jarle Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 i know what you mean, i dont get this music either exept Dark Tranquillity - Character this album rocks ! (death metal ) i think i like it because there is some classical instruments in it and some melodies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAMbenjy Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 you dont like it because you are a sissy and WEE ON YOUR ASSES dissing iron maiden. BRING YOUR DAUGHTER TO THE SLAUGTER its just taste's man. same reason i think full onn / punk rock / country / jazz sucks. who bloody knows i played yesterday . i'm in this metal band. and i took my girlfriend and she couldnt handel it. it was too hard ; she's a very sweet girl and she was reall stressed out after my gig you can listen to some tracks here => http://media.jigger.be/music/ALE/ I LOVE THE NEW ALBUM FROM SYSTEM OF A DOWN mixing reaggea and old greek music with metal they are real atists. with very sofisticated lyrics not the dumb ass WAR or HATE lyrics and also metal lover check out some hardcore like isis . psychedelic hardcore very nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraph Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Yeah, the flouro wearing mushroomed psy-trancers certainly make an intelligent impression... 293724[/snapback] But they are at least dancing synchronised to the beat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sick Bastard Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 In terms of music there are I think some similarities between dance and metal, they are both 4/4, relatively fast tempo, usually the same sort of structure (building to a climax) and both are fairly repetative. The main difference (for me) is that dance music is melody based, whereas metal is riff based, I.E its the chord progression that builds the tune, in dance the chord progression is harmonised to the medoldy (yes? no?). Maybe thats the stumbling block ? Andy 293923[/snapback] Yes, there are similarities but: ¿4/4?, as Cybernetika said check out metal stuff like Meshuggah, A Life Once Lost, The Dillinger Scape Plan or Converge and tell me how many 4/4 rhythms do you find on each track. About fast tempo i could say there are loads of down tempo metal bands like Crowbar, Isis, Neurosis or even Opeth, and in terms of repetition you can find a media of 4 or 5 riffs on a 3 minutes length metal track, possibly the same quantity of melodic unities that you can find on a 7 minutes length psy track. Where i'm trying to get is metal music, as psy scene, is a huge universe where generalizing is very dangerous. Halosian, it would be better to say ''i dislike metal music because it sounds horrible in my ears'', for example. But please, do not blaspheme comparing the skills required to perform a metal/rock live show or to produce a metal/rock record with a psyact or a psy album because i can have a good laugh. I love psy and it's sure there are great ''artists'' on psy scene but just a very very few ''musicians'' . Sorry but you cannot compare, no way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 1st of all shut the fuck up you don't know what the fuck your talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roel Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 I surpose you just don't like the sound of the instruments used. you can't complain about rythms or melodies because they are so different in rock music (I use "rock" for every music with guitars, drums, bass,... but I already saw rock bands with only drums and synth (BS2000)) If you go and search for other artists than the most known names (witch is not that easy and will recuire a lot of time to find all different types of rock music, if it's possible anyway) you will be surprised of the diversity. It's like you would only know psytrance (compare to metal) and than find out all the other types of electronic music (compare to rock). Try listening to "The Mars Volta" (http://www.themarsvolta.com/) it's something different than you will be used to. A friend of mine also disslikes rock a lot, but he can stand "the mars volta". He even almost likes it. btw: If it's you in the avatar, I realy think your looks accompany the message very good. I mean you realy look like a rock-music-hater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Well I have tried for so many years to understand this music but I simply can't. And I really want to analyse it as far as possible to see if there are some elements that I can understand and maybe enjoy myself too. I can understand all music styles (more or less) except rock and metal so it's very frustrating for me. Maybe I was a bit harsh (I appologise) but it was only supposed to be a legitimed question. 293821[/snapback] I guess nobody here can explain to you why you dislike this gerne. I mean it's a question of taste. I like a lot of Rock stuff, from old Deep Purple, Uriah Heap to new stuff like some Linking Park tracks. Maybe you will find some stuff you like if you look around some more or if you try old stuff and not MTV rock. But maybe you never will like it. I mean I think I'm open minded to all music but there are still some genres I don't like and that I can't imagine to ever like. So what, as long as there is enought other good music for me why bother about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 I love psy and it's sure there are great ''artists'' on psy scene but just a very very few ''musicians'' True to an extent, yet i dont think that most death/grindcore/wtf- metal bands are more musicians than MFG or Chi-A.D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybernetika Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 I think thats a very common mistake that people say "musical = melodic" and so they reason "non-melodic = not musical" ... that's simply not true. It's not all about the harmonics of melodies, music is also about rythmics, arrangement, even dexterity with instruments and stuff like that. I would even say that there are some Grindcore bands that play on such a high level that can hardly be reached by a trance track. I like and produce trance myself but I admit that most trance, especially melodic trance, is much simpler than stuff by Napalm Death for example. Trance is first of all straight dancing music, and I think its a lot easier to produce (I know its still not easy, but the devil is more in detail in producing trance.. understanding the basics and writing a simple, rocking track can usually be learned very fast) Especially in grindcore the rythms are just insane, and I consider it highly musical if you're able to swicht between 15/16, 3/4, 8/6 patterns in less that seconds like some of these guys do, although an unprepared listener most likely will say "that's just noise. I'll take a washboard and scratch on it and it will sound the same." which is honestly bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shpångul Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 True to an extent, yet i dont think that most death/grindcore/wtf- metal bands are more musicians than MFG or Chi-A.D 294437[/snapback] There are good musicians in every genre... The bigger music genre, the more good musicians.. etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraph Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 True to an extent, yet i dont think that most death/grindcore/wtf- metal bands are more musicians than MFG or Chi-A.D 294437[/snapback] Agree ! When trance was developing into goa and psy I am sure there has been most of them real musicians, or at least those ones that finish music school...making those melodies REQUIRES music skills...I think that half of metal musicians aren't actually musicians, they just developed their skills with endless practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indred Cold Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 i know what you mean, i dont get this music either exept Dark Tranquillity - Character this album rocks ! (death metal ) i think i like it because there is some classical instruments in it and some melodies. 294028[/snapback] They are melodic death maybe but thats being generous. They are definately not death metal. And I must appolagize for my outburst but I am so tired of people assuming all hard music is sh*t & that everone that listens to it is some kind of psycho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 I simply dont get their fucking screaming and such, i mean ok, sometimes i really like the guitars and drums, but the screams and voice make me puke. so i usually enjoy some metal until the singer comes in. Oh, and metalheads that say things like "Send the rave to the grave" or "Goa is for faggots" get on my nervers equally or even more than Skazi-trancers. Trance is first of all straight dancing music, and I think its a lot easier to produce (I know its still not easy, but the devil is more in detail in producing trance.. understanding the basics and writing a simple, rocking track can usually be learned very fast) Wouldnt say so - e.g check tracks that are mainly about creating an atmosphere, e.g MFG - Metamorphosis I like and produce trance myself but I admit that most trance, especially melodic trance, is much simpler than stuff by Napalm Death for example. Trance is first of all straight dancing music, and I think its a lot easier to produce (I know its still not easy, but the devil is more in detail in producing tranceunderstanding the basics and writing a simple, rocking track can usually be learned very fast) depends on what is your definition of melodic trance. creating trippy non-cheesy melodies isnt easy. believe me. And of course in electronia there's the whole mastering/production quality factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybernetika Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Wouldnt say so - e.g check tracks that are mainly about creating an atmosphere, e.g MFG - Metamorphosis depends on what is your definition of melodic trance. creating trippy non-cheesy melodies isnt easy. believe me. And of course in electronia there's the whole mastering/production quality factor. 294710[/snapback] Okay, I was actually referring to the cheezy melodic trance which often follows a basic formula. Long buildup, breakdown, supersaw climax. (actually veeery boring if you ask me)... unfortunately, same goes for most full-on. There is a clear formula new producers can stick to which almost promises "success". I dont mean commercial success by that, but it is much easier to make an "ok" sounding track. Of course this doesnt apply for any more complex Psy, I found especially Dark Psy to be very unconventional and some with some amazing "song writing". And of course there is also atmospheric stuff. I am not referring to Psy that much because it doesnt have the limitations many producers experience in "generic" trance. Although there are of course formulas in Metal, too, I still state that Metal is usually less formulaic and more spontaneous. Trance simply doesnt have the rythmic complexity of Metal, you just dont have to work with tempo and pattern changes all the time for example. And of course your right about the mastering thing. It's some kind of selection because so many producers come up with good, danceable trance so that you need another factor to determine skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mallesh Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 without rock there would be no psy-trance, or countless other genres and sub-genres. perhaps you are just listening to the wrong stuff mate? heavy mullet metal is a terrible representive for all of rocks history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halosian Posted July 12, 2005 Author Share Posted July 12, 2005 I actually once in a while do enjoy harder "rock" like Ministry, Metallica and Panthera. Maybe it's "hard rock" (and not heavy metal or rock I do dislike so much?) Maybe bands like Iron Maiden, AC/DC, Black Sabbath, W.A.S.P, Kiss - Rock from the 80ies is called hard rock so that it's this type of rock I can't stand..? mallesh said: "heavy mullet metal is a terrible representive for all of rocks history" - heavy mullet like in hard rock from the 80ies...? And it still sounds the same, outdated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agia_igoumeni Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 hahahah u rave boyz u r so funny... first of all,it is music industry rather MFG or some grindcore bands (and to say the whole truth grindcore is more underground than MFG or CHI-AD...) the whole magic & the hard chapter of being a good musician is one : PLAYING LIVE!.... which psy-trance artist is playing 100% live??? and i dont believe that the soundz of black sabbath,metallica,pantera,sepultura,tool even some death-hardcore-black metal bands are gay...especially more gay than the full on soundz that u guys hear... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 hahahah u rave boyz u r so funny... first of all,it is music industry rather MFG or some grindcore bands (and to say the whole truth grindcore is more underground than MFG or CHI-AD...) the whole magic & the hard chapter of being a good musician is one : PLAYING LIVE!.... which psy-trance artist is playing 100% live??? and i dont believe that the soundz of black sabbath,metallica,pantera,sepultura,tool even some death-hardcore-black metal bands are gay...especially more gay than the full on soundz that u guys hear... 295321[/snapback] Underground defined as what? Less comercial? And being more underground automatically means it's better? guess no... Don't tell me you wont listen to Chi-A.D. - Infinitism or MFG - The Prophecy but listen to some grindcore instead... About the live part, you have a point. I know this is i play the classical guitar and lives and such can be really stressful and hard, no matter how much you have practiced. but that's not just about psy, but ALL electronica genres. And one could say that in electronica the hard part is creating your own sounds,experimenting,trying to learn about sound engineering and mastering and production in general[of course if you are some serious producer, not if you are Skazi ] I dont like full-on, with some exceptions[e.g Electric Universe - Cosmic Experience]...Shift - Excession was not a bad album too. oh, and psychedelic goa is one thing that metal isn't.... : TRIPPY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraph Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 oh, and psychedelic goa is one thing that metal isn't.... : TRIPPY 295529[/snapback] Let's all trip out wearing shades... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towelie Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 oh, and psychedelic goa is one thing that metal isn't.... : TRIPPY that really depends.. theres lot of people useing psychedelics and listening metal and rock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agia_igoumeni Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Underground defined as what? Less comercial? And being more underground automatically means it's better? guess no... underground defined...as lower album or live promotion...or some less number of ppl that heards this kind of music...their lives instead with big ´´psy´´ parties & more... About the live part, you have a point. but that's not just about psy, but ALL electronica genres. yup thats true...but if u will ever see massive attack live, u will understand the difference... I dont like full-on, with some exceptions[e.g Electric Universe - Cosmic Experience]...Shift - Excession was not a bad album too. oh, and psychedelic goa is one thing that metal isn't.... : TRIPPY 295529[/snapback] i dont like full-on at all,i prefer to hear punk rock...about the trippy subject u r right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 that really depends.. theres lot of people useing psychedelics and listening metal and rock 295539[/snapback] eh.l.. so what? i am talking about music itself. psychedelics is mainly for psychedelic of course even classical music such as Debussy can be quite trippoy under the right circumstances. agia, btw, re-edited a part of my post. there are artists such as Juno Reactor that you could say play Live[still not 100% live, but there are percussionists,singers and all that] and even Massive Attack arent 100% live . EDIT#: [offtopic] i liked an old collab. track Massive Attach feat. Mos Def {Mos Def & Massive Attack - I Against I} however i find their album "Protection" to be verrry lame... at least i didnt like it at all, especially the singing ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deepdrone Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 MoonMan : Well the first thing to realise is of coure Heavy Metal is a broad a church as dance music. Just as you'll get many many stream "trance fans" who can't stand "Psytrance" you'll get many "big hair" metals fans who can't stand many of the more extreme sub genre's (death, speed etc). So if you're basing your hatred on the stuff you see on TV and radio its understandable. Try some of the more underground bands as other have suggested and maybe you'll hear something you like. I myself really wonder what kind of "trance fans" are these people, when they can`t find the similarities between trance and psytrance So if they even hate it, I cannot understand them... I think many of the "big hair" metals can`t stand stuff like Limp Bizkit and Linkin Park. Logically, I find many Linkin Park songs great. Maybe the metal and rock fans do not listen to them because of the crossover with Hip Hop MoonMan : The main difference (for me) is that dance music is melody based, whereas metal is riff based Perhaps?.... in dance there are melodies indeed, but in some of the rock genres there`s a lot of "noise".. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towelie Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 well what i mean is it can be trippy to ohter people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonMan Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Yes, there are similarities but: ¿4/4?, as Cybernetika said check out metal stuff like Meshuggah, A Life Once Lost, The Dillinger Scape Plan or Converge and tell me how many 4/4 rhythms do you find on each track. About fast tempo i could say there are loads of down tempo metal bands like Damn, I knew I shouldn't have generalised ! As I said, metal is a broad church and getitng broader by the day. As you say some bands as exploring the further reches of tempo and metre (hope I've spelt that right) as well as extreme key signitures and like to mix it all up. I'm not sure you basic bigtime rock band does though. oh, and psychedelic goa is one thing that metal isn't.... : TRIPPY Erm, Jimmy Hendrix, Purple Haze ? and I suggest you go and listen to the "Space Ritual" right now. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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