Guest kingdok Posted June 15, 2002 Share Posted June 15, 2002 Okay, it took some major scrimping, but I'm now the proud owner of some CDJ-1000s. I can finally mix my psytrance CDs! Some of my mixes turn out pretty smooth. Listen to this 2 minute recording I made of two Transwave tracks overlapping... http://www.autodestruct.com/Sounds/CDJ1000mixdemo.mp3 Not too shabby for a beginner, eh? But can I do this consistently over an 80 minute session? Not yet. The BPM counters come in handy for getting an incoming track roughly up-to-speed. ROUGHLY. I'm discovering there's a lot of range between, say, 144 BPM and 145 BPM. I have to listen REALLY hard and move the slider in teeny increments to get those kicks lined up just right...and even when I DO get it right, I still might not mix it in at an appropriate time. I guess the term is "phrasing...?" For instance, there might still be 2+ minutes left on the track I'm currently playing, and I nervously mix in the next track, thinking I may run out of beats to match if I don't act quick! What's a good rule of thumb for phrasing psy? Should I wait until things have died down a bit before introducing the next song? Also, the crossfader on my mixer tends to bring the incoming track in a little too noticably, even if I'm gentle with it. Do most psytrance DJs bother moving the crossfader back and forth, or do they prefer to keep it centered, raising and lowering the volume of channels 1 and 2 independantly? I've been getting pretty confident mixing breaks and jungle, which seem infinitely easier than mixing trance, or anything that's 4X4. Practice aside (which I'll be doing plenty of) what are some things that will help my trance mixing? Any advice would be helpful. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Järsimähäiriö Posted June 15, 2002 Share Posted June 15, 2002 Couldn't listen to your recording thanks to my computer that's all the time absolutely pants (Soulhunter I'm gonna need your consulting in near-future)... Anyway, I think you should try and not use the BPM-counters for beatmatching... People have mixed opinions on this issue but learning to match those beats with your ears only is more than likely to pay off later on. The thing to realize is that YOU DON'T NEED to know the BPM at all, knowing which tracks are in the same speed-category is good enough--->knowing your tracks is essential. Of course, if you feel better knowing the BPMs, be it counting them manually or checking from the (inaccurate, at best) BPM-counter on your mixer, then fine, do it. BUT, remember that at the end of the day, listening to the music is the only way to get two tracks exactly matched. You mentioned the difficulty of finding the right exact speed for the incoming track. What I tend to do in these situations is to listen to both tracks mixed inside my headphones. Once the beats start drifting I use the pitch-bend button to speed up (or slow down) the cued track, and once the beats are going hand-by-hand again, I adjust the pitch-slider accordingly. The trick here is to have an idea of which track is running slightly faster... but it doesn't really matter if you don't as for example if you speed up a track that's going faster already the kicks will go even more off-sync, and therefore tell you to slow it down. There are no rules about when to bring in the new track. If the playing track stays hectic until the very final seconds and you want to play it till the end, then do so and mix the ending of the track with the intro of your incoming track. When playing more minimal material, however, playing two (or more) tracks on top of each others for minutes often sounds very cool, as you can mix the elements of two tracks by combiníng the low frequencies of one track to the mid and high secions of another track. This is how techno is mixed, and it works well with psy, too. Once you are comfortable with your beatmatching start experimenting with the EQ on your mixer, and learn to use them as an extension to the channel-faders. I can say that I near-enough never touch the cross-fader, as using the channel-faders sounds so much smoother. Depends on the mixer, though, as well as individual preferences, but channel-faders really make the changes sound more seamless. Hmmm, so there you go... I don't know if these things are ridiculously obvious but if not, think about them when practising, especially the things about beatmatching as that's the alpha and omega of any mixing really. Also if you have further questions I'd be delighted to (try and) be of help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dr. Cheroot Posted June 16, 2002 Share Posted June 16, 2002 Hey, nice mix Kingdok, that didn't sound like a beginner's mix at all. I am a beginner too, just started playing around at home with CDJ-100s about 5-6 weeks ago. Never played at a party yet. Well, i guess Jarasimahairo covered some very significant points, especially about beatmatching by ear, and about there being no rules when to bring in the next track. My beatmatching and mixing routine looks something like this: 1. Play first track. 2. Choose a second track in the same bpm range (plus or minus 5-8 bpm), and definitely in the same mood (morning, full on, minimal etc) 3. Cue second track to the first beat in that track (most of the time, unless there's some valid reason for choosing another beat, which would usually be the start of another 8-beat count). 4. Start the second track at the cue point, at the same time as one of the beats on the first track (usually again the start of an 8-beat count, though not necessary while just beatmatching). 5. Listen to see which track is faster (and sometimes use the bpm counter to confirm, though never solely using the counter to "match" beats ). 6. Increase or decrease the speed of the second track, and then repeat step 4 and 5. Finally when i know that track 2 is at the exact same speed as track one, i just let the first track play till the last minute, which is when i start thinking about where to bring in the first track. Usually, besides the ambient intro and the outro, most psytrance tracks have plain regular beats for about 32-64 counts both at the start and ends of a track. This is, in my opinion, the best place to mix the tracks. And since changes in tracks happen usually in 8/16/32/64 beat counts, it's best to throw in the second track (cued at the start of an 8-beat count) at the start of an 8-beat count in the second track. I usually use channel faders, dunno why, i just liked it more than the cross faders (though if i find two tracks that overlap perfectly over a long period of time, then i sometimes mess around with them together using the crossfader). Sometimes you also have to watch out for volume discrepancies between two CDs, one may be recorded at a lower volume than the other, and this may not always be evident while you're listening through the headphones. I guess that's all for now. Hope it helped. Any tips from some more experienced DJs are welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kingdok Posted June 16, 2002 Share Posted June 16, 2002 I'm going to go out on a limb and include a link to a page where you can download my first-ever CDJ mix. http://www.autodestruct.com/djvariant.htm Tracklist : 1. Kluster "Balanced" [©Digital Psionics] 2. Mino "Contagious" [©Transonic Records] 3. X-Dream "Universal Chaos" [©D.Drum] 4. Front Line Assembly "Colombian Necktie" (GOArge Mix by Tim Schuldt) [©Metropolis Records] 5. Tim Schuldt "File Damage" [©Atomic Records] 6. Mr. Peculiar "1000 Tablets" [©Tribe-Adelic] 7. Logic Bomb "Neighbor of the Beast" [©TIP.World] 8. G.M.S. "No Rules" [©Solstice/Spirit Zone] 9. Space Cat "Hell-ium" [©BNE/YoYo] 10. Saiko-Pod "Sashitarian" [©Solstice] 11. Electric Universe "Activate" [©Spirit Zone] 12. DSP "Have a Good Time (All The Time)" [©Twisted Records] 13. Tycho "It's All Rock And Roll" [©TIP.World] 69min 55sec Your feedback, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kingdok Posted June 16, 2002 Share Posted June 16, 2002 I really choked on that last track, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UBS Posted June 16, 2002 Share Posted June 16, 2002 Nick tracklist-I havent listened to it but great to see some Tim in there plus some Mr peculiar!!!!!!! keep it up !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest APlusC Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 Sorry I didnt have time to download your mix, but Tycho - It's All Rock And Roll is one of my favorites! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KS Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 well this is how i do it... putting it in words would be very hard, so let me try with sounds/// k. i have my track playing, i choose a similar speed track.. now this has a lot of leeway, since most psy tracks are close enuff in the bpm range to mix without a problem, i rarely use 16% pitch control, but then again that is because i mix similar sounding tracks... the headphones are my personal monitor, so i will match the beats there first.. this is done by me as follows... at first i hear the trainwreck, so its like boom broombada badabroom room "in short", a mess.. so i mess around with the jog dial to get the beats closer together... then adjusting the pitch slide, i get my beats hitting together... then i mix.. with channel faders, sometimes a cross fader (more usually if i am mixing in vocals etc..) what is more important than the technique (this is really quite simple and finite)/// is knowing your tracks through practice... like i know if i mix in a certain track with another one, it would require me to kill the highs of one, the mids of the other etc.. in order to get a smooth mix..... so it is somewhat like mugging for a test, you have to know your material.... think about it, you wouldn't want your track that is playing to stop at a break, when you are trying to beatmix,,, in the end it is all about practice... and unlike some people i think that a good mix can be achieved even with cheap equipment... the cdjs are really cool, but even a simple drive with pitch adjuster can be used to make seamless mixes... in fact to learn on, i think one should start with a piece of junk like old gemini dual cd players from 98 and a basic 3 band eq mixer with kill switches... because once you have mastered those, cdjs are a piece of cake... btw... anyone else around here who does not bother beatmixing in outdoor parties in the morning?... i rarely mix beats if its in the mornings and people are kind of tired... i prefer letting them play out, so that the crowd has a break and the anticipation builds up to a fever pitch... while at the same time one can hear a totally blemish free set of music/... anyway that is my 1 rupee worth of advice/// Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guru sigma Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 what? tired people in a party? ;P those are good advices, i tried the cdj-20's myself and they work just fine. they're all anybody needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Avneesh Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 by the way..does anyone here have equipment to sell? I"m looking to start DJing..so like KS said it would be wise for me to start at the low range...besides i'm in school so i dont get too much money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dr. Cheroot Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 hey avneesh, try ebay. there's always good deals on there. be patient though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 about not beatmatching, with reallz oldschool songs i think it is better not to beatmacht because a lot of tracks have long intros and outros withouth beats that you can mix together. what do you think? np: fractal glider: witch doctor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ks Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 yup that is basically what i meant... as in mixing the outros and intros... like a track like bamboo forest - own way... it always works much better with the intro.. people more or less know that track, and the original 40 seconds of the track are really cool soothing melodious soundscapes... with that 40 sec break, the crowd is full of anticipation, and as a result i find a lot of people losing it on the dancefloor when the main beat kicks in... :-).. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bugbread Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 I've only ever DJed once, and I did exclusively intro/outro mixing. The regular DJs I played with that night were shitting twinkies (uh, "really worrying") when I told them that I wasn't going to beatmix that night (I guess they thought I was going to go boom broombada badabroom room), but it ended out working AWESOMELY, and everyone was quite in awe (er, that is, the people who DIDN'T know me thought "ok, yeah, that was a nice set...so?" and the people who knew me said "I didn't know it could sound so natural and good without beatmixing"). However, for minimal/nu-skool, that would be awful (few intros, etc.) So, that REALLY depends on the type of tracks you're mixing. Know your music (Not very good advice for a non-DJ, but at least I can relate as a newby) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sam i am Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 beatmatching is not necessary for good music just choose tracks that are interesting from start to finish there are plenty of them out there just my opinion all the best :-) Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest akira Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 Alright....this is just my opinion. Thing with psytrance is that you have to remember that it's essentially 'travelling' music. What you want is a nice smooth flow so as one song is finishing, or loosing energy, the next one is coming in and picking the listener up at the same time. Wether that is with beatmixing or just intro/outro mixing is very dependent on the songs you're playing at the time but the flow is VERY IMPORTANT. Good lcuk with it and don't forget us all when you're a famous dj! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest preus Posted June 19, 2002 Share Posted June 19, 2002 sorry i just got home from a little neat place, hehe.. i havnt read the above posts.. but a good tip is listend to beat and count it ! 1,2,3,4 1,2,3,4 1,2,3,4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dr-Zeuss Posted June 19, 2002 Share Posted June 19, 2002 303,909,303,909 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dr-Zeuss Posted June 19, 2002 Share Posted June 19, 2002 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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