Optimal headphone system made for Psy Trance

[Guest]

Wow! Im sure you have a great listening experience with that! You probably hear the music more accurately than alot of the producers making it. It's almost scary, maby you can hear me farting in the background or something on my tracks. Thats probably just a plus for psytrance though. 

364568[/snapback]

Yes, I hear everything in the recording even on low volume listening (60-65 dB). My system has surpassed the limit of Redbook CD, the only thing I hear is the magnetism that builds up in my CD player after a few minutes, that is easily removed with a Clean Sweep (PS Audio MultiWave II+) which takes 60 seconds.

 

There are no speakers that are even close to the detail and transparency of AKG K1000 earspeakers. You can rotate the speakers so they get further away from the ears for a more natural soundstage, the maximum is about 10 cm. But I have them adjusted so they are as close to my ears as possible without touching. This way I can use lower volume in my system so that it sounds even better.

[Guest]

And you sell these, right?!

364528[/snapback]

Never, I would rather cut off my legs than sell them!

[Guest]

And Astrals old production as a good example of a perfect production or mastering (even in the midrange)... hmmm sorry but no.  I could name way better examples but I dont like this "who's got the biggest......." 

364548[/snapback]

I never said it was perfect. It has the fastest and heaviest bass I have ever heard. It can't be heard on bad equipment, that's why it's so good!

[Guest Kris]

There are no speakers that are even close to the detail and transparency of AKG K1000 earspeakers.

365104[/snapback]

 

You just have one big problem with your studio theory.

 

To mix and master your music in headphones will cause it to sound very wrong on speakers and indeed normal systems. As I said I have never in my 25+ years making music seen it work.

[Guest]

So 22.000 dollar headphones, will make me LISTEN better or PRODUCE better? No thanks, I prefer my Monitors as a reference.

AKG K1000 are $800 and will be discontinued soon.

[Guest]

You just have one big problem with your studio theory.

 

To mix and master your music in headphones will cause it to sound very wrong on speakers and indeed normal systems.  As I said I have never in my 25+ years making music seen it work.

365111[/snapback]

I am talking only about the quality of the sound.

[psychonaut]

well the K1000 are nice headphones ... but no headphones can match good studio monitors.

 

i use JBL LSR 6325 P

 

my 400 Watt RMS JBL subwoofer i want to upgrade to a Velodyne HGS-X15

 

my source is E-MU 1212M sound card, and i use HOSA for cables.

[Guest Kris]

I am talking only about the quality of the sound.

365113[/snapback]

 

Quality of the sound? Now you lost me even more. The sound quality in a production can be obtained just as well or even better with some real good monitors. And the bonus is that what you hear is what you get. That's not the case with headphones no matter the price.

[psychonaut]

Quality of the sound?  Now you lost me even more. The sound quality in a production can be obtained just as well or even better with some real good monitors. And the bonus is that what you hear is what you get. That's not the case with headphones no matter the price.

365120[/snapback]

thank you !

 

there are no perfect headphones. even the best ones like Sennhesier Orpheus, Stax Omega 2 and AKG K1000 take second place to good studio monitors like ATC.

[Guest]

patrik, would you recommend a pair of in-ear phones for the mid-budgeted psy listner?

 

also, after .wav, what is your choice audio compression?

very high-end setup, where do you live, can i have a listen!!!??

364525[/snapback]

Etymotic are the only ones that are good.

 

I don't recommend anything else than FLAC or another lossless format. However, mp3 works fine if your source is a soundcard and you have some cheap headphones. I believe 192-320 kbps mp3 would work best with Etymotic ear phones.

 

I don't let anyone else listen to my system. You could try a live classical concert instead. Just imagine my system is little worse and there you go.

[Guest]

thank you !

 

there are no perfect headphones.  even the best ones like Sennhesier Orpheus, Stax Omega 2 and AKG K1000 take second place to good studio monitors like ATC.

365124[/snapback]

Sennheiser HE-90 (Orpheus) are crap compared to K1000. Only beginners buy it and think the Orpheus is good, but it's not!

 

Have you actually compared K1000 to $200 000 speakers in the same system?

[psychonaut]

Sennheiser HE-90 (Orpheus) are crap compared to K1000. Only beginners buy it and think the Orpheus is good, but it's not!

 

Have you actually compared K1000 to $200 000 speakers in the same system?

365131[/snapback]

the fact of the matter is, music is produced and mastered on monitors, not headphones .. therefore the only right way to play it back is also on monitors.

 

besides, i hear some people are using a subwoofer with K1000s ... so what is the point, if you gona wake the neighbors anyway ?

[Guest]

Quality of the sound?  Now you lost me even more. The sound quality in a production can be obtained just as well or even better with some real good monitors. And the bonus is that what you hear is what you get. That's not the case with headphones no matter the price.

365120[/snapback]

The quality of sound is detail, speed, transparency, bass, soundstage, vocals...

You can't hear the sound correctly if your speakers don't have enough speed, if they are not fast enough then sounds will blend together and it will sound slower. K1000 has very high resolution and is faster than 768 kHz recordings.

 

Do you mean quality of the music? Like the timing of sounds and accuracy in the soundstage?

[Guest]

well the K1000 are nice headphones ... but no headphones can match good studio monitors.

 

All headphones are total garbage because of the pads that reflect soundwaves. Headphones are not meant for music, speakers are meant for music. AKG K1000 are speakers but they are just closer to the ears. As someone else said "I was never in a live concert until I heard K1000". When I put them on my head it feels like I am INSIDE the recording instead of listening to the recording!

[psychonaut]

is there any word on why they are being discontinued ?

[Guest]

This topic should be moved to music making section

364529[/snapback]

I don't make music, I only listen to the music.

 

I have good ideas for music (music that makes sense) but it's too much work because I want it to be perfect, and I would never sell my music anyway, everything should be for free!

[Guest]

Somehow you underestimate how good K1000 are. They are not headphones, they are studio monitors closer to the ears which make it sound better. The only weakness is a sacrifice in soundstage. The biggest I have heard is 50+ meters to the left (track 2 of 'Enigma - The Cross Of Changes'), 20-40 meters rear (track 3 of 'King Arthur soundtrack' and track 3 of 'The Very Best Of Era'), and 200+ meters deep (track 9 of 'Enigma - Le Roi Est Mort, Vive Le Roi!'). It depends on the quality of the rest of the system to show that echo correctly. K1000 makes the soundstage about 1/3rd of the real size, as long as you mentally adjust it is okay for mastering.

For up and down soundstage the maximum I have heard is only 1 meter. Like in track 9 of 'Astral Projection - Another World', both sounds fly up from the floor (in a circular fashion from the left) behind you to where you sit on both sides of your body, and they stay there hovering for 1 second and slightly fall down a few cm. There are subtle sounds that keep hovering up and down all the time which I have never heard until my last power cord upgrade, this album is very complex! In track 2 of 'The Lord Of The Rings - The Fellowship Of The Ring' the drum is located on the floor 1 meter down, 1 meter to the left and 50 cm to the rear.

 

 

In classical recordings I can not only hear the sound bounche off the walls, I can accurately follow where it goes and hear how the sound transforms! It almost feels like I am part of the sound.

 

In reference classical recordings the trumpets are only 3 meters to my left, trombone is 1 meter to my right and 1 meter up. Chorus is 1-2 meters behind me. Drums are at different depth and height (down, up, rear, centre). Because the sounds are closer to me it is easier to hear them correctly, however, it doesn't sound as realistic as with speakers that are positioned further away in the room. For loudspeakers you need $10 000 worth of padding in the room to solve the problem with reflection of sound waves, with K1000 you don't have that problem at all!

 

 

Here is the description on AKG's site:

 

Model:

K 1000 Reference Listening System

 

Description:

The K 1000 isn’t a headphone—it is a personal set of reference-quality monitor speakers that deliver an unforgettable listening experience. The K 1000 positions its handmade AKG transducers in front of your ears comfortably and creates a huge 3-dimensional stereo image. Perfect for either audiophile use or as a studio reference standard, the K 1000 has had universal acclaim as the finest device available for hearing every nuance of your music.

 

Specs:

Type: Dynamic transducer w/ VLD magnet Frequency Response: 30–25,000 Hz Sensitivity: 74 dB/mW (free field) Impedance: 120 O Weight: 270 g (9.5 oz.)

[Guest]

is there any word on why they are being discontinued ?

365143[/snapback]

 

From a Head-Fi thread.

On another matter: The K1000’s are slated to be discontinued sometime next year (old news). The one thing that I was reminded of was that the K1000’s have been discontinued three times before. They will most likely continue to make them as long as the demand exists.

 

I read somewhere that they were discontinuing them because the cost of materials was getting too high. I hope you're right, though. Any idea how many of em are out there?

From what was said in the conversation I got the impression that production has already stopped, and that they have 3 to 6 months supply in the warehouse. This was not said, it was my impression.

It's really too bad they're not making the k1000 anymore, even though they weren't really my cup of tea they are destined to remain many people's "end-of-the-road" headphone, I predict as their scarcity increases their prices will eventually become outrageous.

[Guest]

I have the K501s (Chaintech Av-710 96khz Upsample -> Headsave Classic sorry I don't have as big of an e-penis as you) and I'd have to rate them close to the K1000's but that's just personal taste. The K1000 have low bass and treble rolloff.

 

I'd say senn 650s would be great for psytrance listening deep, deep bass. The beyer 770's may be good too.

 

 

Personally I have much more fun listening through my speakers because I don't care how they sound, they're loud, bassy, and most importantly fun. Psytrance isn't something that should be so critically listened to IMO.

[Guest]

I have the K501s (Chaintech Av-710 96khz Upsample -> Headsave Classic sorry I don't have as big of an e-penis as you) and I'd have to rate them close to the K1000's but that's just personal taste.  The K1000 have low bass and treble rolloff.

 

I'd say senn 650s would be great for psytrance listening deep, deep bass.  The beyer 770's may be good too.

Personally I have much more fun listening through my speakers because I don't care how they sound, they're loud, bassy, and most importantly fun.  Psytrance isn't something that should be so critically listened to IMO.

367921[/snapback]

K1000 has treble rolloff? Where did you hear that? It should go up to 25 kHz but humans can't hear over 20 kHz anyway.

Bass only goes down to 50 Hz compared to 30-40 Hz with normal headphones. But most music doesn't go this low anyway.

 

Sennheiser has very muddy bass compared to the controlled bass of AKG, that's why Sennheisers sound bassier. However, HD650 can be paired with any component and it will sound good. That's because those cans are so forgiving and muddy. If I plug my HD590 into any source they will sound good. If I connect my K1000 to something it will show the weakness of the gear immediately and it will sound horrible!

Psy Trance is all about fast controlled bass and speed, the rest of the music isn't high quality. That's why Sennheisers are the worst for this kind of music.

 

And what's with this e-penis thing? It doesn't matter at all, I'm just a random guy. I posted this system so others can enjoy it before K1000 gets discontinued. Everyone should have it! Unfortunately I don't have enough money to buy this system for everyone, I sold everything I owned to afford it, and I would do it again.

 

A year ago I was using Sennheiser HD590 + Audigy2 soundcard and I thought it sounded good. I had kept that "system" for 2 years until I decided to upgrade, I was very ignorant and skeptic that an amplifier would improve the sound.

Once you hear how much better music sounds you won't stop upgrading, trust me. Like everyone at Head-Fi recommends; it's better to get the best right away.

You will save a lot of money when you know how to get synergy with K1000 instead of experimenting and losing thousands in the process... That's what forums are for, to share knowledge. I just wish someone else had told me so I didn't make all those mistakes, now I tell others. Not sharing knowledge is evil!!

[phobium]

This topic should be moved to music making section

364529[/snapback]

I vote for the offtopic section. There's a lot of non-sense going on here. "More money = better sound" for instance. Often, when you buy something really expensive you pay for design and brand name, not sound. It's always fun to see smegheads buy cables for their speakers that cost 150€ pr. meter....

[Guest]

AKG K1000 are probably sweet. a sixth of what I paid for my Sennheiser HD600 though so they are way out of my budget as well. anyho, I'll have my Rega Ear (headphone amp) soon, that will be a kick ass system

[Guest]

"More money = better sound" for instance. Often, when you buy something really expensive you pay for design and brand name, not sound.

PS Audio makes the best products for the price, there is no fancy design like with most tube amp manufacturers.

For PS Audio "more money = MUCH better sound".

 

Paying extra for design is just stupid, that's not what audio is about.

 

As for brand name, yes you pay twice as much for Nordost cables, but it's worth it! Building those cables by yourself would take a lot of time and hard work, they are not just some simple silver wires in a teflon tube! For PS Audio xStream Statement Power Cables it would cost you much more to build those yourself if you don't have the tools and machinery.

 

It's always fun to see smegheads buy cables for their speakers that cost 150€ pr. meter.... 

367995[/snapback]

It's not funny, they are just ignorant that higher costing cables will sound much better. I was one of them! I was only using a $150 interconnect, but after I tried a 50cm $2700 Nordost Valhalla interconnect for my EMU0404 soundcard I was definitely not a skeptic anymore. I could not believe I heard a difference with a crap soundcard!

[Icarus]

Id rather have a pair of extreme quality studio monitors than this set lol.. Then id hear exactly what the artist/mastering engineer wanted me to hear.

[Guest]

Id rather have a pair of extreme quality studio monitors than this set lol.. Then id hear exactly what the artist/mastering engineer wanted me to hear.

368018[/snapback]

You have a lot to learn!

 

It's not the speakers that are important, it's the rest of the equipment. Why use $200 000 studio monitors when you can pay only $800?

Power conditioning is the most important thing in audio, better speakers will not solve that problem, and obviously it will not solve a bad source either; "Crap in crap out". Only newbies think that it's all about the speakers or headphones, someone at Head-Fi wanted to buy Sennheiser HE-90 and use it with his soundcard.

 

First the rest of the gear, then the speakers! K1000 shows the limit of Redbook CD, why get anything better if it won't sound any better?