Anoebis Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 So, let's talk about money! What is your feeling about the money in today's psytrance scene? did it become too important or not? Would you still make music/play/hang your deco for free? I think the scene became more professional for sure, and thus more money orientated. I notice some split here in Belgium between more commercial organisations and more underground ones... And well, I think djs/deco/... should be paid if there is profit, share the wealth to anyone that made the party (otherwise it's hard to continue dj-ing,painting,..)! But if an organiser lost money they don't have to give me any money... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rain Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 But if an organiser lost money they don't have to give me any money... 231999[/snapback] This is off course a very good initiative but I think with all the parties we allready have in belgium the 'the risk to lose money' is a good think... Otherwise everybody could start parties all over without organzing good cause they can't lose any money If they don't have to pay their dj's and etc with a faillure.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 So far I am enjoying the system I use... for local events I charge 10 times the final door price (i.e. $15 in advance, $20 the night of - my fee is $200). If you do the math this means two things - I play free events for free, and secondly - if I get 10 people in the door to see me then the promoter has recouped the fee he paid me. Makes sense to me anyway Personally I demand payment even when the promoter loses out - it is their responsibility to break even, and mine to play a good set. If they fail in their responsibility while I fulfill mine, why should I lose out? Of course it's different with friends and in exceptional circumstances - when something really out of their control goes wrong. But if they didn't promote well, didn't flyer, whatever? Forget it, "we had a deal!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spindrift Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 If it is a free party I play. and make decorations. If the organisers charge an entrance fee it's IMO a ripp off if I should not get paid if they don't earn money. You have no insight into the financials of the event, and if they make loads of money on the party you just get the normal fee in the end. As a party organiser sometime you loose sometimes you wi. If you you make parties where you charge people money and get people to work for you, you just have to make sure you have money for anyone who is not involved on a level where they know about the financials behind and know how big share of any eventual profits they will get. People working in the bar, soundsystem, venue, DJ's and deco all have to get paid and should demand to get paid if there is any money involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmtree Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 depends - if it's a well-intented event put together on a limited budget by people I respect, I don't mind playing for free or for a small portion of the profit. If it's out of town, I'll play for a plane ticket or gas+food, usually. If it's a regular party/festival, I like to get between $100 -$200 for a 2 hour DJ set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmithabaBuddha Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 get a JOB! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmtree Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 get a JOB! 232168[/snapback] not all of us are 17. time and effort are valuable commodities when you're older and have been working on perfecting a certain art for years. I think people deserve to get paid. It's only fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmithabaBuddha Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 not all of us are 17. time and effort are valuable commodities when you're older and have been working on perfecting a certain art for years. I think people deserve to get paid. It's only fair. 232169[/snapback] i make goa so you mean i deserve to get paid. ok pay me. no smileys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmtree Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 Make something good enough for me to play, and I will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unikos Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 if you want to earn your living through your music and you dont get paid it kind of sucks doesnt it ? (provided you were told that you d get paid) on the other hand i know that a lot of artists (esp. not the ''superstar djs'') would be happy if their payment was a return plane ticket, food, shelter and some joints or beer or something i also believe its a good deal actually. travel for free, play a set, enjoy a party, promote your music... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADA Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 I think in general we have to deal with two oposite feelings... to play with pleasure because it is something that grow from your heart and have to pay the bills lol BUt when some organizer are in throubles I have no doub for any second that i prefer to let the things like this and for sure i wouldn´t like to be in his pants... by the way it never happens to me like this but worse... hehehe but this is other story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukiro Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 I'm with Basilisk and Spindrift. If a promoter that promised me payment fails to reach break-even, there is absolutely no logic in having their failure crashing down on me. I did my part, I expect that the agreement is to be fulfilled from the promoters side as well. I have two free gigs booked for this summer, so I'm certainly not in it for the money. I could never dream of having the DJ'ing pay my record expenses, there's no way I'll ever catch up there. So if you see it from that standpoint, I lose money... but I would be buying all these records even if I wasn't DJ'ing, so... =) The reason I want money for DJ'ing and not just travel expenses covered, is that I play original records, and often they're vinyl. Since I also play oldschool stuff, I'm literally carrying rarities around, and to drag these as-good-as-impossible-to-find records out into the wilderness is a risky endeavour. I expect to be compensated for that. (Although I do make exceptions, such as the two free parties this summer). I have sworn not to take gigs for the money alone, since I feel that it's against the whole spirit of the trance dance party experience. I need to be emotionally involved to play a good set. More of my thoughs on this can be found on http://ukiro.com for those who care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniël Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 I get payed, but often it's not very much. I still have all the bills of the materials I bought to paint. And if I count the loss i'm making at the moment than I have 400 euro invested from my own pocket. But now I work with this system: I ask the money of a party in advance and use it to make new backdrops. For 150 euro i can make 7 new paintings. It's better to have the money before the party: -7 new paintings -Can't waste money anymore -Still got payed when organiser lost money If there is one thing that adds bullshit to the joy, it's deffinatly the money. I just see a party as an oppurtunity to make new backdrops. And I don't pay the materials myself anymore, if an organisation wants new stuff they'll have to pay me in advance. And all organisations love to pay alot for new deco. But few of them want to pay 150 for old deco. So 150 euro for 7 new paintings+old stuff is my standard price, If someone wants more then they'll have to pay more. It's the cheapest I can get without loosing money myself. If i decorate a party without new stuff i just take the donations, cause often it are small parties organised by friends. Sometimes it takes a while until I get money for new materials so i can't resist to make new stuff. I've got several very good new paintings, they never saw a party & are waiting for an organiser that wants 7 new paintings for 150 euro. Then the new stuff (secretly allready painted) will be part of the 7 paintings. In this way I will never have loss again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ktrance Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 More of my thoughs on this can be found on http://ukiro.com for those who care. Bravo! You just described my thoughts more eloquent that I ever could. Not that Im a dj but these are semtiment about what a party should be, and in the current state is not(atleast often). I want the trance back. The psychedelia, the shut-your-eyes-and-travel-within-music, the music I came for in the first place. Well said. Is there any chance to get to hear one of your sets? Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amphiton Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 Here in Ukraine we are used to lose money after organizing parties, because there are not many people who even know about goa and psy culture, but it's like 5-10% of the budget. (150-200 people visiting our parties in Lviv and about 500 in Kiev). Goa is our culture or hobby, but not the way of making money. If we are organizing a party, we write down the business plan and put minimal prices so the party could pay off.... if we put in 1000$ then our point is having them back, more money we make - more money will be in the budget of our next party =) We dj for free (paying to ourselves would be strange ) deco is done for free too, only materials are bought. Sometimes we invite designers from other cities, so we pay them for transportation + food + find them a place to live, but usually it's done for free, because we know each other well and are good friends =) invited dj's/artists are usually payed as they should be, but if they are friends too, they ask much less money. So it's all about the culture. I think GOA is like this... if not then it should be. Of course, there are commercial parties, especially in Kiev, mostly for amphetamine addicts with psytekno... I've been on such party because there was DJ Loopus from Loopus in Fabula and a legendary dj from Moscow - DJ Ugaryan. That was a strange mix of psytekno, funky goa from Loopus and suomi from Ugaryan on 2 dancefloors =) but that's no my cup tea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukiro Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 Bravo! You just described my thoughts more eloquent that I ever could. Not that Im a dj but these are semtiment about what a party should be, and in the current state is not(atleast often). Well said. Is there any chance to get to hear one of your sets? Peace 232307[/snapback] Thanks! I don't have any up-to-date dj sets recorded (well the term up-to-date is a bit awkward for someone spinning oldschool music, such as myself...) but I hope to get that sorted soon-ish. It's jsut that for every concievable set theme, there is at least one crucial track that I only have on CD and I don't have pitchable CD decks. So everything keeps getting postponed... I really need to buy myself a set of DJ CD players. As for hearing me at a party, your best chances are coming to Stockholm this summer. The only booking outside of Sweden that I've had, got cancelled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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