpiece.. i started listen to lots of psychedelic music long before i even tried a psychedelic substance. and for me acts like transwave, pleiadians etc. surpasses simon in this "god" status that u are talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gusc Posted January 19, 2005 Author Share Posted January 19, 2005 this god or not-discussion is running in circles. i personally dont care about the samples. but i cant drop the thing that 50 seconds of PACO DE LUCIA is in the song 'around the world in a tea daze'. i mailed simon yesterday. i hope he is going to answer me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ban jhankri Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 i personally dont care about the samples. but i cant drop the thing that 50 seconds of PACO DE LUCIA is in the song 'around the world in a tea daze'. 212456[/snapback] so what? he took some boring guitars and made a masterpiece.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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