Different Crowds = Different Artists

[unikos]

i d describe IDM as being something post-breakbeat/jungle

and the parties i had in mind are parties with music in the apheks and autechre (thnx gnome) style.. although this genre is evolving right now day by day... really, i cant follow it!

i guess you can research labels like rephlex, warp, ant zen, hymen and find out more..

 

as for the "slitting wrists" part... well its not like that at all.. (got the joke) but you re not TOO far off.

its music made in northern europe.. long winters and cold.... parties in filthy basement warehouses in city centres with very dirty sound.. filthy breaks and basslines and kicks that are bad for the ears ; )

[thebadtrip]

i d describe IDM as being something post-breakbeat/jungle

and the parties i had in mind are parties with music in the apheks and autechre (thnx gnome) style..  although this genre is evolving right now day by day...  really, i cant follow it!

i guess you can research labels like rephlex, warp, ant zen, hymen and find out more..

 

as for the "slitting wrists" part...  well its not like that at all..  (got the joke) but you re not TOO far off.

its music made in northern europe.. long winters and cold.... parties in filthy basement warehouses in city centres with very dirty sound.. filthy breaks and basslines and kicks that are bad for the ears ; )

337869[/snapback]

Holy shit.. haha do people have bad trips if they're on acid?

I think I'd rather listen to pop-GMS or Carl Cox

 

Got any tracks on mp3 I could have access to?

My MSN is rafaelabreu@hotmail.com, my Skype (resume sending..) is badtripper

 

Thanks

[Sour Milk]

its "intelligent" I believe because it dives much more into "art", getting away from our day to day music with 4/4 beats, a bassline, mandatory hi hats...

 

is something you have to put attention enough to find sense and beauty. its great once you have found the idea, which of course, doesnt reveal itself that easily.

[khogg]

Interesting read.

 

Some thoughts.

 

Keep in mind where you are listening and who you listening too (i.e. Astrix & GMS etc.). Also, you talk about e-music and mention that you first took ecstasy at a Psy party, like that was the whole idea of the scene. I respectfully suggest that pure Psytrance (and not Psy-pop) is anything but e-music.

 

You also mentioned that your older brother thought that Psytrance was for:

 

"just the access to electronic music in general because it is very appealing: a less-demanding crowd who wants to dance and trip. People who simply want to have fun, not really worrying "if this track was.. " or "if that song would be like.. " or even what artist is performing."

 

I find this comment totally contrary to my own experience. Where I live, it's very hard to find anyone who like listening to ANY psytrance (even Astrix and GMS) for more than 1 or 2 minutes without looking restless and or bitching about how horrible it is. If anything, from my own observations, I would have said much the same thing about House music or general Eurotrance or any other mass rave/club music. You go to a club and Housey stuff is the standard, because anyone will put up with it and get down. I don't know why that is? It sounds like a complete reversal where you live which puzzles me.

 

You also said:

 

"But my post was more like "will psytrance producers [not talking about Goa] develop their styles to a point where songs will have a better construction so as to fit OTHER tracks ending up being easily introduced into a consistent DJ set?"

 

Again, I think you look at Psy from your background and miss the history and the true point. Minimal Psy (if you could even call it Psy) did just this for while. It was very mixable, but this really isn't the point of pure and good Psy. A good song really is a journey. It will open with beautiful sounds and maybe cool sample or whatever. Ideally it should progress nicely into the beat and the meat of the song. A good song is complete in itself (rare these days). This is why so few mixed Psy CD's are released. It's about the song and the album as an expression of a theme or mood or whatever.

 

And as a final note. I would admit that most Psy DJ's are horrible mixers. But I've always said that I'd prefer a DJ who mixes poorly but plays good songs than a DJ who mixes with no flaws but plays the same boring shit for hours on end. Again, it's about the song as being complete without the need to mix 5 songs before you get enough going on to make it interesting. In that sense, I've always thought of really good House DJ's as being more musicians with "artists" producing the various instruments they weave together.

 

To each their own.

[tower]

In any musical genre you will have people that are really talented and those who do not do the genre justice. In my experience psytrance dj's are far superior simply becuase the complexity of the tracks is much higher. As has been said earlier, psytrance tracks tend to be journeys unto themselves (actually goa was the example but i feel it applies to all psy except maybe fullon). Beyond a doubt the 2 most amazing dj sets i have heard have been Simon Posford (Shpongle set), and Prometheus (Younger Brother Set). Especially Prometheus, that guy has mad skills.

[Guest]

completely agree with your posts elbrujo

[thebadtrip]

Just bringing this back up. It's been quite some time since this post and I'd like to re-write some thoughs. Busy now, but I'll get back to this later.

[Dajek]

Hmmm arrogant name? Was it created by those full-of-shit music cults who like Portishead, never go out in the sun, wear dark clothes and sit in the corner of an empty room with a single lamp and an old fashioned boom box to listen to it?

337563[/snapback]

 

The term was coined by Aphex Twin, ho is an arrogant bastars himself =)

 

However.. IDM can be really nice... or really disturbing. Its boundaries are quite loose.

[Deepdrone]

I'm new to this 'scene' (I hate this denomination). And I love it and I wanna know what others have to share about their perceptions.

 

In my opinion House/Techno DJs perform way better than psytrance pros.

I believe psy-DJs create more volatile energy on the dance floor while house-music keeps the mood going at a very sound level.

 

You watch Sasha and Digweed versus the top 'on the spot light' psychedelic names. Then you compare Mau-Mau and Mr. Cox with Growling Mad Scientists, Infected Mushroom or Astrix.. Carl Cox mixes 3-4 songs within ONE 'track' for the crowd. 5-Minute-long multi-song-mixes, switching from one to another and the crowd is listening to 'one amazing' track when there's actually a lot going on behind the decks. Astrix explodes the dance floors with one of his hits.

Other e-music styles use bold and solid componenents throughout a track while psytrance abuses hysteria and mood-eruptions. Felix Da Housecat exploded Club Privilege, in Búzios - Rio, with a paced and deeper sound. And in Rio we DO NOT have an 'experienced' e-music crowd. Mylo used his "Drop the pressure" consistent now-mainstream tune to take ladies' breaths away at Skol Beats in São Paulo. Serge used his solid no-synth-remix of Alter Ego's Rocker to involve thousands of people @ the same SP's Skol Beats. Chris Liebing followed him with commenced energy on the groovy-floor.

 

I've never seen such thing through Psytrance (I'm a newbie listener... started in Aug last year). I have this feeling that Psytrance projects only achieve the same effects on the crowds with hit songs, not with great ability to mix hours of research, knowledge, incredible productions, great equipment features, feeling and experience. The only time I saw a psytrance DJ keep the crowd anxious for the next beat of a song was while listening to Astrix's medley of 4 different songs (GMS, Infected and 2 of his own productions), but that too sounded pre-made.

 

A house-crowd seems to be more picky than the young psy-lovers. And that you can see through the artists. Psytrance abuses of highs, climaxes, turn arounds and I've never seen a psytrance DJ play an entire set without breaking the dance-mood at least once. It's hard to blend different psy artists to form a homogeneous set, whilst you ONLY see this with house music's greatests.

 

At the psy parties and festivals I've been to in Brazil and at the Sonica festival in Italy this August I noticed that the crowd usually gets fired up when they listen to HITS. Songs that should pump the crowd up no matter what time, where or by whom they're played. The psytrance sets I've listened to often serve as 'background music' for people to have a chat on the dance floor or as burning-house chaos with loads of people going absolutely insane.

 

At house events I've been to it is all different.. The crowd never goes so crazy, movements are measured, more sensual and anxiety is often in the eyes of the dancers waiting for a minute for this same note to be repeated and then releasing a minimal change that - YES! - will free them to let their body loose, raise their arms, smile and shout elegantly.

 

I'd compare house music with champagne in Paris and psytrance to cold beer at a football match. Each one has its majesty - kings or crowd pleasing strikes, lovers - elegant royalty or hippies. Psytrance relates to nature and bare feet. The other relates to tradition and control.

 

Nose up or down, what is your perception of different styles of electronic music?

PS: I hope I wasn't too boring or anything.

PS2: I prefer to go insane with psytrance and to chill in the air conditioner with quality House. With a beer, of course.

336289[/snapback]

Quality House can be SO captivating and divine that it blows away..

[Bahamut]

I've been checking out more (old and recent) goatrance/psytrance/psyambient lately and I'm sorry to say that I have come to the conclusion that as a whole, psy is not much better than the rest. Even recommendations I got from respected members I found really disappointing.

Let's face it, 4x4 electronic dance styles basicly suck by default and only a small % of it, the absolute best of the best, is really good and worthy of repeated listenings. Maybe psy has a slightly higher % of good stuff.

But the more I listen to it, the more I realize it doesn't really rise above the rest like I felt at first. Oh well I guess I'm simply very selective.

[snowball]

sometimes mixing goa,actually kills the song.

 

the trend is that "the music never stops" so that means that the beat must go on right?

 

but what about the intros and outros of the songs? arent they a critical part of the music?

 

if i mix with this thought lets say 50 tracks for a night,all goa,that would mean that i would have to cut off 49 intros and 49 outros.

 

thats a lot of music wasted!!!

 

so far i have only mixed for house parties where the people are not some beat hungry full of energy clubbers (not house music,but parties IN houses lol) and i just let the songs start and finish by themselves ,i dont rush things...

 

this way of "mixing" may feel a bit "amateur" at first but i believe that the tracks can only show their true meaning if we let them be!

 

i havent played for big parties yet,(i have one coming up in a few months ) so i dont know if this technique would do well with a big and crazy crowd ... what do you think? will they throw tomatoes?

 

 

imagine all those mfg tracks,astral projection ,dimension 5 ,shakta, miranda etc with the divine intros and outros fast forwarded for beatmatching. a crime!!!

 

my 2 cents!

[snowball]

Hmmm arrogant name? Was it created by those full-of-shit music cults who like Portishead, never go out in the sun, wear dark clothes and sit in the corner of an empty room with a single lamp and an old fashioned boom box to listen to it?

 

IF they haven't slit their wrists after the first track, of course.

337563[/snapback]

hey Portishead is very good trip hop!!

[benf52]

i agree that the house scene has better djs overall...

but at the same time a lot of those tracks are so repetitive...

so they are much easier to mix... it's almost impossible to mix tracks together in full-on psy b/c

there is a lot of layering going on...

 

as far as psy being for just for going crazy on the dancefloor... u r talking about the commercial artists who now make music that's digestible by the greater amount of people... psytrance music of 7-8 years ago was different...

 

i guess it comes down to taste... cause even if a house djs mixes 4 trax in one, chances are i'll still get bored most of the time, cause i don't like to wait 24 bars to have a change...

[Lepton]

so far i have only mixed for house parties where the people are not some beat hungry full of energy clubbers (not house music,but parties IN houses lol) and i just let the songs start and finish by themselves ,i dont rush things...

 

this way of "mixing" may feel a bit "amateur" at first but i believe that the tracks can only show their true meaning if we let them be!

 

i havent played for big parties yet,(i have one coming up in a few months ) so i dont know if this technique would do well with a big and crazy crowd ... what do you think? will they throw tomatoes?

imagine all those mfg tracks,astral projection ,dimension 5 ,shakta, miranda etc with the divine intros and outros fast forwarded for beatmatching. a crime!!!  

 

my 2 cents!

574897[/snapback]

 

this won't keep me and most ppl dancing .... + it unterrupts the trance feeling imo ... most tracks have a break in the middle and that's more that enough if you also play the intro and outro then things become kinda boring since the energy is lost every 5 minutes imo....

[Ov3rdos3]

hey Portishead is very good trip hop!!

574906[/snapback]

Killer stuff indeed. I like Massive Attack almost as much as Portishead.

[Lepton]

I also think that other dj's (house dnb techno) won't be better in mixing psytrance if they would try .... you really cannot compare mixing psytrance and mixing techno .... if you think you can than you don't have a clue about mixing psy ....

 

I find it hard to believe that there are no equally talented dj 's in the psytrance scene as in the techno scene ....

[thebadtrip]

I'm super busy now, but reading this again, new posts added, I really want to write some stuff.

 

My musical taste has changed a lot, I started DJing (poorly for now) a more progressive house/electro sound and the quality of parties have changed around Rio/Brazil.

 

More to come later

[Charlie]

Techno, house, progressive, the're all side dishes compared to goa trance in my opinion.

[krelmatrix]

i agree that the house scene has better djs overall...

but at the same time a lot of those tracks are so repetitive...

so they are much easier to mix...

Keep in mind that there is a difference between using mixing as simply a tool to get from one track to the next, and mixing/layering multiple tracks together to make something cool & new. For the most basic beatmatching skill of going smoothly from one track to the next, it is definitely simple with house music since it is a very minimal beat-based structure. (it also takes a few hours to learn to do it with psytance) But to take it to the next level and really do something cool with the music in an original and artistic way....that's a whole different level of complexity and isn't easy to master at all.

 

Goa/psytrance, on the other hand, was always about using the songs to create a longer journey, with mixing taking the back seat. Unfortunately, that focus is really lost nowadays for the most part, and the most important musical skill in crafting a psytrance set is keeping the same level of high intensity throughout. There is little room to create a real journey between multiple tracks since almost every damn track is at a peak. The "journey", at best, is predictable and linear.

 

I think this is why a lot of DJs have "moved" to progressive styles over the years. Considering the extreme variance in progressive and the amount of variation you can get away with when actually playing for a dancefloor, proggy styles are really much more conducive for a DJ to create an interactive, dynamic musical story. I still enjoy playing psytrance, but I personally prefer progressive sets since I have a lot more musical freedom to really create something interesting (and danceable ).

 

I find it hard to believe that there are no equally talented dj 's in the psytrance scene as in the techno scene ....

 

Sure there are! Dimitri Nakov, Emok, Peter Digital, etc... But these guys are exceptions...and most of the really skilled DJs in this scene don't spin what most people would consider psytrance anyways. But you don't have to have any real technical skills to make it nowadays in the psy scene. Just good connections, a label backing you (or be an artist booked to play "live PA" computer DJ sets), and a moderate sense for the dancefloor. Or at least a CD case full of killerz that you can pull out one after another. You hardly ever see psytrance DJs advance beyond a very rudimentary skill level (how many are still depending on beat counters?!). And most of the remarkably skilled DJs in this scene (talking more than just clean beatmatching) mastered the art on other styles of music.

[Deepdrone]

Techno, house, progressive, the're all side dishes compared to goa trance in my opinion.

575133[/snapback]

Side dishes is what you write with a small letter, punk.

[Charlie]

Side dishes is what you write with a small letter, punk.

575382[/snapback]

Sorry, I forgot it's a direct contravention of psynews regulation to voice personal opinion.

[supergroover]

I also think that other dj's (house dnb techno) won't be better in mixing psytrance if they would try .... you really cannot compare mixing psytrance and mixing techno .... if you think you can than you don't have a clue about mixing psy ....

why cant you compare it?

 

krelmatrix said very nicely that there is a difference between mixing to create a continuum or to make something new.. Techno dj's do the latter most of the time imho and psytrance dj's do the first. You could say that that would make techno dj's better dj's. Which is most likely the case. But then again there is a difference in style. Psytrance is a finished story already most of the time while techno still has chapters to be filled. This leads to different ways of mixing. So it is not that necesarry for psytrance dj's to be overly skilled. It would surely be nice though not to see raja ram, goa gil etc trainwreck all their tracks..

[Telepatu]

How do you mix songs that are in different keys to each other with such an ease like when mixing techno/house songs that practically are keyless? How do you match melodies?

[thebadtrip]

How do you mix songs that are in different keys to each other with such an ease like when mixing techno/house songs that practically are keyless? How do you match melodies?

580640[/snapback]

 

Picking tracks that are alike somehow is part of a DJ's job.

If you pick tunes that have way different beats/percussion/melodies... then I'd say you might be doing the wrong thing.

 

It's all about building a set.. not just laying one track after another...

[Frontier Psychiatrist]

The problem with House is that it's much more boring than full-on, much cheesier and draws crowd (here atleast) that i prefer not to see.

Sure there are some wicked house producers there, but still i prefer endure train wrecking mixing skills than fat black divas in the break or 6 hour dj set that doesn't go anywhere (Digweed style)