PKS Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 Hello guys Back from the major Christmas things here... The three winners of the contest will receive their CD hopefully next week... Let me know when you guys receive it... The expenses with Quality Relaxation (Chill Tribe Records) was about: EUR 10000,- It has sold almost 700 copies so far (since June). This means I have received about: EUR 3750,- 10000-3750=6250,- There you see how much money my label has lost.... This compilation is distributed by one of the best distributors within our kind of music, which is Arabesque... Almost all the artists on the compilation are well known in the scene... The compilation has got almost ONLY good reviews. It is promoted quite a lot. Some even mentioned it was hyped..! So, please stop bullshitting about how much butter the labels get on their table these days..! I'm sick of hearing it! To Detox: I admire what you do and that you manage to have all those "expensive" artists on your compilations. You do it with psytrance like I do it with chill... None of us earn much (or anything) on it, but we do it for the love of music, and that we are tired of getting pure mediocre compilations all the time... I wanted to release something with quality, instead of a compilations with two ok tracks and the rest boring amateure easy listening... To Elysium: I payed you EUR 800,- for the tracks on Quality Relaxation, so at least some of us pay you more than EUR 200,-.... I also booked Elysium to Oslo, Norway, and I think he was well payed for that... So, there is still hope! Elysium and me are also planning an Elysium album on Chill Tribe... We will see.... I just hope you don't follow Detox idea of releasing it for free... We will see what happens with Chill Tribe Records in the future, but the way it is now, the artists have to realise that they can't take as much money as they used to before. Actually they could, but then I would have to put a lot of crappy, cheap tracks on the compilation to afford it... And that's not what I want. Then I will not do it... We have enough crappy chill compilation out there allready..! Ok, I hope some of you learned something from us who put in all this hard work and loose so much money on it. Running a label isn't that bright. But, all the nice feedback we get from you guys actually makes it worth it anyway... I also think that this chill compilation will not sound too old in ten years either, which shows quality... I think those artists who has tracks on this compilation also got good promotion by it, which can result in more releases and more gigs for them... I also know Elysium has been asked for a track by another chill label because of this. Same with the other artists on this compilation... Happy new years everybody! A new compilation on Chill Tribe is allready in the planning. Contracts is allready signed with Saafi Brothers.... Take care! PKS http://www.chilltriberecords.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 To Elysium: I payed you EUR 800,- for the tracks on Quality Relaxation, so at least some of us pay you more than EUR 200,-.... I also booked Elysium to Oslo, Norway, and I think he was well payed for that... So, there is still hope! Elysium and me are also planning an Elysium album on Chill Tribe... We will see.... I just hope you don't follow Detox idea of releasing it for free... 404630[/snapback] I know mate and that is also why I ealier wrote that there are a few exceptions where i got paid more. I was not at all thinking about you and also not about Chill Tribe Records when I made my example of labels that make quite good money out of exploiding artists and keep the real salesfigures from the artists. You are one of the good guys and we need more of your kind in the scene And do not worry. My release with you is still very much alive I was talking about my other release next year. But if the label I like to release it with fell up to release it then there's no problem and then I will not release it myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebadtrip Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 Great topic. Great discussion. Kris, how can I get one of your CDs? I wanna check it out. Sherlockalien's visiting Tash and perhaps he could bring me a copy - cheaper shipping to Spain. I'll pay somehow.. my brother lives in Ireland.. or paypal? I want to add my thoughts about digital media. Right now I would much rather go to a store and pay let's say 50-1.50 USD for a single track, loss less format (.wav or .flac) from the labels' websites than go to DC++ and try to find the track, the remix I want, etc... to download for free. I like the convenience of having the music on a good website I can find whenever I want. And I'd pay for that. Take Digital Structures (I think).. or was it Iboga? Selling music... but come on.. @ 1-2 EUR (USD?) for a 320kbps MP3. That's disrespectful. That's asking people to download it from somewhere for free. If the own labels can't provide quality music, they won't be able to get their sales up in my opinion. Because I look for good quality music and I am willing to pay for it! I'd rather have a 1.50 USD .wav than a free mp3 file. Discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 Kris, how can I get one of your CDs? I wanna check it out. Sherlockalien's visiting Tash and perhaps he could bring me a copy - cheaper shipping to Spain. I'll pay somehow.. my brother lives in Ireland.. or paypal? 404658[/snapback] Sadly I do not have any original copies left or I would have been more than happy to send you a copy. I do not even have some of my older releases myself I think the safest bet is to go to psyshop or saikosounds. I think they are still available there. Here's a few links: Elysium "Regenerated" Elysium "Celestial Sounds & Tribal Beats" But we are a bit off-topic now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Le Lotus Bleu Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 I know mate and that is also why I ealier wrote that there are a few exceptions where i got paid more. I was not at all thinking about you and also not about Chill Tribe Records when I made my example of labels that make quite good money out of exploiding artists and keep the real salesfigures from the artists. You are one of the good guys and we need more of your kind in the scene And do not worry. My release with you is still very much alive I was talking about my other release next year. But if the label I like to release it with fell up to release it then there's no problem and then I will not release it myself 404643[/snapback] ok so let's go forward you was referring to ... Avatar ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaft Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 Take Digital Structures (I think).. or was it Iboga? Selling music... but come on.. @ 1-2 EUR (USD?) for a 320kbps MP3. That's disrespectful. That's asking people to download it from somewhere for free. 404658[/snapback] Remember that downloading from a website does incur bandwidth costs. Say a website's traffic limit is 10GB/month - and you pay more for every 1GB you go over. The average psytrance song is roughly 8:00 in length - in MP3 terms you're looking at about 8MB at 128kbps. If you want to download it in WAV format that's 80MB. Say 1000 people download the track in WAV format, that's 80GB in bandwidth costs. This isn't to mention bandwidth costs when visiting the site! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 ok so let's go forward you was referring to ... Avatar ? 404756[/snapback] No not at all Avatar Not about payment and not about releasing my next CD. Avatar has always been correct when it come to paying their artists. I will make things more "official" when the time is right and i got more solid confirmation on the release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 Remember that downloading from a website does incur bandwidth costs. Say a website's traffic limit is 10GB/month - and you pay more for every 1GB you go over. The average psytrance song is roughly 8:00 in length - in MP3 terms you're looking at about 8MB at 128kbps. If you want to download it in WAV format that's 80MB. Say 1000 people download the track in WAV format, that's 80GB in bandwidth costs. This isn't to mention bandwidth costs when visiting the site! 404780[/snapback] It all depend. Take loopfreaks.com We got 100% free traffic and bandwidth and there's no problem at all with how many that download or visit. It's all about the provider and the deal you strike. many do give you totally free traffic and bandwidth today for fair prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaft Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 It all depend. Take loopfreaks.com We got 100% free traffic and bandwidth and there's no problem at all with how many that download or visit. It's all about the provider and the deal you strike. many do give you totally free traffic and bandwidth today for fair prices. 404799[/snapback] Oh nice I suppose that the label will have to support the website costs though, probably why the 'high' price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Journey Man Project Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 hmmm all this makes me start to think that by buying albums I have been ripped, in that I m supporting the label more than the artists... altho by supporting thelabel more music comes out, but the artists who is good might get sick of no money and decid not toe release any more good music... really viscious circle So tell me... for an album, what would an artits of Elyisum's calibure expect? $10us? I knwo simply because a friend of mine, this about another industry, runs a vineyard... now they had their best wine evaluated and it was valued at $200 Australian a bottle... bloody nice price, but becuase the market is right now flooded with good wine, they only sell for $40.00 australian a bottle... so the solution, in both industries, is simple to see but hard to put in to practice... we need more quality and less quantity... what Elysium said is very true, and I realised this after year 2000... so much of the music released today, in ALL genres (dark, full on, proggy even a fair bit of chill out) sounds like a template shared among friends and labels... it's like somebody who comes up with a great excel spreadsheet fo rhis company and gives it to all his mates in the same industry, then nobody makes any more money because they all have access to something good, but it has become way to generic... either this scene is soon going to implode and we will lose absolutely everything... or else it will die and from the ashes a number of years later it will start again with a dedicated few... II remeber when I first got into psytrance in 1995 at age 14-15 and the music wasmad, the parties were amazing an it realy was an alien and amazing experience, every producer and dj had smileson their faces, you go talk to them like they were your friend, share a smoke or have a good trip... now a days it is big festivals, big egos, artists hitting on young girls... I'm just a punter, I"m just a blok who has no idea to make music, djs for shit, and used to go to a few gigs... but now I cannot even be bothered going 20 minutes to a club for a gig becuase this scene sucks, I cannot imagine how a dedicated soul like Elyisum must feel... psytrance might not be dead yet, but I really see it is on it's last legs... tell me seriously, how many cd's, out of the hundredss released this year, are going to be classic all time cd's? I can name maybe 3 or 4 Max!! And that is about what we need... imagine there were only 30 cd's released in the whole scene this year... sure maybe no so muc opportunity to explore this scene, but for sure there would be much more passion and quality... ooh I could go on but end rant... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 If I do not have releases I wont get gigs... It's as simple as that... 404383[/snapback] As far as I'm concerned, this is the key to the whole mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETOX Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 PKS thanks for the kind words mate,no need to mention my respect towards you and your efforts to put up with a new label in the chill out world.Every person who is willing to put time,money and effort in the scene is welcome and i guess you are more than welcome Things are like just The Journey Man mentioned in his wine example.Exactly the same though in psy trance good music gets less sales (like a good wine is sold for a less price) not because there is too much good music around but on the contrary because there are too many shitty releases around.I mean we have 200 labels and only 20-30 of them really worth any mention at all.The rest are just flooding the market and are being run by wannabe djs,wannabe artists,wannabe promoters and wannabe superstars. Its not bad wanting to be a dj or a producer in your life,its preety nice actually and each one of us has a dream,BUT do things the right way,dont create a label so that you can dj under its name just because noone else is interested in your dj skills,dont create a label in order to release your own and your friends music just because no other label is interested in releasing this music,instead of spending your time and little money on a crappy label spend your time and put more effort in becoming better on what you really want to be.You want to be a DJ?Fine buy some equipement and some original music and practice at home,dont open a label just to gain more exposure.You wanna be a famous artist?Very nice so buy some equipment,go to a music school and built your own studio and work on your skills and ideas,sooner or later the labels will appreciate what you do and you will find your own way,you dont need a label in order to release your stuff immediately so that the people will get to know you,thats just not the right and proper way of doing things. A label and its manager must be focused on delivering good music to the people and promoting our small scene not to promote our friends and ourselfs so we become more famous and travel the world for free while playing our music to parties and have fun.Being a label manager and a dj or a producer at the same time is not bad BUT music is priority number one of a label manager and the rest come after. I am a label manager myself,i run a relatively new label with just 5 releases,its not easy but i try to do it,i spend a lot of money and effort on it but i really love what i do,i am into this because i like it not because i try to gain something from it,if i wanted fame or money i would never get involved with psy trance anyway.I am also getting booking offers for my self (funny but true) and i could also 'demand' from various people to play on their parties but i dont do that for the simple reason because i am not a dj (at least i dont consider myself to be one for the time being) and because i try to promote my artists through the label and not myself,thats the job of a label manager promoting the music and its artists,if someone runs a label for different reasons then he is in the wrong place in the wrong time and also hurts other people that try to do things correctly. So to sum it up,running a label properly is not easy but if anyone out there decides to do it then he should do it the right way for the common good.So next time you want to buy a cd except from the artist and the music please pay a little attention on what labels you support,who knows you might discover that some smaller labels with very good artists and tracklists care more for their customers and match more their needs than the big hot shot labels out there with massive promotion banners everywhere and huge super mega star artists in their rosters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 My exactly thoughts DETOX. What we see today is way too many people that never would get a gig if it was not for their title as "label" manager (i wonder if they know what it will say to manage anything). Sadly as you write many label managers also steal the gigs from their artists in their Quest to become a "star" themself and fail to promote their own artists. I agree that the no. 1 priority for a label manager is to promote the artists on the label so they can sell their music. I doubt a label manager sell any product stealing all the gigs to support his/her own "star" dreams. I am sure many label managers will protest. Those who protest are in my opinion the guilty ones And PKS I do not mean you.. You got nothing but my deepest respect mate and I know how damn hard you work to promote your artists and how dedicated you are to them and your genuine love for music And so do you DEOX It's nice to see a label manager that turn down offers to play as a DJ Respect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 dont create a label in order to release your own and your friends music just because no other label is interested in releasing this music,instead of spending your time and little money on a crappy label spend your time and put more effort in becoming better on what you really want to bewell id like to add something here, imo its not bad at all if someone, experienced and skilled opens his label to release his stuff. there might be many reasons why one would like to do that - other labels dont find his style "good" enough, and thats not a big surprise considering how commercial scene has become these days, artist just dont want to release his stuff elsewhere because of his beliefs - like for example he thinks that no label will apreciate his work that he did. imo thats ok if someone opens his own label just to release his own music because of music not money or fame, and as long as this music is HQ and creative, why not, maybe some day biggest part of artists will end up by releasing theyre own material each on his own label, net label where you can dload flac or ape, i dont mind, this would be not so bad at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amphiton Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Its not bad wanting to be a dj or a producer in your life,its preety nice actually and each one of us has a dream,BUT do things the right way,dont create a label so that you can dj under its name just because noone else is interested in your dj skills,dont create a label in order to release your own and your friends music just because no other label is interested in releasing this music,instead of spending your time and little money on a crappy label spend your time and put more effort in becoming better on what you really want to be. 404823[/snapback] Can't agree, sorry. What's bad in opening a label and releasing music? I love that music... I'd be the happiest man on this planet if there are 2 more people that feel and understand that music the same way as I do. Even if You find it be pure shit. I think that the problem here is the audience, if they can't see what's shit and what's candy - that's their problem and you can do nothing about it. The whole crisis could be solved by involving more people in the scene, people that are able to buy and actually will. Also selling digital media through the internet could help alot. PS You guys are saying 'bad labels', 'shitty artists'... any names? There are plenty... but that's based on my taste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 true, you cant say to anyone " dont open a label... try to get better and you'll get signed"... nah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krell Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 true, you cant say to anyone " dont open a label... try to get better and you'll get signed"... nah. 406103[/snapback] I agree with you. Some of the best and most legendary labels were created so that the label owners themselves could release their own and their friends music because noone else would.. Nothing wrong with it... its their money & time, they can do what they want with it. People should stop whining and just face the competition, if they are so good compared to the others they should be able to destroy them like good business men do to each other. Besides, I think all label owners & personnel will talk badly about any label releasing music they dont like. I dont think there is a good argument to be made there. I personally think, the days were people buy music blindly are over. There are prelisten clips and they are more than enough to discard with shitty music. So, what sells sells - and whats mainstream will always sell the most copies. Of course, you can try and do something original, but keep in mind perhaps only 1 out of every 20 attempts at getting something original to succeed actually work out well - So, dont come whinning when the world doesnt support originality... its the price of art, and it should be calculated into the businessplan ;-) Best Wishes Krell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 (edited) I agree with you. Some of the best and most legendary labels were created so that the label owners themselves could release their own and their friends music because noone else would.. I think you and a few other above your post misunderstood DETOX's point a little. He was not talking about that it's totally wrong that people open up their own labels to release their own or friends music, even though it's not always done very profesional or with quality in mind. He meant that too many open up a label for the wrong reasons and I agree 100% I also agree that maybe some "artists" should slow down a little and actually improve their skills and not expect to become the next "star" one month after they started to make music for the first time in their life. And I did not see him whine about anything. What he also meant, and what I also agree with, is that it's wrong to open up a label and signing artists and promise to get them bookings just so the label manager can get gigs him/herself as a DJ and become "famous" on the account of the artists names and music. I have seen it happen quite a few times. Even at big established labels. I have also experienced first hand that label managers stole gigs from the artists and told the organisers that the artists in question were not available so the label managers themself could get the gigs instead. Of course after offering themself as a substitute to the organsiers. And in my opinion it's not the labels managers job to get him/herself gigs and become a "hot shot" DJ with the latest unreleased tracks. The job is to sell the artists music and get them exposed as much as possible and if agreed on, also to get them bookings. Anyways.. Happy New Year Edited December 31, 2005 by Elysium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krell Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 I think you and a few other above your post misunderstood DETOX's point a little. He was not talking about that it's totally wrong that people open up their own labels to release their own or friends music, even though it's not always done very profesional or with quality in mind. He meant that too many open up a label for the wrong reasons and I agree 100% I also agree that maybe some "artists" should slow down a little and actually improve their skills and not expect to become the next "star" one month after they started to make music for the first time in their life. And I did not see him whine about anything. What he also meant, and what I also agree with, is that it's wrong to open up a label and signing artists and promise to get them bookings just so the label manager can get gigs him/herself as a DJ and become "famous" on the account of the artists names and music. I have seen it happen quite a few times. Even at big established labels. I have also experienced first hand that label managers stole gigs from the artists and told the organisers that the artists in question were not available so the label managers themself could get the gigs instead. Of course after offering themself as a substitute to the organsiers. And in my opinion it's not the labels managers job to get him/herself gigs and become a "hot shot" DJ with the latest unreleased tracks. The job is to sell the artists music and get them exposed as much as possible and if agreed on, also to get them bookings. Anyways.. Happy New Year 406225[/snapback] Well, I didnt at all talk about label owners "stealing" bookings from artists - That was not in any way a part of my post. Dunno why you mention it :-) I dont know if that problem is only with new or small labels, or also with more established ones, actually - I dont know anything about it at all, so thats why I didnt mention it in my post. And, I think I did understands Detox´s point just fine :-) My point is, that its not up to Detox to decide who should start a label and why, what are the right or wrong reasons to him do not apply to everyone and Im pretty sure that if you ask the people behind the labels themselves they will say their existence and attempt at creation is justified. The ones who decide in the end are the consumers, thats the way the world works :-) Releasing music is most of all something commercial, so, those are the rules you follow (commercial ruleset). The customers decide success. Whining about the market is not going to help anything, the only way to get people to buy a product is through PR, price or quality... and if you are good in those areas, you will prevail (unless you have a no good business instinct). I would like to add, I dont see Detox as being a big whiner at all, Im just talking in general here - or else, I would have quoted Detox directly :-) But, there are "whining tendencies" which I dont appreciate that much, in general, in the scene, culture, market or whatever you want to call it. It takes money to get ANY business established, and as I gather from this thread any label releasing quality music will stand the test of time - So, are people whining about not earning enough money from their HOBBIES ? If so - I have a hard time taking that serious, and if they are really just in it for the money, I dont care about them anyway (even though I respect them, I dont care about their whining). Best Wishes Krell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frontier Psychiatrist Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 What this scene really needs is professional people. People like lets say Eyal Yankovich of Hom Mega. The guy knows his work and his label (Hom Mega) is one of the most professional around. You can't expect a label to succeed even if you have killer exclusive artists. If you don't know shit about business and ignore your crowd (not updating the website, postponing releases time after time, poor cover art, poor CD material and lack of communication between the label and the crowd). It's been some time since i enjoyed anything that was released on Hom Mega but i could only hope that some label managers could take some advices from Eyal. Also i'd like to mention Detox who invests his best efforts (and surely money) and tries to run a good, decent label with several critical acclaimed releases under his belt already. And no, i am not doing it to get more promos Good luck buddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 What this scene really needs is professional people. People like lets say Eyal Yankovich of Hom Mega. The guy knows his work and his label (Hom Mega) is one of the most professional around. You can't expect a label to succeed even if you have killer exclusive artists. If you don't know shit about business and ignore your crowd (not updating the website, postponing releases time after time, poor cover art, poor CD material and lack of communication between the label and the crowd). It's been some time since i enjoyed anything that was released on Hom Mega but i could only hope that some label managers could take some advices from Eyal. Also i'd like to mention Detox who invests his best efforts (and surely money) and tries to run a good, decent label with several critical acclaimed releases under his belt already. And no, i am not doing it to get more promos Good luck buddy. 406382[/snapback] yeah, right, you just mentioned that accidently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frontier Psychiatrist Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 yeah, right, you just mentioned that accidently 406384[/snapback] It's as if my hand became totally independant of the brain and wrote it by herself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 It's as if my hand became totally independant of the brain and wrote it by herself.[/B] 406409[/snapback] your hand is female? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frontier Psychiatrist Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 Hand is a female i think. Not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Le Lotus Bleu Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 yeah, right, you just mentioned that accidently 406384[/snapback] He mentionned that accidently not to get more promos in general, but more coming from Hom Mega & Exposure ps:i have some concrete argues in reserve prooving the opposite about Hom Mega, Mr Pavel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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