Lemmiwinks Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Well I decided to post this topic because I felt that if I read another post on how important having a good production is in a track or having a perfect beatmatch in a DJ set I was gonna explode!!! WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE??? I'm really getting the feeling that a LOT of people put form over substance here... yes, form is a big factor but substance is MUCH more important, isn't it? Like if you had the coice between a DJ set with excellent track selection and not-so-good beatmatching and a DJ set filled with boring tunes but with perfect beatmatch, would you really hesitate on which one to chose? Same goes for a boring and dull track with excellent production compared to a crazy tracks with not-so-good production... Am I the only one around here who thinks that way?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraph Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Hey Lemmi, I absolutely agree with you. I am also in the substance front and even though I do respect the form, I find substance the main thing, cause if you have perfect form, without substance you might as well go and make minimal music. For this kind of trance we are both respecting ( old school and psy that is ) the substance is everything but since no one is making this kind of music anymore, form did took every form. Crispy production, perfect rhythms, smooth structures are all fine, but for making progressive, minimal and crazy psy, but since there are no stories anymore or fairy tales or other dimensions in music I guess we have to settle with FORMING times. This decade is the decade of forms, last one was substance decade. I guess we will have to accept and finally shut up about it cause I am sure there will be 100 replies saying that form is more important than substance...Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest al3xandar Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Well I decided to post this topic because I felt that if I read another post on how important having a good production is in a track or having a perfect beatmatch in a DJ set I was gonna explode!!! WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE??? I'm really getting the feeling that a LOT of people put form over substance here... yes, form is a big factor but substance is MUCH more important, isn't it? Like if you had the coice between a DJ set with excellent track selection and not-so-good beatmatching and a DJ set filled with boring tunes but with perfect beatmatch, would you really hesitate on which one to chose? Same goes for a boring and dull track with excellent production compared to a crazy tracks with not-so-good production... Am I the only one around here who thinks that way?? 220481[/snapback] NAMASTE LEMMIE !!! Actually I was hoping that someone feels the same as me and was ready to post such topic...I'd rather go on some party and listen Transwave with bad mix skills than go on Astrix party with his DJ skills to mix...Phabula is more important for me I'd really enjoy someone's music and dance all night on his tracks even if his mix is not that good. I mean, listen to Kosmokrator from Goa Gil, it seems that he is gluing the tracks with super-glue, but I enjoy it much more than the stupid Stashbag from TIP records or whoever it was from Finally ... Namaste !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherlockalien Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 both are important imo.. the form is like a gift wrapping.. if you give a present for someone, and its wrapped around this ripped ugly pink brown and grey paper with santa claus and badly drawn mickey mouse, its not going to make a good impression... so yeah, substance may be the main thing, but I do think its good to have a nice form too.. btw, for great dj with perfect form and substance: tim healey (electric tease)... omg, honestly, the funny gay guy is rocking everybody, perfectly mixing good rock, electro, trance, house and tech, and making even fullon-only people dance like hell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAMbenjy Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 I AGREE but the crappy producing is a beautifull form on its own. your the best of the best then but only to a selected crowd i like that music more. you can keep listening to it take the muses rapt for example... mixing is another part that has to be perfect. you are dj for something is it not? here in belgium most dj's are able to mix very good. and then its sucky to go to a huge festival. to a " famous" dj . who plays the same tracks but doesn't mix them.. its all about politics. and the form is about making money togehter with your friends in politic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rain Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Like if you had the coice between a DJ set with excellent track selection and not-so-good beatmatching and a DJ set filled with boring tunes but with perfect beatmatch, would you really hesitate on which one to chose? Same goes for a boring and dull track with excellent production compared to a crazy tracks with not-so-good production... 220481[/snapback] now you're putting it very black/white...but i understand what you mean... off course I prefer substance instead of form... But I want dj's with good tracks selection and beatmatching ... You see, a good dj for me tells a story trough a set to people by the way he orders his songs to play... that is a technique... but off course a beatmatch once & while has to be done... But I also expierienced that when you create a set in your mind that tells a story that doesn't mean that the tracks can be well mixed... so as a dj you chose a bit for the well mix or the story... As in old skool I don't mind if the beatmach isn't pefect, the melodic waves are important and it's safe to go from one wave to anohter... still if you're just fading in & out and that's all you do you'll better make that tracks selection extremely good or you suck IHMO... Like when old skool dj's only choose tracks with intro & outros without any beats so that they just can fade in & out... naaaah that's unproffesional... I notice when dj can't play and just chose his tracks so that he doesn't have to beatmach... As a fullon dj there must be beatmatch cause It's so easy with all this clones releasing the same bass lines that if you can't ,you just't don't play... And in progressive beatmach is 100% necessary = no doubt about it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ktrance Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Lemmi: Agree completely! If the form is there, well the mores the better, but you simply cant make a set without substance. A lot of the sets I have heard recently are excellently mixed but simply to crappy to listen to because there are no substance. this I guess is the main reason I dont go to parties here in my country that often anymore. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spindrift Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 I sure prefer substance. I find a lot of music overpolished to a stage where it sound very dead in my ears. But there is a risk whith focusing to much on the substance as well IMO. When people try to be really special and unique it can also result in music I have problems relating to. The key word for me is "inspired" really. If it sounds inspired even a track that actually has less impressive content and/or production when analyzed will still come across much better to me. Same goes for DJ'ing. Some DJ's play tracks that I like, so the subtance is ok. But if the flow and feeling is not really there it will not be enough. And if they beatmix is of very little importance in trance for me. As long as they don't try and fail all the time at least and stick to intro-outro mixes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Beatmatching is easy. There's really no excuse to be sloppy at it. Good selection AND good beatmatching is what makes GOOD DJING. Form AND function, mmmkay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slyman604 Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 i think the concentration on "form" is just from the fact that over time it becomes harder and harder to truely be original(which is pretty hard even when something is brand new) so "form" is another way to seperate things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybernetika Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 I think I can agree that substance is the most important thing to me. But the only thing to determine your skill and experience with in an objective way are your technical abilities. It's almost the same I'm 'suffering' in Music production. I think the least funny thing about making music is plain EQing and stuff, but it has to be done to make it sound attractive for a larger audience. Even if you are a genius, and have some great ideas, you won't be noticed by many if you don't show you know your business technically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest .::E.P Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 When it come to DJ'ing you have to look at it this way! People pay to see a DJ. So it should be a minimun requirement that the DJ know how to mix at least ok. The DJ is there to entertain and if some wannabe DJ stand there and fuck it up making the flow go down the toilet then people should get their money back! Too many DJ's know zero about Dj'ing and they certanly do not know how to entertain people. I agree that beatmixing is not the no. 1 keyword in trance. But believe me the music would flow so much better if it was! Just take a look at a DJ like Jean Borelli.. Why do you think he's so famous as a DJ? Because he always deliver a good set with perfect beatmixing... It just cant be compared to some shanti dude that cut the tracks in half on his outdated DAT Of course communication with people and to know what to play next play a very important role too but if you keep fucking up every mix then that will soon become a huge annoyance on the floor and people will then care less about the quality of the music ! So yes both technical skill, talent and indeed lots of experience play big roles... But a minimum of skill is deffinently required... DJ'ing is a craft and art even though many amature Dj's have dreagged it down to a minimum of quality in this scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Too many promoters know zero about Dj'ing 220584[/snapback] ...and that's another thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lepton Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 about mixin' : its very simple you just have to beatmix, there are allways exeptions like tracks who completely freak out in the end but still... I find it quiet funny that those who deny the importance of good mixing allways come up with this: yeah I prefer no mixing and good track selection over good mixing and bad tracks like you cannot have good mixing and good track selection. Sorry but it is because of this attitude that there are so less highly skillfull dj in our scene.Track selection is a matter of taste good mixin not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spindrift Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 In my experience the ones that mix the best does not always have the best music. Sure I think someone who calls themself a DJ should now how to mix, because it really is not that hard. The only problem is that they are to lazy to practice. I heard many DJ's who really don't have clue about DJ'ing but seems to be excellent collectors and I think it's outrageous that they don't put more effort into their technique. So, I'm sorry lepton, I cannot change my opinion because I think it will make all DJ's become technical masters and have great track selection at the same time. I will still prefer to hear a DJ that have an amazing set of tracks than a deck wizard with mediocre selection. But I do wish they all could learn to make a decent mix of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lepton Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Spindrift : In the very end the music is more important ofcourse otherwise I still would be listening to techo music. But lets say that the dj plays amazing music that can (easily) be mixed; would you still prefer a dj with less amazing but still good music that beatmixes? I ask this cuz I happen to like finnish psytrance wich is really not always suitable for mixing so in that case I don't mind if it's not mixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spindrift Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Well, I do like very maximalistic music in general, so beatmixing is not really appropriate to do too much of when playing the kind of tracks I like. Then intro outro mixing can do just fine. But there is also many famous DJ's who hardly manage to do that ok, which like I said is sad. But I'm unfortunally very narrow minded being into the scene for quite long, so "good" music is just not enough for me to get going. For me the music need to be "amazing" if I should think it's a nice set and get off to it. So contents and flow really takes a big precedence to mixing to me. If we are talking constant train wrecks the flow will be gone completly of course and the contents destroyed, but very obvious and simple intro-outro mixes will be adequate if the music is amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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