Beat-Matching - 0.7% multiples

[thebadtrip]

A friend of mine who plays quite okay only uses multiples of 0.7% pitch steps to beat match psytrance.

 

I find it quite amateur, but at the same time it does work for him.

I know the math.. etc.. But I'd like to know:

 

Do the DJs here use that too?

You beat-match using your ears only?

You beat-match using multiples of 0.7% only?

Do you sometimes take the multiples as a guide to get to the right pitch a bit faster?

My brother has been a DJ for 15 years and he laughed when I told him my friend DJed using that and I sort of agree because I think music is more than math..

 

I'm starting to learn now that I bought the equipment.

 

So.. opinions?

Thanks

[Guest]

Why does he use multiples of 0.7%? Something to do with 7 being a prime number or something???

[X-scream]

I wouldn't trust it entirely, give it some time and you'll eventually reach a point when you just 'feel it' (hard to describe ) and you can get it very close (say within 0.1%) in seconds.. ,

 

I do notice that for newer stuff the rule seem to work very well... but it seems that with old-school/vinyl the bpms aren't always exactly at X.0

[dmtree]

only works if the CD players use +- 10% pitch (pioneer cdjs for example) and the bpm of the track is around 142-146. At higher and lower bpm's it won't work as well, same with CD players that use +-6% or 12% pitch bend. but usually it's close enough..

 

also there are quite a few tracks that aren't set on an exact bpm, though the majority of modern full-on psy is at 144 or 145 bpm.

[thebadtrip]

Below's the list of the BPMs and the % on the pitch bend you need to change to achieve a 1 BPM in songs speed.

 

BPM % to change 1 BPM

137 0.73%

138 0.72%

139 0.72%

140 0.71%

141 0.71%

142 0.70%

143 0.70%

144 0.69%

145 0.69%

146 0.68%

147 0.68%

148 0.68%

 

What I hear most young not-pro-but-I-they-think-they're-very-good DJs say is that 'there's no mystery.. it's all math'.

 

This one dude I know writes the BPMs for all tracks on his case so when he gets in front of a Pioneer CDJ (usually what's available around here) all he does is 'do the math'.

 

I would say nowadays, with music being produced mostly on softwares such as Cubase, Logic, Live, Reason and others producers would probably just go for round numbers for the tracks' tempos.

 

Anyway.. I hope other DJs give me extra-hints/opinions regarding this.

 

And yes - I am sure after a lot of practice and experience it shouldn't take long to get tracks on the same tempo.. I see my brother doing it and it takes just a few seconds. Very classy

 

Thanks

[thebadtrip]

only works if the CD players use +- 10% pitch (pioneer cdjs for example) and the bpm of the track is around 142-146. At higher and lower bpm's it won't work as well, same with CD players that use +-6% or 12% pitch bend. but usually it's close enough..

 

also there are quite a few tracks that aren't set on an exact bpm, though the majority of modern full-on psy is at 144 or 145 bpm.

333903[/snapback]

Why wouldn't it work with other CD Decks? A 0.7% increase means a 0.7% increase. Shouldn't matter on the player.

I think if it doesn't work on other players - even if it's there saying 0.7% change - the player is fond of the trash bin. I wouldn't buy such equipment.

[dj mylo]

I use this sytem. It really is a big help. But use your ears to beatmix, not a calculator!

 

 

I measure all bpm's before so when I load up the cdj I can adjust the pitch immediately. Then I know it is the the correct "zone". Then I use the headphones and make the really fine adjustments.

 

I have always used the math formula and I find it terrific, because you can spend a little more time working on the perfect "next track", as well as thinking about how you gonna mix it in.

 

At the end of the day it doesn't matter how you get to a great mix, as long as it's a great mix!

 

good luck

[delars]

as you said, it's a good guideline to find the exact bpm, as it ins't always a multiplice of 0.7, lots of oldskool releases aren't for example

 

but a the same time i think it's stupid to deny it's existane, or to call it childish to use it,

it's there dude, if you want it or not. it would be stupid to fool yourself by imagining it isn't...

[GaySatanicHippie]

oh god. i ve been messing around with djing stuff for like ten years already, and i never even had the idea of writing down bpms or calculating. that just seems really really weird.

 

I only mix with my ears, thats the only way to do it right and to mix anything other than just stupid full-on from 144 to 145 bpm. If you try mixing anythinmg else, it just wont work unless you can feel the beat

[Guest]

i use this system. and i dont understand whats wrong about it.

who cares how i mix as long as my mixes sound good and people keep on dancing...

[thebadtrip]

i use this system. and i dont understand whats wrong about it.

who cares how i mix as long as my mixes sound good and people keep on dancing...

335063[/snapback]

 

Do you guys who use the 0.7% pitch-scale mix songs from 120-135 BPM as well? How succesfull are you in doing so?

 

If you're in great hurry for a kick-ass party you'll be playing at and you have just bought a CD and there's no time to write down it's BPM.. you still able to play the track perfectly at a party?

 

I think I am more or less measuring the ability of those "0.7%-DJs" to do the job. I know a lot of just-born-DJs who use it, but I don't know any old-school DJs who use it.

 

Got it?

[Guest]

It does not matter what system you use, as long as the results are good. You could roll some magic dice if you so liked.

 

As for mathamatics. Everything is mathamatics. Our very universe is based on maths.

[sundrop]

psytrance is all math

 

its made with computers

 

i think its ironic that people think math ruins the magical "feeling" of techno music

 

i use the .7 rule alot, as the first step to beatmatch. its a better guide than any BPM counter, but to do it by ear is the only reliable way

 

mua

[Guest]

first post here

 

This technic must only be used has a guide and not a rule.

 

I always calculate my track with +- 0.7% to put the track on the same speed, when im close tho i start digging deeper with +-0.1 and always play with the pitch afterward because you CAN'T have a perfect match.

 

 

Also the bpm counter is a plain indicator at which speed i go... it doesn't help the beatmatch at all... everytime i used it, i got it wrong.

 

Use the 0.7 for BPM step, and your ears to make the beatmatch

 

 

 

When i mix slower bit like prog psy and psy house i use +-0.8 instead of 0.7. Again these are only MARKER in my mind to get closer to the playing speed, sometimes you go way outside the 0.7 !

[dmtree]

Why wouldn't it work with other CD Decks? A 0.7% increase means a 0.7% increase. Shouldn't matter on the player.

I think if it doesn't work on other players - even if it's there saying 0.7% change - the player is fond of the trash bin. I wouldn't buy such equipment.

334837[/snapback]

eh, it should work, logically speaking, but it doesn't. on some CD decks you have to nudge the damn thing all the time, and it's always the ones with the 6% or 12% or 16% pitch shift.

 

i think it has to do with the pitch stretching mechanism, the 0.1% on a 6% pitch slider is a slightly different, maybe a bit wider range than on a +-10%. anyway, I don't farking know, it's just what i've noticed. you go try it, tell me if it works for you. it's a possibility i may have been hallucinating all these years.

 

 

 

and yes, while most new tracks are on a full BPM, there are quite a few that are on half bpm or even 144.33333 type thing. so yeah, use your ears, trainwreckers, don't trust the math all the time because it won't work all the time, and if you trainwreck once, that's once too much. anyway, learn how to beatmatch without using the math because you should be able to hear the beats and tell the speed instantly without looking at the display - if you want people to think you're a DJ and not a wanker that is.

[thebadtrip]

learn how to beatmatch without using the math because you should be able to hear the beats and tell the speed instantly without looking at the display - if you want people to think you're a DJ and not a wanker that is. 

335674[/snapback]

That's what I wanted to hear.

hahaha

 

I studied enough math to get my engineering degree. I'd like to FEEL it a bit more instead of calculating it all from now on

 

Right on, dude!

[dj mylo]

you should be able to hear the beats and tell the speed instantly without looking at the display - if you want people to think you're a DJ and not a wanker that is. 

335674[/snapback]

People will only think you are a wanker if you trainwreck. How ever would "people" know how you get to a beatmix??? weird

 

anyway

 

badtrip......

 

The math is helpful dude. You can spend like 30 min trying to get the speeds to match if you have no idea what bpm range you are in. Like I said... "use your ears ". But remember that a novice dj won't immediately hear how much a track has to be sped up or down instantly. You have to practice getting it right many times until you can start to hear the differences in speed. This takes a loooooooooong time! The main thing right now is for you to get used to the sound of 2 tracks together, and noticing when 1 of the 2 starts to drift off tempo. The math will help you set this up. When you drop in the next track in your headphones it's all up to your ears to judge if the the speeds are actually correct or whether you have to shift things around a bit to make it fit ( using the jog dial. )

 

Don't worry, you are not a wanker if you use the math! Then 80% of the pro Psytrance world out there would be wankers! ( O.K, granted, about 50% at least are wankers! but not because of the math!)

 

Using mathematics means you are just precise. And good mixing is about precision. However you decide to approach it. Just "don't drop the baby" as we used to say!

[thebadtrip]

It's hard for me to understand that a DJ with more than 2-years experience - I'm talking about a person practicing at least 10 hours/week - would NEED such thing.

 

My brother is a house DJ - has been for 10+ years - and he mixes songs in no time.. He let the channel open and before you notice the beats climbing over each other VOILA! they're there... He changed them beasts into a broken beat that sounded actually groovy or something. And he does that while getting the crowd to move with big smiles on their faces, arms up, whistling and shouting.

 

It's amazing to see how House DJs perform way better than psytrance - In my opinion - pros. You go watch Sasha and Digweed versus the top 'on the spot light' psychedelic names. Then you compare Mau-Mau, Mr. Cox.. They mix 3-4 songs within ONE 'track' for the crowd. Minutes-long mixes, switching from one to another and the crowd is listening to 'one amazing' track when there's actually a lot going on.

 

I've never seen such thing through Psytrance (I'm a newbie listener... started in Aug last year). Felix Da housecat exploded Club Privilege in Búzios - Rio with a unique sound.

 

A house-crowd seems to be more picky than the young psy-lovers. And that you can see through the artists. Psytrance abuses of highs, climaxes, turn arounds and I've never seen a psytrance DJ play for an entire set without breaking the dance-mood at least once.

 

This is way off-topic. I'm gonna paste some of this - with changes - in another thread. I'm new to this 'scene' (I hate this denomination), I love it and I wanna know what others have to share about their perceptions.

[Guest]

The thign with house music is that this music kinda SUCK for it's content.

 

Let me explain, i like House. But it's empty of sound most of the time. I mean there's like only 50 layer of different sound pilling each other.

 

2 track house perfectly blended together mixing for 2 mins = 30-50 layer of sound

 

2 track of full on mixing for 2 mins = 200+ layer of sound

 

So basicly... you can't mix house like trance like techno like Dnb like psytrance... each genre has it's technic. I don't mix prog house like i mix full on. I have really hard time sometimes because there's TOO much sound pilled to hear the kick correctly.

 

Also at 130 bpm it's easier to catch up when you trainwreck, because you got more time between kick to adjust. And after 10 year... YOU really hear it.

 

I mixed 1h/week for 2 years now and i'm way better then some guy that have been mixing 20h a week for the last 2 years. DJing is all about Theories and principale, technic and pratical use is only the other part of the job. You gotta know how it work to make it work efficiently.

 

Anyway... all that to say that you mix the way you want, nobody cares, has long has you deliver for the crowd and you don't trainwreck!

[dj mylo]

@Badtrip

Like you say, dj's should be creative. Getting the beats to match is a really small part of being a good dj. Beatmixing is a platform on which a dj can perform, it is a minimum requirment. The last thing you should have to worry about is if the speeds match. With that behind you it's all about what you play and when you play it. Controlling the the groove and the journey and the moment, not only the speeds. Hell sometimes I don't even look at the cdj's or use the math - the pitch is on 0% and I'm only playing tracks at 144bpm. Original tempo. Whatever. Beatmixing is really not that difficult when you KNOW for sure the tracks are at the same speed before you drop in your track and handle the transition.

 

I guess what I am saying is there is a technical side and a creative side. Once you got the tech sorted - the fun begins! Tech means maths, bpm's measured or whatever you'd like to prepare before and understanding the structure of each track you have in your bag. When you KNOW the beats are in, you can give all your attention to blowing peoples minds. You will find your own technique as you go forward, i'm sure

 

good luck

 

@spannungsbogen

Word!

[dmtree]

Beatmixing is easy with math or without math. It's the easiest part of DJing. Period.

 

DJ Mylo - it's pretty obvious when someone is using only the 0.7 method and not relying on their ears enough. especially noobs. super-easy to tell.

 

and there will be many many times when the math is useless. if you're playing a very fast set, or a slow set, for example. 144 is not always appropriate, I can give you a million examples when I had to slow the music down to 135, still playing full-on psytrance. in which case the math is pretty useless.

 

 

i agree with you on the rest - the music, the flow, the feeling, the EQs, the proper mixing are just as important.

 

then you get to crowd control, up and down flow, taking people deeper and bringing them out. there's lots of things to keep in mind, always.

[sundrop]

dude

 

mixing house is easier than mixing psytrance

especially the complex noisy fullon stuff...

 

try it and see.

 

its hard to match this stuff by ear, thats why .7 is used.

its second nature. i dont think about it, its not like i sit here calculating 'hmmm 145 minus 0.7 = 144" ... i just bump it down instantly in those multiples and then start to fine tune. if you dont want to use this trick, then dont... hehe. in fact u may be better off in the long run without using BPM at all.

 

but there are psy DJs who can keep the crowd moving.

they are rarer than house/trance DJs.

 

ps. i like to mix in some steve murano and assorted house with psy at house parties,

cause it keeps people dancing and havin fun it also gives a break on the ears from all the noisy psy

[thebadtrip]

@ Mylo

I do agree with you. But I still believe a pro DJ wouldn't take long at all to find the speed of 2 songs.

 

Another point I'd like to talk about is discussed on the thread below - General forum -

 

http://www.psynews.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=27693

 

Thanks for all the comments.

Healthy discussion

 

Play hard, mister DJs!!

[lurk]

i learnt to mix on vinyl by ear, but when i when i moved to cdj's i started to use the .7 thing; i don't trust it, and there are always some fine adjustments to be done; it's a good foundation. you can spend less time cueing it up and finding the tight tempo, and then spend more time on making sure the actual mix is smooth

[dmtree]

@sundrop

 

eh.. i dunno dude, mixing house into psytrance sets can work if it's in a club setting but if you pull that shit at a psy party, you might ruin the vibration. remember, psytrance isn't all about making people dance, it's about taking people on a journey through music.

 

and dude, mixing ANYTHING is easy. on turntables or CD players, with math or by ear, House, Psytrance, DnB, Breaks, whatever. Beatmatching and mixing skills are prerequisites for DJing. If it's still hard for you, you need more practice, simple as that.