Subsonik Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 Listening to some new VA albums I got the other day, I was left with my jaw dangling open. It came to mind that some of these guys have been around for over a decade, and that time has sure paid off - being able to follow technology and gather the masses of experience and information necessary to become successful producers. The amount of different layers in psy nowdays is just phenomenal. So much goes on in these songs that there has to be some kind of formula to getting it right! Now - I have to wonder, will any of us newer producers ever be able to catch up to this level??? It takes many many years to actually get good at making trance, I know that - but every year that I've learned is another year that Logic bomb, or Deedrah, or Oforia, Alien Project, Astrix and how ever many hundered of these guys gets under their belt too! Where did they learn all they know anyways? Was it a really good audio college or just plain extreme experimentation? Am I just freaking out about nothing? Because I feel almost like I'll never get as good as the guys who actually get some money for what they do. Which means it woulnd't be a great career path If you think about it, so many people want to be DJ's and producers these days. Far more than parties can support. So it's more like a shot in the dark for most people taking up what is a very pricey career - a lot of time, a lot of music collection, which may pay off to nothing? Except some fun obviously. I need coffee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAH Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 interesting, i was having a conversation with a friend who is studying sound engineering about the same thing... and you are right good producers are setting the bar high... from a listener point of view is DAMN easy to go critique how fool-on is this or the other, or how progressive is the same... or whatever kind of complain i have heard a 100 times, and that i have probably elaborated myself on... but the truth is, you go sit down on for a couple of hours... weeks... and try to make ANYTHINg work, and you'll see is just a lot easier to talk crap than be productive... and it is an entirely different thing to actually be good at it... this no reason to let you down, if you love what you are doing then keep doing it, dedication and hard work pay off... if they don't im jumping of the window right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Negrosex Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 It's not a competition unless you try to sound exactly like someone else. Thankfully people have different tastes and some people are going to like your style better then others. And the soundquality doesn't have to be crystal clear like some of todays productions. I and alot of others prefer that productions have soul and character instead of a sterile, perfectly mixed sound. There is a reason why alot of people prefer roughly mixed rock music over all that white jazz that seems to be popular only amongst producers and audiophiles. It's not about the most fancy productions, it's about the music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qa2pir Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 Good mixing is about giving it soul and enhancing the spirit of a song. So good mixing can only be good for a song, if you know what it means. A little more on topic: I think there are some periods in a producer career. First comes "i can make that too", when you start with it and find a funky preset Then comes "damn this is hard, i will never acomplish this" which i am currently in. Then comes the last period where you have confidence in what you are doing and can make things that give the feeling of yourself. from there on you are on the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH_ Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 Good mixing is about giving it soul and enhancing the spirit of a song. So good mixing can only be good for a song, if you know what it means. A little more on topic: I think there are some periods in a producer career. First comes "i can make that too", when you start with it and find a funky preset Then comes "damn this is hard, i will never acomplish this" which o, currently in. Then comes the last period where you have confidence in what you are doing and can make things that give the feeling of yourself. from there on you are on the way. well said. i find myself between 2nd and 3rd, i have a ton of confidence, but the music doesnt come out of my head and onto the screen the way id like it to. damn synth melodies and you are right good producers are setting the bar high... from a listener point of view is DAMN easy to go critique how fool-on is this or the other, or how progressive is the same... or whatever kind of complain i have heard a 100 times, and that i have probably elaborated myself on... but the truth is, you go sit down on for a couple of hours... weeks... and try to make ANYTHINg work, and you'll see is just a lot easier to talk crap than be productive... and it is an entirely different thing to actually be good at it... again well said, when i listen to psy now i can pick it apart usually, unless its exceptionally crazy trying to make something that has those levels of layers is a whole nother story.. i dont think anyone can teach you how to make music, except time. time will teach you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundrop Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 there is one huge difference between guys like us (new at home producers) and most of the big boys: ***they know each other and teach each other tricks*** if you want to get like them, as fast as they do, you gotta join their "team"!! like if you live in israel im sure you can start making top quality psytrance instantly with all the pros living there. im still far away from pro level but, recently i asked an artist to collaborate with a track (synsun) and they remixed it for me that was pretty sweet and i learnt alot. artists are people too and like hangin out with friends so... try and hook up with some! u will find even the top artists like to learn new things even from newbies! even if u are one of the only people producing psy in your area (like me) u can still learn a ton of stuff from people who produce other forms of music. find people who make trance, house, etc. anyone who uses the same tools u want to master. i found a guy who make nuNRG in my area (rodi style) and learnt from him too. u just gotta be open minded and friendly and explore things around u im not saying u cant do it alone but... with help u can get there faster now if only CPU would teach me hehe i wish cheers dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundrop Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 Am I just freaking out about nothing? Because I feel almost like I'll never get as good as the guys who actually get some money for what they do. Which means it woulnd't be a great career path If you think about it, so many people want to be DJ's and producers these days. Far more than parties can support. So it's more like a shot in the dark for most people taking up what is a very pricey career - a lot of time, a lot of music collection, which may pay off to nothing? Except some fun obviously. if u wanna make money off it then u gotta go sell it. just remember a good salesman is not the same as a good producer so be both you dont have to sell your music and make money to be "successful"... if u make the music u love and other people love it too... thats a pretty damn good life right there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Journey Man Project Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 It's pretty nice to have a mate who is a pro... having Tim Larner living around the corner, aka Sensient, has been fun, he taught my some tricks which have been handy but I've been producing at home for oh about 5 years now, and I play 'live' with a laptop and my synth (second hand virus c)... my music if far from being on the latest Spun compilation, but when I play I enjoy my music, I love people dancing to it, and /i love giving energy to people... if people dance, if people smile and if people have a good trip then that is all the matters to me... I play and dj for free, never ask for money, I only strive to provide a good time for others, which is what I have in the process... if you are it for fame and glory then it will take a long time I think to become a trance superstar, but if you just have a good time and experince what comes your way instead of trying to find an easy way, eventually one day you will find a track or album on a nice label and wonder when the hell did I get so good? Relax and keep having fun while your young, good things come to those who wait Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subsonik Posted June 5, 2005 Author Share Posted June 5, 2005 ***they know each other and teach each other tricks*** if you want to get like them, as fast as they do, you gotta join their "team"!! 272610[/snapback] That said, I've been in touch with Deedrah... I'm going to build him a web site - part of my personal portfolio. Hopefully I can spin a few tricks off him and maybe befriend some producers Thanks for the inspiration guys, some good words said. You've put me back on top of my day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Negrosex Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 Good mixing is about giving it soul and enhancing the spirit of a song. So good mixing can only be good for a song, if you know what it means. Im not talking about perfect mixing in that sense. I mean perfect mixing as in overlapping frequencies = end of the world, every sound must be heard clearly. That kind of stuff (obviously). I have found that making different styles of music is a good way to learn a lot about production. You will learn alot this way. I make psytrance more as a sideproject to the industrial band im in and i believe that i encounter alot more situations that i can learn from then if i had been making only industrial or only psytrance. I have also recorded and mixed some rock music, i have made a few disco songs with some friends, one country song, and we even made a waltz. I have learned alot from all of this and it has been alot of fun. So my advise would be that you should grab every chance to try and be in contact with different styles of music. If you have a friend that plays a guitar and maby someone that plays bass, just get them drunk and start recording. Maby it will even sound good! Another good way to learn is to ask on forums like this one. Maby we should start a topic with tips and methods for making nice sounds and mixes to help eachother and all the new producers out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qa2pir Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 Im not talking about perfect mixing in that sense. I mean perfect mixing as in overlapping frequencies = end of the world, every sound must be heard clearly. That kind of stuff (obviously). 272641[/snapback] I know what you were talking about, i just wanted to share my view about it =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumble Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 I really feel this. What is really frustrating is trying to break out of being a bedroom producer when you have to work full time to support yourself. How can we get up to speed when we have half or less the time that the pros have? That is one of the big downers for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest .::E.P Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 I really feel this. What is really frustrating is trying to break out of being a bedroom producer when you have to work full time to support yourself. How can we get up to speed when we have half or less the time that the pros have? That is one of the big downers for me. 272906[/snapback] Even us the pro's have full time work mate. It's not as easy to live of the music today as it was in the 90's. May I suggest you just take it easy and let things happen the way it should. If you got the talent and passion for creating music you will eventually get there. No need to rush things like the many other new artists that release premature. It's not a competition. It's music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimoire Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 May I suggest you just take it easy and let things happen the way it should. If you got the talent and passion for creating music you will eventually get there. No need to rush things like the many other new artists that release premature. It's not a competition. It's music. 272910[/snapback] well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamez_23 Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 Subsonik ..... I know how you feel. In my opinion it all comes down to attitude. There are two different ways of looking at it. Positively / Negatively. Negatively: It is waste of time and money. It will lead to greater frustration ..... maybe even public humliation ....... ( playing live ..... ). I will never reach the same level as the pro's who have been writing for years. Conclusion - GIVE UP !!! End result ...... it will never happen ........ Postively: I seem to be getting better with each track I write. I enjoy making music it helps me to focus / relax etc ...... Conclusion ...... KEEP ON SLOGGING AWAY AT IT ! End result - with alot of hard work / time / money ....... it might happen. I prefer to side with the "it might happen" scenario ...... Your music will not get there unless you are actually trying. Which you are - you see, you are on the right path already. Good luck to all of the aspiring producers out there ( including myself !! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj mylo Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 If you make original music it narrows down the compettition tremendously. Nirvana had virtually no compettitors when they hit the scene because they were truly fresh. An original idea will always prevail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subsonik Posted June 9, 2005 Author Share Posted June 9, 2005 If you make original music it narrows down the compettition tremendously. Nirvana had virtually no compettitors when they hit the scene because they were truly fresh. An original idea will always prevail. 273405[/snapback] Deffo... That's the key - originality, but IMO you still need to be a good producer, and have pro skills. It's not just about the thought that goes into your songs, but the execution, and at the moment - that's where I'm fighting. Learning not only how a song must flow but all the little bits and pieces that go inbetween. How to process sound professionally, get great sounding synths, basslines, perc, acidlines, pads... that's only the beginning. Mastering the tools such as reverbs and delays... EQing (which I have next to no trained experience with)... and the list goes on. When I started making music I wanted to produce other varients of trance such as uplifting, prog, etc. In comparisson to psy I think it's piss. It's almost like psy could be one of the most difficult genres I could ever want to produce. So what do you do? Start with the easier genres and fold over into psy? Or do you put everything you have into learning psy and not getting your senses warped by the way other music sounds? I know everybody should try their hand at producing other genres, but I wouldn't expect to get anywhere with them without taking it very seriously and learning as much as I could about them (ie. more time). I don't think I'll ever give up on producing. It's just the anticipation. I've learned through the path that you only get better, never worse. The more you put into it, the more you get out - without a doubt. But I can't physically seem to find all the time. Maybe one day. I think the moral of the story is to have patience, and that can be said for everybody. Patience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumble Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 You're all right of course. It's so easy to lose sight when you're deep in the forest.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybernetika Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 When I started making music I wanted to produce other varients of trance such as uplifting, prog, etc. In comparisson to psy I think it's piss. It's almost like psy could be one of the most difficult genres I could ever want to produce. So what do you do? Start with the easier genres and fold over into psy? Or do you put everything you have into learning psy and not getting your senses warped by the way other music sounds? I know everybody should try their hand at producing other genres, but I wouldn't expect to get anywhere with them without taking it very seriously and learning as much as I could about them (ie. more time). 275099[/snapback] I'd always start with trying to make the music I want to make properly. If youre mostly into Psy, which I assume, then you should try to produce this genre first. After all, there is no genre you will enjoy producing in more, and this is what matters most I think. And you probably know it better than any other genre. Not necessarily in terms of "how-to-produce" but in terms of what sounds right or wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qa2pir Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 I make music that doesn't sound anything else. Maybe i will not be better at producing than someone making only psy but i have fun while making it, and you can recognise i made it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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