Daniël Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 Are there people here who can quickly put the characteristics for the different styles next to each other? Cause all i hear & read today in tutorials is how to make boring basslines & smooth melodies. All tutorials that I could write myself with my eyes closed. But old skool or dark goa-trance for example. Which layers are used? What kind of FX is best to use? Do you really need a bassline? Cause my music sound much better & cleaner without, just a deep loud drumkick with some percussion sounds better then a bassline that pushes away the others sounds & takes all the space. &What about hats & snares? which FX should i use on them? I'm also making a new track. Started of real good, but i worked on it at night when i was really tired so now it got a complete mess. If someone wants to help me... just to correct it a bit. Made in fruity5 with sytrus-VST. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinos Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 But old skool or dark goa-trance for example. Which layers are used? What kind of FX is best to use? Do you really need a bassline? Cause my music sound much better & cleaner without, just a deep loud drumkick with some percussion sounds better then a bassline that pushes away the others sounds & takes all the space. &What about hats & snares? which FX should i use on them? 225305[/snapback] Well, as an a mateur who mostly makes chilly melodic trance and one goa track... Good FX for goa are phasing and flangers, anything that makes the sound sound "alive". Actually splitting the melodies into different layers with different effects (eg left/right earphone) is good too. A bassline is not needed, but it tends to sound minimal without. I usually use a "boom-mmufp-boom" type of simple beat. (drum-bass-drum) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmithabaBuddha Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 listen to a lot to the music style you want to produce and study and make notes about theorical stuff. im about 5 years in goa producting and i still didnt figured all out. about the fx , layers etc.. , its up to your imagination, but you will need LOTS of pratice and pratice and pratice and studying ... take care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukiro Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 I would recommend trying to copy/mimic a track you like. In doing so, you will learn a lot about scales, rhythms, arrangement, mixing and so on. If that feels like an overwhelming task, try to just mimic a certain part or sound in a track and work from there. As for goa trance, a LOT of the mood comes from the scales used. I personally love phrygian, which was very common back in the days. Here's phrygian C: C, C#, D#, F, G, G#, A# - then you can move that up to whatever base note you want. A lot of my favourite oldschool tracks had very intricate percussion, but not in an obvious way. I've only started noticing this in the past few years... but just about everyone who tries to do "oldschool" psy-trance these days use very simple and basic percussion patterns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slyman604 Posted March 5, 2005 Share Posted March 5, 2005 great points ukiro. one thing that i just did the other day that was really interesting was to actually load up an astrix track in cubase and check out when he would put breaks in or drop out the kick. I really cant stand his music but his track structure usually seems spot on. If you load up the track at the proper BPM its easy to see the flow of the track, where things change, where things repeat with the same parts. the old school sound is defianetly linked with the phrygian mode. Thats probly the biggest thing is getting the sound of phrygian in your head. Also, try making a line in phrygian and jump some of the notes up an octave that are the main notes of the melody and concentrate on points in the scale with half steps. I totally agree with the percussion comment too, the older tracks almost went out of their way to use different percussion sounds and certainly different patterns where modern stuff the percussion is as boring as can be. sytrus can get you some nice pleiadians IFO type FM sounds. You should defianetly consider reaktor sessions as you can download a really good emulation of the SH101 and roland alpha juno, those were two pretty big old school synths, especially the SH. One thing i also notice about older stuff is since it was new and people were coming from different backgrounds to make music alot of what defines the bigger artist sound is they are mostly useing totally different synths from one an other. today everyone knows what synths are "good" for psytrance so there seems to be less experimentation with synths that are not "good" for psytrance. A good delay is also essential, since after the acid influence died off people still seemed to try to emulate the 303 type delay in general. Try the fruity BPM delay set to "3". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted March 5, 2005 Share Posted March 5, 2005 here's a few tricks with reason: It's best to have more than one mixers. 1)DRUMS MIXER 2)BASS/FX mixer 3)Leads mixer 4) General mixer where the whole sound will be edited btw, a delay trick: Set a Delay to e.g 3 steps and left pan and another one to 5-6 steps and right pan. Then add it as a send effect to the sound you want... sounds good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmithabaBuddha Posted March 5, 2005 Share Posted March 5, 2005 great points ukiro. one thing that i just did the other day that was really interesting was to actually load up an astrix track in cubase and check out when he would put breaks in or drop out the kick. I really cant stand his music but his track structure usually seems spot on. If you load up the track at the proper BPM its easy to see the flow of the track, where things change, where things repeat with the same parts. the old school sound is defianetly linked with the phrygian mode. Thats probly the biggest thing is getting the sound of phrygian in your head. Also, try making a line in phrygian and jump some of the notes up an octave that are the main notes of the melody and concentrate on points in the scale with half steps. I totally agree with the percussion comment too, the older tracks almost went out of their way to use different percussion sounds and certainly different patterns where modern stuff the percussion is as boring as can be. sytrus can get you some nice pleiadians IFO type FM sounds. You should defianetly consider reaktor sessions as you can download a really good emulation of the SH101 and roland alpha juno, those were two pretty big old school synths, especially the SH. One thing i also notice about older stuff is since it was new and people were coming from different backgrounds to make music alot of what defines the bigger artist sound is they are mostly useing totally different synths from one an other. today everyone knows what synths are "good" for psytrance so there seems to be less experimentation with synths that are not "good" for psytrance. A good delay is also essential, since after the acid influence died off people still seemed to try to emulate the 303 type delay in general. Try the fruity BPM delay set to "3". 225722[/snapback] pleiadians fm sounds in subtractor are a piece of cake , and making goa melodies is even easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asian_bud_nation Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 of course theres a few basically formulas that should be followed but i think they should be more along the lines of eq, compression and mastering...as for the track itself...do whatever is in your head...it takes time, but i would familiarize myself or focus on certain VST instruments or other sequencer programs that u feel comfortable working with, and eventually u will able to sculpt whatever sound u think the track needs... personally, im a fan of individualism, and i think psy trance is headed in a direction that harbors much too much conformity...anyways, as a fan of "alternative" psy if u want to call it that, i really suggest u find your own style, and your own structure within songs... if u think the track doesnt need a bass line, then u dont need it...look, ive realized this...your track could always sound better to someone else...when i show my friends a track they all say different things..some say "oh but u need more fx an little noises" while others say "u need a stronger bassline"...in my opinion, as long as the outcome of the track satisfies the original purpose of the track, then your work is done...if u want the track to sound raw and dirty and not over produced like much of the current isra sound, then so be it.... i think u get my point, there will always be guidlines for using certain effects or plugins or whatever, but i think the fun and interesting about psy is that u can really choose to ignore everything thats been done and take a completely different approach..and thats the way it is done (ok if u compare big isra acts, their sound always sounds consistent and similar because a small group of ppl are responsible for mastering, etc.) but otherwise psy is so different all around... keep that in mind, and dont let yourself or your style be discouraged by anyone. peace! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniël Posted March 9, 2005 Author Share Posted March 9, 2005 Thanks people! This are the answers i needed! Some good leads for experiments here. I'm gonna dive into my psychedelic cave now! See you in 2 weeks my 2 latest tracks are there any good VST's to make persuccion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj mylo Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Thanks people! This are the answers i needed! Some good leads for experiments here. I'm gonna dive into my psychedelic cave now! See you in 2 weeks my 2 latest tracks are there any good VST's to make persuccion? 227323[/snapback] NI Battery But mostly I use Reason's ReDrum Rewired to Cubase another element that comes into Psy is reversing stuff! Reverse snare, kicks, crash cymbals... even melodies. A great trick is to lay down a synth hit or stab, add delay and a pinch of reverb and render a new wave. Then flip it! It sounds crazy! Your sound bounces closer and closer...louder and louder and then dissppears! Try it! Or Flip a sound first, then add delays and stuff, render it, and then flip it back! Your sound is playing forwards normally, but the effects are backwards and happen before the sound! Also really spacey stuff ...sounds inside out! These are just little "tricks" you can put into your tune to make it more interesting. But to make a good track in any style of music you first need a great "hook". The rest is just decoration! good luck and have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 what do you mean "flip" the sound? i can get what you say, adding delay and reverb, but flip? maybe you mean that ,let's say you have a pattern and then create a new synthesizer, reverse the notes and then add delay/reverb? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinos Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 what do you mean "flip" the sound? i can get what you say, adding delay and reverb, but flip? maybe you mean that ,let's say you have a pattern and then create a new synthesizer, reverse the notes and then add delay/reverb? 227562[/snapback] Flipping... I've heard the concept, and I think I've used it, but I'm not good enough to explain... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj mylo Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Flipping... I've heard the concept, and I think I've used it, but I'm not good enough to explain... 227574[/snapback] by "flip" I mean "reverse". So you reverse it, add delays, render and reverse it again! etc. so hard to explain! u right cinos! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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