Different Crowds = Different Artists

[thebadtrip]

I'm new to this 'scene' (I hate this denomination). And I love it and I wanna know what others have to share about their perceptions.

 

In my opinion House/Techno DJs perform way better than psytrance pros.

I believe psy-DJs create more volatile energy on the dance floor while house-music keeps the mood going at a very sound level.

 

You watch Sasha and Digweed versus the top 'on the spot light' psychedelic names. Then you compare Mau-Mau and Mr. Cox with Growling Mad Scientists, Infected Mushroom or Astrix.. Carl Cox mixes 3-4 songs within ONE 'track' for the crowd. 5-Minute-long multi-song-mixes, switching from one to another and the crowd is listening to 'one amazing' track when there's actually a lot going on behind the decks. Astrix explodes the dance floors with one of his hits.

 

 

Other e-music styles use bold and solid componenents throughout a track while psytrance abuses hysteria and mood-eruptions. Felix Da Housecat exploded Club Privilege, in Búzios - Rio, with a paced and deeper sound. And in Rio we DO NOT have an 'experienced' e-music crowd. Mylo used his "Drop the pressure" consistent now-mainstream tune to take ladies' breaths away at Skol Beats in São Paulo. Serge used his solid no-synth-remix of Alter Ego's Rocker to involve thousands of people @ the same SP's Skol Beats. Chris Liebing followed him with commenced energy on the groovy-floor.

 

I've never seen such thing through Psytrance (I'm a newbie listener... started in Aug last year). I have this feeling that Psytrance projects only achieve the same effects on the crowds with hit songs, not with great ability to mix hours of research, knowledge, incredible productions, great equipment features, feeling and experience. The only time I saw a psytrance DJ keep the crowd anxious for the next beat of a song was while listening to Astrix's medley of 4 different songs (GMS, Infected and 2 of his own productions), but that too sounded pre-made.

 

A house-crowd seems to be more picky than the young psy-lovers. And that you can see through the artists. Psytrance abuses of highs, climaxes, turn arounds and I've never seen a psytrance DJ play an entire set without breaking the dance-mood at least once. It's hard to blend different psy artists to form a homogeneous set, whilst you ONLY see this with house music's greatests.

 

At the psy parties and festivals I've been to in Brazil and at the Sonica festival in Italy this August I noticed that the crowd usually gets fired up when they listen to HITS. Songs that should pump the crowd up no matter what time, where or by whom they're played. The psytrance sets I've listened to often serve as 'background music' for people to have a chat on the dance floor or as burning-house chaos with loads of people going absolutely insane.

 

At house events I've been to it is all different.. The crowd never goes so crazy, movements are measured, more sensual and anxiety is often in the eyes of the dancers waiting for a minute for this same note to be repeated and then releasing a minimal change that - YES! - will free them to let their body loose, raise their arms, smile and shout elegantly.

 

I'd compare house music with champagne in Paris and psytrance to cold beer at a football match. Each one has its majesty - kings or crowd pleasing strikes, lovers - elegant royalty or hippies. Psytrance relates to nature and bare feet. The other relates to tradition and control.

 

Nose up or down, what is your perception of different styles of electronic music?

PS: I hope I wasn't too boring or anything.

PS2: I prefer to go insane with psytrance and to chill in the air conditioner with quality House. With a beer, of course.

[RAH]

excellent post mate, completly agree you...

 

having been 'educated' to deck wizards like you explain, Picotto, Sasha, Digweed, dave seaman, etc, etc... going to psy events and hearing astrix using reverbs to drown previous songs so he can start his shit, is like WTF happend to beatmatching

At some point someone should be able to mix these two together. And that is where progressive falls for me, in the minimal aspects that rely a lot on a steady but strong and polished groove at the same time using (but not abusing) peaks and other tools to get the crowd moving.

 

I enjoy them both now and again, depends on what im feeling like having that night...

[Sour Milk]

Nicely put man, I believe that house (as a whole genre) also has people waiting for the tune to break, but in its most recent trends (synthpop, electroclash, tech-house, progressive house) you can obviously see that the focus is put often in the leads/hi hats/cadence while in full on for instance, the bass has the biggest impact IMHO (not saying that the rest of the layers dont have any participation, just that the bass is essential). Thus, giving the crowd instant gratification, not letting the song to develop in a way that the rythm slowly puts you -inside-, its more like this crazyness going on that puts your blood pressure up in the sky.

 

Also the way the songs are structured, you can obviously see the effort to create a big climax after the song goes bassless or kickless just to explode or break putting the whole thing in your face.

 

A good listener will hear a song develop and take form, creating the feeling that you need to listen to the whole album to get the idea of the artist, not to explode every fucking 5 minutes so everyone has the crazy high, thats why full on doesnt appeal to old and experimented listeners.

 

[Time_Trap]

astrix = ... hm

 

anywayz

house is much easier to mix because it's much more minimal.... keep that in mind.

also you have a point but there are lotsa these dj's that dont do much mixing at all... just dance more of the time..>! really...

[furthur]

This is where good progressive (psy) DJs come in. Emok for example imo can do what you describe.

[el brujo]

i dont give a damn about mixing

and i dont like 3-4 songs going together

goa songs (if we may call them songs) have a story to tell

they re not just for yhe dancefloor

so it is not emotianlly and technically produced for mixing

and it started with dats and casette tapes

so no mixing was involved

and dont forget goa was too hot to spin vinyl

and i danced for days and didnt care a bit about mixing

i care about the stories of the songs

getting lost in layers

i dont want drive drive drive

this is not the thing about this music

 

altough the ones you re talking baout

the full on guys and the israely trance crew

maybe they should do what you say

because they focus on actually only the dancing side of this phenomena

[Guest The Journey Man Project]

Yes I agree that psytrance and goa trance has nothing to do with dj's beat matching or mixing well!! If you want beat matching go to a techno or house party, if you want a journey or a trip go to a psy party... you need to understand the history of this scene before you make silly comments

[heva]

This is where good progressive (psy) DJs come in. Emok for example imo can do what you describe.

336569[/snapback]

I completely agree.

 

The only time I saw a psytrance DJ keep the crowd anxious for the next beat of a song was while listening to Astrix's medley of 4 different songs (GMS, Infected and 2 of his own productions), but that too sounded pre-made.

Interesting to note that the examples of psy artists that you use are the ones that generally people listen to when they first get into psytrance (GMS/Infected etc) and to be fair I don't think these are a fair representation of the psy scene as a whole. Compared to a progressive psy set for instance I think the crowds are very different.

 

The best example that I have experienced myself is the progressive stage at Voov, where you will see this:

 

The crowd never goes so crazy, movements are measured, more sensual and anxiety is often in the eyes of the dancers waiting for a minute for this same note to be repeated and then releasing a minimal change that - YES! - will free them to let their body loose, raise their arms, smile and shout elegantly.

yet it is still very psychedelic.

[RAH]

Yes I agree that psytrance and goa trance has nothing to do with dj's beat matching or mixing well!! If you want beat matching go to a techno or house party, if you want a journey or a trip go to a psy party... you need to understand the history of this scene before you make silly comments

336684[/snapback]

 

yeah.. but... how many "GOA" parties are there, where they ACTUALLY play the GOA do these days? exactly (except maybe if you are talking about a Suntrip records party )

 

so its fulll on, or it's progressive or is the louder stuff... which can tell a story but is also made to be beatmached like progressive in many instances anyway.

[el brujo]

i was definetly reffering to goa parties

and goatrance

not many but still there is

at least we make em

down here

and it still goes on both wehere the scene is old kind a back to roots attitude

and the new scenes that prefer Goa to Psy both in music and vibes

[RAH]

i was definetly reffering to goa parties

and goatrance

not many but still there is

at least we make em

down here

and it still goes on both wehere the scene is old kind a back to roots attitude

and the new scenes that prefer Goa to Psy both in music and vibes

336775[/snapback]

yeh, so do they still use DAT to mix or what?

[amphiton]

yeah.. but... how many "GOA" parties are there, where they ACTUALLY play the GOA do  these days? exactly  (except maybe if you are talking about a Suntrip records party )

 

so its fulll on, or it's progressive or is the louder stuff... which can tell a story but is also made to be beatmached like progressive in many instances anyway.

336767[/snapback]

 

We play GOA =) I'm organizing a party now with one very well know artist mentioned in a recent goa thread... Come here, U'll enjoy the party!

[Tox]

If you wanna hear GREAT mixing, try checking out

 

Bim

D-Nox

Emok

Banel

Peter Dijital

James Monroe

Sally Doollally

DJoanna & Alice D

Montagu & Golkonda

 

Special tip: DJ Gavin from Digital Structures!! Thàt guy rocked Rhytms of Peace

 

All progressive yet psychedelic & they all spin both records for far more than the usual 20sec fade in/out. It's true that progressive music or tribal stuff is smoother to mix than trying to layer 2tracks with 2melodies each nicely ontop of eachother.

But very often that's just an excuse for lazy & incompetent dj's not to make an effort (cfr Chicago at Boom2004, such a shame!)

 

But it càn be done: Dimitri Nakov is a great dj, although I don't like his taste in music.

[el brujo]

no my friend they dont mix dats

they mix cd or vinyl

but they think the same

we love the songs

and the intro and outro of goatrance songs

are there for that mostly

because we like the whole song whole structure

it is like a book to read

dont like to tear down pages of a good book

anyways

choice or taste whatever you call it

and that also helps by the way

taking attention away from the dj

when dj makes a lot od things people start to have an awe on him

therefore it may en up in a tiesto kind of way the way rock died the way dj s become superstars and so on...

anyways again its a choice

[thebadtrip]

A good listener will hear a song develop and take form, creating the feeling that you need to listen to the whole album to get the idea of the artist, not to explode every fucking 5 minutes so everyone has the crazy high, thats why full on doesnt appeal to old and experimented listeners.

336525[/snapback]

I'd change the "good" to "most experienced". I believe it's related to how long a person has been listening to e-music, not about taste. Perhaps you agree, just wrote differently.

 

My DJ brother is 33, his DJ friends are around same age and what they say to me is that psytrance (as in the artists performing right now in Brazil and IN MOST BIG FESTIVALS around Europe) is just the access to electronic music in general because it is very appealing: a less-demanding crowd who wants to dance and trip. People who simply want to have fun, not really worrying "if this track was.. " or "if that song would be like.. " or even what artist is performing.

 

I listened to House way before psytrance and the first psy party I went to was my first time I took ecstasy. I believe I started listening to it with "different ears". And even though I rarely take any drugs nowadays I still enjoy all the crazy dancing and hysteria a lot

 

 

house is much easier to mix because it's much more minimal.... keep that in mind.

also you have a point but there are lotsa these dj's that dont do much mixing at all... just dance more of the time..>! really...  

336563[/snapback]

Yes, you are right and I know house is more minimal.

But my post was more like "will psytrance producers [not talking about Goa] develop their styles to a point where songs will have a better construction so as to fit OTHER tracks ending up being easily introduced into a consistent DJ set?"

 

 

This is where good progressive (psy) DJs come in. Emok for example imo can do what you describe.

336569[/snapback]

Progressive is very different. I'll give Emok a try

 

Yes I agree that psytrance and goa trance has nothing to do with dj's beat matching or mixing well!! If you want beat matching go to a techno or house party, if you want a journey or a trip go to a psy party... you need to understand the history of this scene before you make silly comments

336684[/snapback]

Sorry if I offended you. But I believe there's room for suave, smooth psytrance DJ Sets. Period. Groovy stuff!

 

 

I completely agree.

Interesting to note that the examples of psy artists that you use are the ones that generally people listen to when they first get into psytrance (GMS/Infected etc) and to be fair I don't think these are a fair representation of the psy scene as a whole.  Compared to a progressive psy set for instance I think the crowds are very different.

 

The best example that I have experienced myself is the progressive stage at Voov, where you will see this:

yet it is still very psychedelic.

336691[/snapback]

Don't you think listeners of progressive trance have been listening to trance for a longer period of time? Did you listen to GMS, Infected & Crew when you first got into psy? That's me right now, but I got an older e-music (in general) background. That's why I am moving faster into progressive trance, some ambient/chill-out music. I spent as much time on the chill out @ Sonica as I did on the main floor.

[heva]

Progressive is very different. I'll give Emok a try

Ye do! Emok rocks! He's partly responsible for the Iboga record label, so I have much respect for him - Iboga being my fave label. Excellent dj

 

Don't you think listeners of progressive trance have been listening to trance for a longer period of time? Did you listen to GMS, Infected & Crew when you first got into psy? That's me right now, but I got an older e-music (in general) background. That's why I am moving faster into progressive trance, some ambient/chill-out music. I spent as much time on the chill out @ Sonica as I did on the main floor.

336894[/snapback]

Yep for sure, I think most people's introduction to psytrance is with these artists. I used to love GMS when I first discovered psy, and spent many an hour stomping the night away to artists such as this. But like you say, I think a lot of people who have been listening to psy for a while make the move over to progressive. I don't want to generalise, but this is the case for a lot of people I know. To me it always sounds fresh, not like the [controversial comment]generic sounds of other more maintream psytrance artists[/controversial comment].

[unikos]

nice thread...

i dont think i ve got much more to contribute.. i pretty much agree with what u say!

 

theres another side of electronic music too. . idm/neo-industrial/bleeps scene!

i ve been to some parties/events that you cant really know if its a live or dj set or if it is a track playing or two, or none just some loop...

[thebadtrip]

nice thread...

i dont think i ve got much more to contribute.. i pretty much agree with what u say!

 

theres another side of electronic music too. . idm/neo-industrial/bleeps scene!

i ve been to some parties/events that you cant really know if its a live or dj set or if it is a track playing or two, or none just some loop...

336940[/snapback]

Could you say a bit more about that?

I have no idea what IDM/neo-industrial or Bleeps mean.

 

Thanks

[Sour Milk]

Could you say a bit more about that?

I have no idea what IDM/neo-industrial or Bleeps mean.

 

Thanks

337089[/snapback]

 

they are another subgenres of electronic dance music, IDM I believe stands for Intelligent Dance Music.

[thebadtrip]

they are another subgenres of electronic dance music, IDM I believe stands for Intelligent Dance Music.

337557[/snapback]

Hmmm arrogant name? Was it created by those full-of-shit music cults who like Portishead, never go out in the sun, wear dark clothes and sit in the corner of an empty room with a single lamp and an old fashioned boom box to listen to it?

 

IF they haven't slit their wrists after the first track, of course.

[Gnome]

Hmmm arrogant name? Was it created by those full-of-shit music cults who like Portishead, never go out in the sun, wear dark clothes and sit in the corner of an empty room with a single lamp and an old fashioned boom box to listen to it?

 

IF they haven't slit their wrists after the first track, of course.

337563[/snapback]

IDM is Aphex Twin,Autechre etc etc.

[RAH]

Hmmm arrogant name? Was it created by those full-of-shit music cults who like Portishead, never go out in the sun, wear dark clothes and sit in the corner of an empty room with a single lamp and an old fashioned boom box to listen to it?

 

IF they haven't slit their wrists after the first track, of course.

337563[/snapback]

are you talking about goths?

 

'intelligent' as far as im concerned is just delightful ambient music cause you don't really dance, is head-candy. Music to really sit down and trip your head off without necesarily having to listen to 'psychodelic trance'

 

you should try to it sometime is really something else

[thebadtrip]

are you talking about goths?

 

'intelligent' as far as im concerned is just delightful ambient music cause you don't really dance, is head-candy. Music to really sit down and trip your head off without necesarily having to listen to 'psychodelic trance'

 

you should try to it sometime is really something else

337586[/snapback]

Not talking about goths. Let them be. It was more of a bad-joke than a statement.

 

And 'intelligent' for me is "I like this music so I listen to it. You like that music, you listen to it. We don't bash others music tastes, but we share our opinions."

 

Intelligent is listening to what you enjoy without shutting your ears to other music you have barely ever listened to

 

Party on!

[postunder]

great post, put very well

thanks for an intresting read

[ritual om]

i dont give a damn about mixing

and i dont like 3-4 songs going together

goa songs (if we may call them songs) have a story to tell

they re not just for yhe dancefloor

so it is not emotianlly and technically produced for mixing

and it started with dats and casette tapes

so no mixing was involved

and dont forget goa was too hot to spin vinyl

and i danced for days and didnt care a bit about mixing

i care about the stories of the songs

getting lost in layers

i dont want drive drive drive

this is not the thing about this music

 

altough the ones you re talking baout

the full on guys and the israely trance crew

maybe they should do what you say

because they focus on actually only the dancing side of this phenomena

336660[/snapback]

 

 

correct