dj mylo Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 hmmmm good question! Say I play 25 tracks in a set. And I only play 1 track off each cd. This set would cost me 300 Euro. Maybe I could make some money off it at a festival, but at a club gig .... think again. Fortunately, I have a day job, so I can afford to buy cd's. But if my only income was being a DJ I honestly don't think I would buy a single cd. Rather feed myself with the money! So I can understand why soooo many dj's use pirated tunes out there. I have seen a lot of it in my 5 years at the decks. Even some of the big names. Personally, I don't think it's wrong. If some DJ copies my music I am happy! Thrilled in fact. Let him have the 12 euro so that he can survive as a dj and keep playing my music! Dj's bring the music to the masses. Downloading means they can get the music really quickly. Maybe even before release. And that is a good thing. Nothing like having your CD hit the shelves and the song is already a hit on the dancefloor! This is very valuable promotion. The way I see it is if the DJ copies an album that he wouldn't normally afford or have access to this is o.k. He will expose this music to hundreds and thousands of people. Say a copied CD get's played at a festival - let's say 3000 people are exposed to it, and if the DJ has chosen for his/her set then it has a special stamp of approval. It must be an important release. Say 30% of the people decide to buy the album - then that's 1000 x 12 euro. And 12 000 Euro from 1 burned disc isn't so bad afterall! Not to mention the countless gigs the artist would get out of the exposure. Sure, this is just an example, but I guess you see my point. Consumer Piracy is bad. DJ piracy is not soooo bad. In fact it could be very good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towelie Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 i download everything , music games progs movies ..and dont feel bad about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAH Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Say a copied CD get's played at a festival - let's say 3000 people are exposed to it, and if the DJ has chosen for his/her set then it has a special stamp of approval. It must be an important release. Say 30% of the people decide to buy the album - then that's 1000 x 12 euro. And 12 000 Euro from 1 burned disc isn't so bad afterall! Not to mention the countless gigs the artist would get out of the exposure. Sure, this is just an example, but I guess you see my point. Consumer Piracy is bad. DJ piracy is not soooo bad. In fact it could be very good! 325772[/snapback] let's disregard for a moment wether downloading is good or bad. DJ's that get all this promotional material help in some regard the labels and do make their music known... but let's admit it... who in the crowd is going to go to the dj booth and actuallyt bother asking 'hey whats song is that' does that happen to you often? So yeah a lot of people hear the music, but they go home thinking "hmm... dj such-and-such is great' they are not thinking 'wow! i have to look for x artist cause that break min 45 blew me away" so... how much of a valuable promotion is it in the end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Milk Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 well....its kinda like masturbating. every one raises their arms in denial when questioned about it, but kick open their bedroom door at 01:30 in the morning and your likely to catch them in the act of downloading to their hard drive.. 325718[/snapback] yeah its like cheating, every one raises their arms in denial when questioned about it, but all guys know that if they can they will shag the sexy neighbour. j/k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj mylo Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 let's disregard for a moment wether downloading is good or bad. DJ's that get all this promotional material help in some regard the labels and do make their music known... but let's admit it... who in the crowd is going to go to the dj booth and actuallyt bother asking 'hey whats song is that' does that happen to you often? 325780[/snapback] Too often! When the DJ box is elevated it's o.k. But when you are on ground level it's a different story. So yeah a lot of people hear the music, but they go home thinking "hmm... dj such-and-such is great' they are not thinking 'wow! i have to look for x artist cause that break min 45 blew me away" so... how much of a valuable promotion is it in the end? 325780[/snapback] Exposure. You hear it at the party - you dance your ass off! - you recognise the preview on Psyhop.com - you say "my Fuck, they played this at the festival! - you hopefully buy it ( if you have the money to spend that is! ) If you don't believe me, then take a look at the "Lost tracks" section of this forum. People say" I went to a festival and heard this track where I woman says something about floating in a sea of bliss or something." Days later the track is identified. and hopefully purchased! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAH Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Exposure. You hear it at the party - you dance your ass off! - you recognise the preview on Psyhop.com - you say "my Fuck, they played this at the festival! - you hopefully buy it ( if you have the money to spend that is! ) 325792[/snapback] well i we go to diff parties then... but i am glad the situation is changing and people are becoming interested in the artists themselves. If you don't believe me, then take a look at the "Lost tracks" section of this forum. People say" I went to a festival and heard this track where I woman says something about floating in a sea of bliss or something." Days later the track is identified. and hopefully purchased! well hopefully but let's admit a great majority of threads on the lost tracks section go along the lines of I heard this mind blowing trtack in the forest party in Finland couple weeks ago and it totally rocked my world for some minutes. Its a morning track and i dont know how to describe it but there was a nice melody in the track that made me think it could be from finland, or even ireland some kind of a really old melody. I hope someones bells are ringing:) 319941[/snapback] http://www.psynews.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=27039 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj mylo Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 well hopefully but let's admit a great majority of threads on the lost tracks section go along the lines of... 325796[/snapback] sure Rah, it's actually quite entertaining! And as we can see they have been exposed to a track at a party and are now trying to get hold of it. Regardless of how vague their description is! These people are hunting down music they've been exposed to previously, and hopefully with their wallets open! Thanks to a dj in a forest in Finland! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAH Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 word! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 I don't give a flying fuck anymore.. however the people who don't buy the music they really like are very lame I'm not saying you have to buy it immediately or anything.. but at some time while the label is still actually running and shit.. Oh and in some cases it's impossible to buy stuff since it's not available anywhere.. and even if it's it comes with a 200€ price tag.. and frankly 0% of that money goes to the label/artist.. so I guess it's ok to download those Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 ..and "I have no money" is very bad excuse if you're blowing shit loads of money to drugs.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psytones Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 umm.. DL all you want, but buy some albums. (Especially the ones you love) Not everyone has a job. Not everyone has a well payed job. Not everyone cares if their albums are original or not (how can you think like that?) Not everyone is old enough to 1. have a job at all (or their just students) 2. get a VISA card. Not everyone has good taste, so alot of full-on albums is selling well, while the "real2 psy is left in the darkness selling almost no albums. List your original albums at www.discogs.com. PS. I got an iPod, but I miss my discman. Because then I could play one (original) album, and get to know it. With the iPod, the feeling I used to have is fading. But hell. I love my new iPod. PS. Make shure you have money to buy original albums and drugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 I haven't got a visa.. Visa electron though works at some shops.. like trance-shop.com for example Cash On Delivery is an option too if you're ordering more than 3 cds.. come to think of it my income is quite crap in the finnish standards.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 I just say this: Music is made for listening and not for making money. Downloading is good, because it spreads the emotions that the music awakens and that's the whole point of music. "But if people couldn't make a living... bla bla bla... there would be less music out there" Yeah, and that would be good, because then the only music out there would be the ones who really cared about music and not about money, so it would all in all be better music. 325521[/snapback] word as far as i remember Mozart, Bach, Janis Joplin, Fredy Mercury, Charlie Park, Dizzie Gillespie are all paid artists... do you think they would have released such great tunes in their respective category without being paid?... the difference between amateur and professional, is that people actually pay for the music you produce... buying plastic still spreads emotions... you do what you want and thats fine, but let's not look for spiritual/philosphical excuses about it ... sorry i was biting my tongue... i guess i better get some sleep now... 325526[/snapback] most of them were surely not rich, some even at the borderlines of poverty... and their work was appreciated years after their death. £8 on saikosounds / just under £9 on psyshop. That's hardly expensive, compared to commercial music stores like HMV which jack up album prices to around £16. 325599[/snapback] which is about 15 euros...not THAT much but still expensive... let alone that here most new releases are 18-20 euros... yeah, lame. ..and "I have no money" is very bad excuse if you're blowing shit loads of money to drugs.. or beers @ pubs... :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAH Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 word most of them were surely not rich, some even at the borderlines of poverty... and their work was appreciated years after their death. which is about 15 euros...not THAT much but still expensive... let alone that here most new releases are 18-20 euros... yeah, lame. or beers @ pubs... :D 325861[/snapback] one word nick... whatever dude, quite frankly... whatever... we live in a capitalist society everyone gets or should get payed for what they do whether that might washing bodies, making music or giving blowjobs... thats how life works... maybe you don't understand this because you don't have to go out there and make a living, but when you do you will understand that the things you do in life should come with a cost. and the cost that society has placed on us is money, it dosen't appeal everyone but we still have to live under those rules... yes go download im not saying don't do it cause im not your dad... but let's not make excuses about it, if everyone in this forum has enough money to spend on high speed internet access, computers and drugs and then there is money to be spend on music if you really wanted, like treveller said (wow we agree on something finally ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraph Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 I only download old stuff that was released on few comps or rare albums that I simply CAN'T find anywhere or that are not sold anymore. I am all for downloading old classics that by this time are owned only by the first byers that happen to bought one of those copies among 'lousy' 500-1000 copies that they were printed in the GOLDEN era of UNDERGROUND where the best music was STRICTLY underground. That is one of the reasons I always felt sorry for timeless classics ( 94-00 ), cause after they print originally they only release next batch of copies on some remastered version many years later or not even release it at all. I don't bother downloading new albums at all, I can always listen to the samples at Psyshop or Saikosounds, plus it is not that interesting to download new albums cause I like that crispy sound of CD quality with new music. But I do admit that after I heard about Nystagmus album and how it sounds I was immediately tempted and queued it for download few days ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moni Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 ok, here is a point of view from eastern europe: i think everybody has the right to choose how they spend their money. we all have a certain amount in our pockets, and for some people buying cds may not be a priority. buying food, paying the rent, paying the bills, buying some clothes, transport expenses, some pocket-money .. may finish your resources. right now i am trying to save money for a next summer trip (maybe a couple of festivals). and it's hard. imagine that a person from western europe may earn 5-7-10 times more money than a person from eastern europe. sure, people in western europe have also expenses and stuff, but in the case of saving money, it's much easier to them. travelling costs the same for western europe people, as well as for eastern europe people. it's the same with cds. why do festivals sell 2 types of tickets (eastern europe and western europe prices)? because they want eastern europe to be able to afford the tickets, buy them, come to the festival. so yeah, if festivals show their support to eastern europe, then eastern europe will also show its support to festivals. it's the same with labels. sadly, as far as i know, CDs have the same price, no matter where you live, no matter what your income is. if they would consider making a lower price for eastern europe countries, they would sell much more. i have no idea, maybe some labels already do different prices. i doubt it though. i talked to one of the owners of Trishula Records, and they are willing to sell their releases in eastern europe at a lower price. i was pretty surprised to hear that actually. i admire them for this. as a conclusion, here is the economical point of view. price - total cost = profit 1. if the price is small, then the profit per product will be smaller, but the sales figures may be bigger, thus the total profit will be bigger. 2. the price is big, the profit per product is bigger, but the sales may be smaller. thus the total profit will be smaller. if labels/artists want to make a living out of music .. maybe they should start thinking bussiness. meet the consumer's needs half way. i'd love to buy many many original cds and have a big collection. but right now, i just can't buy much. even so, as i said, everybody has the right to choose how they spend their money. if i want to download the cd to make sure i want to buy it, i will download it. the possibility is there, and tempting. Edit: i will be impressed if anyone will actually read my post. some people don't like eastern europe very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 I'm not really into downloading but on the other hand I understand when people that are students or live on poor countries can't afford to buy a lot of albums. So I personally think if you at least buy some stuff it's not that bad. And about the CD prices: Well, there are differences. In Switzerland CDs are damn expensive!! When I buy a new CD it's about 30 Fr, sure there are special prices like 19.90 for a new album when it's in the charts and even some well-known psy stuff like Astrix is sometimes reduced to 23.90. But most of the times I have to pay the full price. If I order from psyshop the price for one CD is 17.90... Well, I don't want to complain since we also higher incomes than other countries, but still, people here are not all rich. But that's just a sidenote on the original topic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moni Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 ok, let's not start crying that we are poor. many of us DO have jobs or are students with incomes. nevertheless, there are many people downloading music, no matter if they have money or not, or if they also buy the original cd or not. the possibility to download exists, the sources and resources exist, so we can't blame anyone for downloading music. it's a free will thing. still, leachers & downloaders also promote music and support the scene, else it wouldn't exist. look at people in festivals. you reckon they all have big collections of original cds? for all the artists/producers/djs/etc ... look at the people dancing while you're playing. many people in that crowd may be downloaders who paid a ticket to get into the party/festival. and hell knows there are many parties and festivals happening around the world. some people travel thousands of km to see performances. and if artists quit making music because it's not making them rich, so be it. i haven't heard any artists complaining: "man i hate all these gigs in festivals, i hate to see the crowd dancing while i'm spinning, i hate travelling and and i hate all those beautiful countries and places, i hate all these festivals and parties." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest antic Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 OK, I've got an idea (inspired by moni's posts, I'm from Poland and I work in finances so I know what she's talking about ) Let all of us try to find how high the average salary in your country is and divide it by the average cost of psy-trance CD in your country. We'll see how many CDs could average person buy if he/she would spend ALL the money on it. Ofcourse there is still the problem of relatively bigger fixed expanses in Poland than for example Germany (you can save less money in Poland than Germany from your salary, because the fixed expanses (food, rent and others) are more expensive in relation to the salary), but for the sake of this survey we can accept that. I think the average salary should be used, because only then the numbers would be independent of our personal salaries, which might be bigger or lower and therefore not representative for the country. In Poland last years average salary was 2300PLN (it is approx. 500EUR), out of which 1/3 goes for taxes, so we are left with 1533PLN. Considering that one psy-trance CD costs 55PLN (thats the price from psyshop including postage, because you can't buy psytrance in polish shops at all), we have 1533/55=28 POLAND: 28CDs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rain Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 I just say this: Music is made for listening and not for making money. Downloading is good, because it spreads the emotions that the music awakens and that's the whole point of music. "But if people couldn't make a living... bla bla bla... there would be less music out there" Yeah, and that would be good, because then the only music out there would be the ones who really cared about music and not about money, so it would all in all be better music. 325521[/snapback] same thought over here ok, let's not start crying that we are poor. many of us DO have jobs or are students with incomes. ." 326088[/snapback] I can pay my internetconnection but that's where it ends for music... i gave all my money to a good music installation... had too chose between that and buying cd's... I say quality goes first ... but then again it's just for homelistening so ... if people make money out of downloaded cd's that's a problem but if you don't pfffff who cares (the artist probably ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Journey Man Project Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 So can we argue that house are made for living and not money? We should just squat whjerever? Should we argu that art is for looking at and not money so we should just steal all art? all the pro downloading arguements are pure SHIT!! there is no excuse, go buy it you lazy bums or go without. Download ign is as dumb as carrying drugs into Bali!! Stop being selfish fucks and spend some cash!! It's not hard!! I have no respect for downloaders!! Scum of the earth, raping the artists of income is as bad as raping a woman on the street! And yes I can say this as I NEVER have downloaded 1 song illegally... I have spent over $3,000US on psytrance alone. If you can;t get it then just go without. No resect and this topic is just shit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Journey Man Project Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 ok, here is a point of view from eastern europe: i think everybody has the right to choose how they spend their money. we all have a certain amount in our pockets, and for some people buying cds may not be a priority. buying food, paying the rent, paying the bills, buying some clothes, transport expenses, some pocket-money .. may finish your resources. right now i am trying to save money for a next summer trip (maybe a couple of festivals). and it's hard. imagine that a person from western europe may earn 5-7-10 times more money than a person from eastern europe. sure, people in western europe have also expenses and stuff, but in the case of saving money, it's much easier to them. travelling costs the same for western europe people, as well as for eastern europe people. it's the same with cds. why do festivals sell 2 types of tickets (eastern europe and western europe prices)? because they want eastern europe to be able to afford the tickets, buy them, come to the festival. so yeah, if festivals show their support to eastern europe, then eastern europe will also show its support to festivals. it's the same with labels. sadly, as far as i know, CDs have the same price, no matter where you live, no matter what your income is. if they would consider making a lower price for eastern europe countries, they would sell much more. i have no idea, maybe some labels already do different prices. i doubt it though. i talked to one of the owners of Trishula Records, and they are willing to sell their releases in eastern europe at a lower price. i was pretty surprised to hear that actually. i admire them for this. as a conclusion, here is the economical point of view. price - total cost = profit 1. if the price is small, then the profit per product will be smaller, but the sales figures may be bigger, thus the total profit will be bigger. 2. the price is big, the profit per product is bigger, but the sales may be smaller. thus the total profit will be smaller. if labels/artists want to make a living out of music .. maybe they should start thinking bussiness. meet the consumer's needs half way. i'd love to buy many many original cds and have a big collection. but right now, i just can't buy much. even so, as i said, everybody has the right to choose how they spend their money. if i want to download the cd to make sure i want to buy it, i will download it. the possibility is there, and tempting. Edit: i will be impressed if anyone will actually read my post. some people don't like eastern europe very much. 326079[/snapback] Interesting I ust admit... oh and I love Eastern europe Spent 7 months backpacking all ove rhtere, kicks arse over England, France and the rest of the west... actually anything West country wise int his world is pretty shit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Journey Man Project Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Owe and my average income for the last seven years i $15,000 Aussie dollare = $11,961.60 US... now take into acount I spent $500.00 a month on rent, food, bill and petrole... $100 month on photocopying etc. for university leaves me only %5,000 US a year in savings... take in to account the $10,000 us I pay off to my dad for a car loan... yet I buy my cd's and if I can't I go without!! Get a job and pay for it you freeloading fucks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moni Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 OK, I've got an idea (inspired by moni's posts, I'm from Poland and I work in finances so I know what she's talking about ) POLAND: 28CDs 326104[/snapback] i saw something similar on news a couple of weeks ago, based on a study on all european countries. only they were calculating how many liters of fuel can (for example) a scandinavian buy with an average salary, and how many liters can a romanian buy with his 1 month income ... considering that the price is almost the same. (1 liter of fuel is 1 euro here, and it's 1.2 or 1.3 in north i think). sad news for eastern europe hum, your idea is not bad antic, but i don't think some people will care about it. not in this thread at least. you could start a new topic though So can we argue that house are made for living and not money? We should just squat whjerever? Should we argu that art is for looking at and not money so we should just steal all art? all the pro downloading arguements are pure SHIT!! there is no excuse, go buy it you lazy bums or go without. Download ign is as dumb as carrying drugs into Bali!! Stop being selfish fucks and spend some cash!! It's not hard!! I have no respect for downloaders!! Scum of the earth, raping the artists of income is as bad as raping a woman on the street! And yes I can say this as I NEVER have downloaded 1 song illegally... I have spent over $3,000US on psytrance alone. If you can;t get it then just go without. No resect and this topic is just shit! 326118[/snapback] mike, please concentrate and type english correctly, it's your mother tongue. in your case, you are not allowed to make a big mess of your texts. or maybe you need a new keyboard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundrop Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Scum of the earth, raping the artists of income is as bad as raping a woman on the street! you are messed in the head to say that. i buy all the CDs for which i want to own the tracks. but they all get a listen by download first... how else can i know what to buy? what artists and labels might do, is release 128bit versions of albums early on the mp3 networks, with little promotion clip at the end of each song. before the RIPpers put out the 320bit VBR versions. that way the medium-quality version spreads. and more people would opt to buy the full quality versions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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