Low/High Frequencie Perception..how far can we go?

[Stalker]

Ok

So i was listening to some track from NASA, and i got the feeling that after its middle break, the music somehow gets "fatter". Even thou there was no changing of notes, there was just some percussion layers added.

 

Now, based on that, i wanna ask a few things

 

1- Does the low/high frequencies, produced by the whole song. Is it manipulatted by the producer so it can fill the human ear perception perfectilly? Does the low frequencies has to be stabilish like a box that had to be completed filled so it could be "pleasant"?

 

Ok, now you might think that this is a producer thread... but i am just asking as a listener perspective( obvioulsy, professional comments are welcome), how the song feels to you as a whole. I myself for example has a very sensible ears for high frequencies and i tend to dislike then. If the song reachs an excessive high tone, i probably will dislike

 

 

2- Does a sound, and i mean any sound in its original form contains a static ammount of frequencies? Or it could be changed if this sound is added to another one?

Again, as a listener position, i sometimes feel that the adding of percussion elements ( like bongo and Toms) changes the frequencie of the song, as i mean changes its vibration, or its just "add" its frequencie above the whole song, with out actually changing it?

If so does that means that the song frequencies could be mathematic arranged and the creator has total control on what he wants?

 

Note that adding is not equal change here, what i wanna mean is transforming...

 

3- How far can the human ear perception goes for low/high frequencies? Does someones taste could be formed by a sub-counscious familiarity of the ammounts of frequencie in a song?

 

This goes by prefering for example, a fat clean sounds besides rispy distorted one...Like me for example

 

Ok people

Now lets discuss about sound perception

 

 

obs:

 

please tekk, dont move to the music making section

[Stalker]

Ok again

I am a little bit stoned and its late night here in Brazil

So i might had said some gibberish, but i would like to hear a few words about the subject...

[Guest]

it's an interesting subject, but I'm not really sure what you are asking. what is "static ammount of frequencies" for instance? frequencies are waves, and not static...maybe you mean a 'static volume'?

 

I'm not sure here, but what you are asking could have something to do with the amplifiers ability to handle different amount of dynamic sounds. and room acoustics.

[Time_Trap]

each has a different perception of sound, as each person has a different perception of colors, or to generalise, a different pecription of reality...

 

now, it's true that when other sounds are added the frequency of the rest of the sounds is also affected, as some frequencies cross-check and such...

[Stalker]

it's an interesting subject, but I'm not really sure what you are asking. what is "static ammount of frequencies" for instance? frequencies are waves, and not static...maybe you mean a 'static volume'?

 

I'm not sure here, but what you are asking could have something to do with the amplifiers ability to handle different amount of dynamic sounds. and room acoustics.

379341[/snapback]

Hey thanks for the reply

Yes, I mean like an static volume. Or something like a static form of a wave

 

 

 

each has a different perception of sound, as each person has a different perception of colors, or to generalise, a different pecription of reality...

 

now, it's true that when other sounds are added the frequency of the rest of the sounds is also affected, as some frequencies cross-check and such...

379357[/snapback]

If every person has a diferent sound perception. then those known rules of pleasant ammount of frequencies for the human ear are incorrect?

 

I dont think that the perception varies much from person to person... i think what varies is the Interpretation of the sounds that goes diferent for each person...

 

Or maybe i am wrong

[Time_Trap]

then those known rules of pleasant ammount of frequencies for the human ear are incorrect?

 

I dont think that the perception varies much from person to person... i think what varies is the Interpretation of the sounds that goes diferent for each person...

 

Or maybe i am wrong

379657[/snapback]

 

well,yes there are some frequencies that especially when played loud arent that pleasant...

as for the secont part, perception of sound and interpretation of sound are pretty much the same i think, no?

[Stalker]

as for the secont part, perception of sound and interpretation of sound are pretty much the same i think, no?

380107[/snapback]

 

They could means pretty much the same, but not in my topic

 

What i mean is:

 

Perception- Something like an ability to captures sounds. For ex, the perception of sounds in dogs are much more accured that in humans

 

Interpretation- Pretty much how the sounds... well, sounds for you.

The way you "read" it. Ex- an dog has a more accurate perception of sounds, but cannot interpreted it as music or a melodie. the dog can perceive with much more clarity a sound of a wind then me, but could not interpreteted as a melody

[Cybernetika]

Very interesting topic you have chosen there...

 

1. Yes, thinking of the frequency spectrum as a box is very popular. A track with a wide range of frequencies (at a balanced level) simply feels "fuller". Becauses it uses most of our acoustic perception range, it keeps.. so to speak.. the majority of our ears "busy". I dont know why exactly most listeners respond positively to a full frequency spectrum, but I think our ears (when speaking of "our ears", I am referring to the auditory canal, the eardrum, and the brain of course) want to perceive all the frequencies from music which they usually perceive from a natural environment (or from an environment they feel comfortable in).

Maybe our ears are conditioned by the environment in terms of their "likes and dislikes" ... for example, a city inhabitant exposed to a lot of traffic etc. noise will rather enjoy "louder" music with harsher high and low frequencies. People living in the forest in relative silence will rather enjoy "warmer" music with a lot of mid-range, but they will dislike the harsh frequencies.

You could also put this theory vice versa, a person exposed to much noise could also seek "refuge" in warmer, more organic sounding music.

It's just a theory how I explain this to myself... feel free to tear it apart

 

2. From a producer's perspective: no, you can't really "transform" the sound in terms of frequencies just by adding more elements. The old frequencies are still there. They are then stacked with the new sounds. Adding to sounds to each other does not make a division, but an addition, if you know what I mean. Anyway, all of the frequencies are still there, but of course, if one sound's frequency is overwhelming the frequency of the other, our ears and sometimes the hardware itself will play a trick on us: one sound is almost pushed away by the other, although it is still present. Imagine a bird singing in the distance. In total silence otherwise, you will be able to hear the bird clearly, even if it is far away and pretty silent (in terms of dB). Now a train is driving by right next to you, causing an extremely loud sound, completely overwhelming the bird's singing which you can't hear as long as the train is driving by.

Anyway, this is the problem of the clash of frequencies which the producer has to be aware of. He has to balance the single elements so that they dont "clip" other frequencies. Sometimes the clipping is intentional, because the tune feels fuller and more like a unity of sound.

 

3. See #1

I also think that a certain atmosphere you like influences the frequencies you want to hear. If you like your music "cold and raw", harsher upper frequencies will become important, and at the same time the bass (which provides warmth) will be disliked. Vice versa for music with a "warm and natural" sound, they need more bass with less high frequencies.

[Guest]

hey stalker, I might have got a hang of what you mean .... (but don't expect it )

 

say, if you have a very simpel and clean synthesizer sound.... and you listen in headphones.... it sounds very unnatural because there's no ambience....and when you add acoustic percussion sound... which has a resonance (and most likely some natural ambience recorded)... you percieve that whole song (or the image in your head actually) as much deeper, wider, etc....

 

and when you go back to a simple synth sound, the image is very flat and boring.

 

but then, I'm also a sucker for resonances in acoustic instruments

 

am I on to it?

[Stalker]

Very interesting topic you have chosen there...

 

1. Yes, thinking of the frequency spectrum as a box is very popular. A track with a wide range of frequencies (at a balanced level) simply feels "fuller". Becauses it uses most of our acoustic perception range, it keeps.. so to speak.. the majority of our ears "busy". I dont know why exactly most listeners respond positively to a full frequency spectrum, but I think our ears (when speaking of "our ears", I am referring to the auditory canal, the eardrum, and the brain of course) want to perceive all the frequencies from music which they usually perceive from a natural environment (or from an environment they feel comfortable in).

Maybe our ears are conditioned by the environment in terms of their "likes and dislikes" ... for example, a city inhabitant exposed to a lot of traffic etc. noise will rather enjoy "louder" music with harsher high and low frequencies. People living in the forest in relative silence will rather enjoy "warmer" music with a lot of mid-range, but they will dislike the harsh frequencies.

You could also put this theory vice versa, a person exposed to much noise could also seek "refuge" in warmer, more organic sounding music.

It's just a theory how I explain this to myself... feel free to tear it apart

 

2. From a producer's perspective: no, you can't really "transform" the sound in terms of frequencies just by adding more elements. The old frequencies are still there. They are then stacked with the new sounds. Adding to sounds to each other does not make a division, but an addition, if you know what I mean. Anyway, all of the frequencies are still there, but of course, if one sound's frequency is overwhelming the frequency of the other, our ears and sometimes the hardware itself will play a trick on us: one sound is almost pushed away by the other, although it is still present. Imagine a bird singing in the distance. In total silence otherwise, you will be able to hear the bird clearly, even if it is far away and pretty silent (in terms of dB). Now a train is driving by right next to you, causing an extremely loud sound, completely overwhelming the bird's singing which you can't hear as long as the train is driving by.

Anyway, this is the problem of the clash of frequencies which the producer has to be aware of. He has to balance the single elements so that they dont "clip" other frequencies. Sometimes the clipping is intentional, because the tune feels fuller and more like a unity of sound.

 

3. See #1

I also think that a certain atmosphere you like influences the frequencies you want to hear. If you like your music "cold and raw", harsher upper frequencies will become important, and at the same time the bass (which provides warmth) will be disliked. Vice versa for music with a "warm and natural" sound, they need more bass with less high frequencies.

380459[/snapback]

Killargh Post

Thanx Cybernetyka

It really clearead up a lot of things for me

 

And i agree witth your "therory" of how ppl react to the frequencies that they are used, and the choice of their musical preferences being based on that

 

 

 

hey stalker, I might have got a hang of what you mean .... (but don't expect it  )

 

say, if you have a very simpel and clean synthesizer sound.... and you listen in headphones.... it sounds very unnatural because there's no ambience....and when you add acoustic percussion sound... which has a resonance (and most likely some natural ambience recorded)... you percieve that whole song (or the image in your head actually) as much deeper, wider, etc....

 

and when you go back to a simple synth sound, the image is very flat and boring.

 

but then, I'm also a sucker for resonances in acoustic instruments 

 

am I on to it? 

380745[/snapback]

Hey, i am sucker for resonances in acoustic isntruments too

But at least we try

 

And yes, that is excatly what i meant. And what was exectaly the feeling i had when i was listening to that NASA tune. Not that it was flat and boring , but it got much more wider and deeper

[Stalker]

I thought that we would have more studio freaks in here

Tekk? Spindrift? Colin? Anyone?

[Stalker]

Ok

So

how about some links?

[Stalker]

Ok

so

How about some phone numbers?

 

Really guys, i am desperate for knowing this stuff

[Guest djnemo]

please tekk, dont move to the music making section

379075[/snapback]

Of course I wont Gave me a couple of ideas though. I will reply to this thread later, as I am very busy at the moment, and will not be able to get deep on the subject. Intressting thread though

[Amygdala]

1- Does the low/high frequencies, produced by the whole song. Is it manipulatted by the producer so it can fill the human ear perception perfectilly?  Does the low frequencies has to be stabilish like a box that had to be completed filled so it could be "pleasant"?

 

Any electronic producer will try to fill out the spectrum of frequency as much as possible - it just sounds better and richer - and louder... This is in essence what mastering is about. It's done in the entire spectrum of audible frequencies (humans can hear from about 20 Hz to 20 kHz).

2- Does a sound, and i mean any sound in its original form contains a static ammount of frequencies? Or it could be changed if this sound is added to another one?

 

A sound is rarely "static" - some sounds (unprocessed synthesizer tones, that doesn't change pitch) are static, but they get extremely irritating *very* fast. An example is a TV-testtone. It's one frequency only, and it's completely static in the frequency-spectrum.

I have to correct Cybernetika about one sound changing another - it is indeed possible. Usually they just add up, but the vibrations of the "new" sound can actually cancel some of the frequency-content of the "first" one - thereby sort of changing it. If the whole mix is going through a compressor (which it certainly is in mastering) then a lot of sound will influence the volume of other sound too.

If so does that means that the song frequencies could be mathematic arranged and the creator has total control on what he wants?[/b]

 

It does - in fact, some synthesizers are called "additive" - because the producer constructs a sound from scratch, specifying each and every frequency that should be apart of this particualr sound - with what volume, at what times, and so on... It's a drag programming those thingys!!

 

About "perception" and interpretation... I don't believe the specific environment has much influence on your music taste - the only part of the environment that does, is music itself. You find all kinds of people with all kinds of music-taste in all kinds of environments.

On the other hand, humans are born with a preference for certain sounds. Only a few days after birth, babies will prefer human speech over any other sound - they prefer their native language over foreign ones... And (cool!) they even distinguish their mothers' voice from other women's. It's probably not a coincidence, that so much music has song in it... Not just for the lyrics, but for the sound of the human voice itself...

 

- Bedtime for me!

 

-A

[Bahamut]

You're basicly talking about equalizing? The frequencies of one sound do not change by adding another sound...you will hear the combined frequencies of both. And because a sound covers a certain range in the frequency spectrum, the whole thing will sound "fuller" by adding other sounds with different frequencies. You can change the volume level of certain frequencies by equalizing.. and you can do this to individual sounds or an entire track. I guess....

 

edit: just read post from Amygdala

[qa2pir]

hey, interesting thread. of course ive got nothing to say that hasnt been said already so i will just bump it and say hello.