devious Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 the main thing that i am talking about that its pitty that all those release are not available freely [anymore] and thats why i said that people should dload everything they cant get for reasonable price for their listening so your comment about "If you can't accept that, I guess you're either 8 years old or have some form of intellectual handicap." is irrelevant here and looks little bit too much in this subject, too heated. 420875[/snapback] You're just mad because he's right and has money and you wish you had his collection. I sense jealousy! Well, maybe you should had began collecting when our friend ukiro did =] and spent the money instead on music that you were saving to buy that new 4 million dollar mansion with, teehee. Anyways, I still think you're lazy and jobless and if you want the oldskool "sound" back in your life that bad, go get people to make new releases with it, or even yourself. Oh wait, I bet you're too broke to afford any software too. I bet you DOWNLOAD it too! teeeeheeeee. Erm, I better watch out, UNIX baby! :> I guess I cheat there too. FreeBSD! Now, hey, here's an application, and here's another sheet of paper for the contact of every artist that you've downloaded. Now ask them their opinion :-/ Aaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 "No it really isnt - The main reason for collectors to buy stuff is to own it, so they can feel it, have it in their hands. Theres no glory in owning the first MP3 release ever made in the scene for instance." all these speeches about glory is empty bullshit, sorry, what glory has to do with owning peace of plastic and enjoing music? "But, if you own the first Goa Trance release on Dragonfly Records you can touch it and you have in your hands a piece of history which is dear to you. You can even protect it!" yes, you can, but the main thing is music, and it shouldnt be a problem to protect it in this era of digitalisation. but i agree that its still a problem . "What matters is that you own a piece of your cultures history, and as such you become part of it. This is important for the fanatics..." this still is a bullshit, just because you own a piece of plastic and paper doesnt make you a part of history . this is only one way of dosens of others how to feel yourself being a part of history. lets say that some kid today will discover goa trance, he buys all oldies, now-is he a part of a history? no, he isnt, but he can help to keep it, yes. if i misunedstood you on this and you meant that owning a record you become a part of a record not a part of a history its still wrong - you cant be a part of a record just because you bought it, record can be a part of you instead. unless you have been involved in creation of that record. offcourse we can talk about you as a part of this culture and because artists produce to make people happy [well not allways, but i think you get my point here] you are a small part of it, but because you have bought a record doesnt make you a part of a history, there are people who never bought cds/lps but still are part of it - they go to parties [and everything comes with that] and do other psy related stuff, enjoy this music afterall. buying records doesnt make one deeper involved into this culture than the other, especiallly buying rarities for huge prices, not everyone is ready to pay money to some mr X. "I would NEVER part with my CD or Vinyl collection, even though I think some of them suck musicly... The reason I dont want to is that they are dear to me, sentimental value - this is what its about." there, you said it - its sentimental value to you, but not to everyone. "This is also why people dont just download it off the net, because they truely, deeply care about the releases & every aspect of them. They want to have them in their hands and pet them! :-)" i too truly care about this music, but i dont have first dragonfly cd. are you better than me ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 You're just mad because he's right and has money and you wish you had his collection. no I sense jealousy! your senses fail Well, maybe you should had began collecting when our friend ukiro did =] and spent the money instead on music that you were saving to buy that new 4 million dollar mansion with, teehee.eem, maybe this is not the point here Anyways, I still think you're lazy and joblessim glad that you can think, or at least you like to think you do and if you want the oldskool "sound" back in your life that bad, go get people to make new releases with it, or even yourself. Oh wait, I bet you're too broke to afford any software too. I bet you DOWNLOAD it too! teeeeheeeee. Erm, I better watch out, UNIX baby! :> I guess I cheat there too. FreeBSD!another comments out of topic, more than - you are trying to insult me, and that is low. still this is not the point here. Now, hey, here's an application, and here's another sheet of paper for the contact of every artist that you've downloaded. Now ask them their opinion :-/tipical elitist attitude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathPosture Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 What's up with the weird quoting!? It's hard to read... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 What's up with the weird quoting!? It's hard to read... 420908[/snapback] im sorry, thought that it will be faster [it wasnt] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krell Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 i too truly care about this music, but i dont have first dragonfly cd. are you better than me ? 420894[/snapback] I dont have it either - So no :-P Reger you are missing my point completely - I am explaining to you how a collector feels about the things he collects. You can be the biggest psytrance freak in the whole wide world without ever buying anything or owning anything besides pirated Mp3s. However, for the collectors of items (and this goes for all collectors, not only the ones we are talking about in this topic) the things I said apply. Thats it. They are deeply in love with the music and very passionate about it, they want these physical effects in their lives. People want to touch things that are important to them - leave their mark on it if they can, or know they have been in contact with it. This way, they become part of it, one with it... Like, when guys stand by a car and talk about it, they will start kicking the wheels... If you admire something, you want to touch it! If you can :-) Thats it. And yes, Im sure that if you take 100 MP3 only kiddies and compare them to 100 other psytrancers who will buy stuff because they collect it. Im 100% sure the last group is generally by far the most dedicated psytrancers out there. Does it make them better people ? I think that would be overestimating the importance of music, but it does make them more involved with the music and the culture. Best Wishes Krell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 I dont have it either - So no :-P Reger you are missing my point completely - I am explaining to you how a collector feels about the things he collects. You can be the biggest psytrance freak in the whole wide world without ever buying anything or owning anything besides pirated Mp3s. However, for the collectors of items (and this goes for all collectors, not only the ones we are talking about in this topic) the things I said apply. Thats it. They are deeply in love with the music and very passionate about it, they want these physical effects in their lives. People want to touch things that are important to them - leave their mark on it if they can, or know they have been in contact with it. This way, they become part of it, one with it... Like, when guys stand by a car and talk about it, they will start kicking the wheels... If you admire something, you want to touch it! If you can :-) Thats it. And yes, Im sure that if you take 100 MP3 only kiddies and compare them to 100 other psytrancers who will buy stuff because they collect it. Im 100% sure the last group is generally by far the most dedicated psytrancers out there. Does it make them better people ? I think that would be overestimating the importance of music, but it does make them more involved with the music and the culture. Best Wishes Krell 420970[/snapback] glad you made your thoughts clear because i firstly thought that its the way you feel everybody else should do as for mp3s and cds - well, as i said, it depends, someone maybe is willing to pay hundreds of euros to some guy and some not, so it isnt that obvious at all [whos most dedicated is impossible to tell by this, only if you have cash and dont buy cd in shop but dload then you do suck, when talking about available items for reasonable price] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmtree Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 it's nice that some things are more precious than others.. one of the best human inventions ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukiro Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 It's not a competition; I don't collect in order to win some arbitrary competition. I also don't place any value in being more dedicated to this scene than others - in fact, I doubt I am. I'm certainly intelligent enough to realize that there are more important things in life than having a complete discography for Blue Room Released, or whatever. But my main passion in life is music, and to me it's a perfectly natural and logical thing to be a collector. So I spend pretty much all my money on records for that reason, not because I want to be cool and admired by others. But that is a separate discussion from what were were on about before. You still don't have the right have all music you want just because you think it's too expensive to buy or because you happen to be passionate about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 It's not a competition; I don't collect in order to win some arbitrary competition. I also don't place any value in being more dedicated to this scene than others - in fact, I doubt I am. I'm certainly intelligent enough to realize that there are more important things in life than having a complete discography for Blue Room Released, or whatever. But my main passion in life is music, and to me it's a perfectly natural and logical thing to be a collector. So I spend pretty much all my money on records for that reason, not because I want to be cool and admired by others. But that is a separate discussion from what were were on about before. You still don't have the right have all music you want just because you think it's too expensive to buy or because you happen to be passionate about it. 421020[/snapback] well, ive never said so, and i also didnt ask you to explain yourself, nor somebody else. i think i made myself clear enough about what i was talking about - so the summary of what ive said[or what i think] is - if you cant get that release you want, you can allways download it, and its not bad, allthough many people are pretty upset about someone who downloads some oldie instead of paying shitloads of money to someone else knowing that nothing from that money will directly go into artist support . as for collecting items - big respect to people like you who care about this music so much, because this way lots of good music can be saved and passed on to others, because not everyone cares that much about music and so many copies are lost . just dont get it so personal when someone is expressing his feelings about something that is relatively close to you . i highly value people who in name of what they like [and what can also help someone else] are ready to spend some money, but this indeed wasnt what my discussion started about . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmtree Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 if you cant get that release you want, you can allways download it, 421126[/snapback] you are mistaken. there are many releases that are not available for download on p2p. probably at least a third, if not more, of the vinyls I own are not on there, and I don't have that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 you are mistaken. there are many releases that are not available for download on p2p. probably at least a third, if not more, of the vinyls I own are not on there, and I don't have that much. 421219[/snapback] well yes, youre right, i didnt pointed it out, ofcourse there are the ones that arent ripped onto mp3, but what i meant was about the ones available ofcourse . so the next theme - can you all please upload/share mp3s now with those rare "hard to find on mp3 hubs" tracks ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taika-Kim Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 I used to be a collector too, so I know why people do that. These days I tend to think, that collecting old releases only for the sake of it (=many old obscure releases that mostly have the same tracks over and over, and the unknown ones usually are that for a reason...) is being in love with matter a bit too much. I think it's important to learn to ignore the banshee call of materialism. It's a part of this asme vicious circle of consumerism, that is taking this system of life DOWN on this planet. It's easy to let this craving for [whatever material] that you can spend on grow on you when you have a lot of money (which, to be honest, almost ANYBODY doing any normal job in the western world today has) available. But after the fullfillment of getting whatever you want, there's always the anticipation for the next thing. Unless this circle is broken, the individual is caught in the trap of working, spending, working and then speding some more. Collecting some goa albums is of course not any big sin, but it's one facet of this problem. When people get used to spending and any level of financial welfare, it's hard from them to ever go down from that. The current situation is the level to which all other possible levels of welfare are compared to, and there is rejection to the thought of spending less, even thought this spending never really does anything else than upkeep this particular habitual way of life. Especially interesting in philosophical sense this question comes when you think of situations when there are two options: you can have the music (=digital information like MP3) or you can have the music AND some physical manifestation of it. Many people feel drawn towards this physical manifestation and spend a lot of money on some rare album. So in essence they are only paying a LOT of symbolical added value. Now let's think about global economy for a while: These same people could also use that same amount of money to help level the inequalities between the rich and the poor. The could do that, and still have the music (which is what albums are really about!), so in essence they would only be losing the prestige value of the item. So let's assume that some individual has spent 5000 pounds on her/his collection... With that amount of money, hundreds of human lives could have been saved somewhere and so on. Of course this only speculation, because the two options were never really opposite to each other, the other one was only an option that never actualised. But's let's now assume that this same person was travelling somewhere, and met some poor villagers whose homes were destroyed in an earthquake. The winter was coming, and the cold is already killing people. Now, if this fellow was really a human being, he would feel empathy towards these people and he might think: "oh crap, all my rare CDs are really just pieces of plastic, whereas the resources I wasted on them could save the life of these people now". Why is it so hard for people to share unwillingly? Is absolute utilitarism really an unattainable trait for the humankind? I know this probably sounds really black and white and over contrasted, but I hope people would look more deeply under what I'm saying. We are so used to speding money, we never really stop to think, what kind of system we are upholding with it. I'm definitely not saying I'm much better than this, but I'm at least trying :/ Trying to be a better human being. So: If somebody came to you and said: "Would it be so bad to transfer all your CDs to mp3, sell the CDs, and then give the money away?", what would be your answer? The only loss would be sentimental, some prestige, but the gains would be felt in the real world, lives could be saved, nature protected, human rights upheld, or whatever you deem valuable in this world... I'm sorry I'm not very good at communicating complex ideas in english, now that I'm reading this, I feel I'm missing many points. Then again, knowing is not the same as understanding. Understanding is more akin to enlightenment, the process where previously only observed things and ideas became part of your personal world and you have a moment of revelation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinos Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 It DOES make sense, though. But I have a hard time fighting off the hardcore collectorism myself. I'm not one... but I might become one sooner or later. The temptation of the matter is too much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devious Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 It DOES make sense, though. But I have a hard time fighting off the hardcore collectorism myself. I'm not one... but I might become one sooner or later. The temptation of the matter is too much! 421296[/snapback] Taika-kim, I agree. I see through some of your points and it's very well worded. I mean, I'm not 100% agreeable to your statements, but there are many points that make sense. I, being a father and not having very much money to "spread to the world's disasters", am very reluctant on sharing my "wealth" or what I have left of it. I'm actually now an @home dad, so money is a little tighter as my girlfriend takes care of everything (her choice, not mine, but i ilked the idea of being with my son 24/7 or at least most of the time, i do get a day off here and there to go out with the buds). Anyways, if you're more than willing to donate 5kGPB, feel free man. Heehee! I'd rather put a nice down payment on a house at that rate. I'm not a hippy and I prefer the urban-lifestyle vs. the "forest" love. *grin* But about consumerism in general, it is agreed, but that's what our entire society reflects upon and I don't see it going anywhere else, not for a very long time, if ever. If money was eradicated, we'd be bartering, a form of consumerism. Aaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmtree Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 so the next theme - can you all please upload/share mp3s now with those rare "hard to find on mp3 hubs" tracks ? 421227[/snapback] hehe.. try going to a bar and asking if you can have a bottle of rare vintage fine wine for a free tasting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niobium Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 It's not a competition; I don't collect in order to win some arbitrary competition. Some people do... 4821533486 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Some people do... 4821533486 422410[/snapback] ha ha, yeah, i watched that one too , posted link in taht "most expensive" thread, too late, but still thats way too much for piece of plastic, but apparently there are people ready to spend that much on 2 tracks. either you have to be crazy collectionist[?] or millionaire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niobium Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 ha ha, yeah, i watched that one too , posted link in taht "most expensive" thread, too late, but still thats way too much for piece of plastic, but apparently there are people ready to spend that much on 2 tracks. either you have to be crazy collectionist[?] or millionaire 422456[/snapback] and it appears he would have gone to 100 pounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukiro Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Fucking hell, that one used to bring in like 15-20 pounds just a year ago! Perhaps vinyl prices are catching up again... Time to see what I have duplicates of =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visine Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Some people do... 4821533486 422410[/snapback] Hey that looks familiar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niobium Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Hey that looks familiar 422535[/snapback] Good-O EDIT: Today's purchase was LSD (Substance) - 15 euros. NOW I can have a shower! \\n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathPosture Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Good-O EDIT: Today's purchase was LSD (Substance) - 15 euros. NOW I can have a shower! \\n 422539[/snapback] Two/three years ago I saw at least 15 copies of the Hallucinogen - LSD CDM in a local record store... They were in the "mega-cheap bin" priced less than €1 a piece... Foolishly I bought only one copy... I still kick myself for that! /DP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxx Posted January 23, 2006 Author Share Posted January 23, 2006 have made a couple of those mistakes myself,the one i remember most is Juno reactor transmissions,i had it in my hands but i was so stupid i didnt buy it,i curse myself for that....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visine Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 have made a couple of those mistakes myself,the one i remember most is Juno reactor transmissions,i had it in my hands but i was so stupid i didnt buy it,i curse myself for that....... 422727[/snapback] Here is your second chance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.