Wich realeses are considered rare?

[ukiro]

the paper behind the cd looks like the cover of hallucinogen - the lone deranger

427089[/snapback]

How very observant of you. Except CDs don't quiet look like that - I'd bet it's a vinyl, dontchathink? Oh, and by any chance, did you happen to notice the rest of the thread?

[Guest antic]

How very observant of you. Except CDs don't quiet look like that - I'd bet it's a vinyl, dontchathink? Oh, and by any chance, did you happen to notice the rest of the thread?

427198[/snapback]

naahhh... see the guy on the horse? I think it's some kind of gothic / medieval romantic stuff... and the vinyl is in very poor condition, with some sauce spots all over it...

 

 

[qa2pir]

Go easy on radi!

[Fuse]

didn't read the whole thread but certainly know

one man game - total trance is hard to find

[Taika-Kim]

Anyways, if you're more than willing to donate 5kGPB, feel free man.  Heehee!  I'd rather put a nice down payment on a house at that rate.  I'm not a hippy and I prefer the urban-lifestyle vs. the "forest" love. *grin*  But about consumerism in general, it is agreed, but that's what our entire society reflects upon and I don't see it going anywhere else, not for a very long time, if ever.  If money was eradicated, we'd be bartering, a form of consumerism.

Aaron

421318[/snapback]

That's exactly what I meant... People spend little money in different things every now and then, and in the end, the sums really grow to be big.

Now in the case of music, they could sell the alubms and still keep the music. So in practice the money they generate thus is almost completely surplus. Still now that there is one big sum of money like this, they like to spend it to have MORE things, even though just giving the money away would practically leave them in the same situation than before selling the CDs. They could still listen to the music.

 

But yes, we are oppoturnistic and want to maximize our spending.

 

I'm definitely not saying, that most people could just keep giving money away like that.

 

BUT the whole idea behind all this was the thought that what if even every now and then, we would restrain from buying things we REALLY don't need, and instead helped some other people?

 

I myself am part of some direct debit systems, Amnesty & Greenpeace both get 5 euros each month from me. That's not so much, but I'm shit poor as a student, so can't really manage more. BUT that's 120 euros each year, which actually sums up to something! (I used to give 35 euros each month actually, also to Unicef, WWF & Save the Children, but had to cut down because I ended up taking student loan because I just couldn't afford that much at this time)

 

My point is, that we could very easily give away much more than we are used to WITHOUT our lives changing in any way to one direction or another!

 

Ok, consider this a challenge everybody: what if you became member of (some new, if you are already part of some) some organization that aims to create a better world insted of supporting the latest killargh label?

 

And last: no, I definitely don't think we should stop using money. It's an ingenious way of transferring value when there is no possibility of direct compensation between individuals for some service or trade!

[niobium]

That's exactly what I meant... People spend little money in different things every now and then, and in the end, the sums really grow to be big.

Now in the case of music, they could sell the alubms and still keep the music. So in practice the money they generate thus is almost completely surplus. Still now that there is one big sum of money like this, they like to spend it to have MORE things, even though just giving the money away would practically leave them in the same situation than before selling the CDs. They could still listen to the music.

 

But yes, we are oppoturnistic and want to maximize our spending.

 

I'm definitely not saying, that most people could just keep giving money away like that.

 

BUT the whole idea behind all this was the thought that what if even every now and then, we would restrain from buying things we REALLY don't need, and instead helped some other people?

 

I myself am part of some direct debit systems, Amnesty & Greenpeace both get 5 euros each month from me. That's not so much, but I'm shit poor as a student, so can't really manage more. BUT that's 120 euros each year, which actually sums up to something! (I used to give 35 euros each month actually, also to Unicef, WWF & Save the Children, but had to cut down because I ended up taking student loan because I just couldn't afford that much at this time)

 

My point is, that we could very easily give away much more than we are used to WITHOUT our lives changing in any way to one direction or another!

 

Ok, consider this a challenge everybody: what if you became member of (some new, if you are already part of some) some organization that aims to create a better world insted of supporting the latest killargh label?

 

And last: no, I definitely don't think we should stop using money. It's an ingenious way of transferring value when there is no possibility of direct compensation between individuals for some service or trade!

428475[/snapback]

 

This sounds like a terrible idea to me. Other people and organizations cannot

be trusted to competently handle my donations. If I want to help out another

human being I feel that I am equally capable of discriminating how and in what

form those resources should be allocated.

 

I 100% agree with you about all of this bullshit materialism however. I DO

understand the nature of addiction though. Discogs is full of them. Discogs veritably reeks

of competitiveness and ego. Who gives a fuck if you got all the records on a rare label?

So you can make someone jealous or envious? Useless. People suck.

[visine]

  Discogs veritably reeks

of competitiveness and ego.  Who gives a fuck if you got all the records on a rare label?

  So you can make someone jealous or envious?  Useless.  People suck.

428508[/snapback]

One of the reasons why I didn't list my collection there

It's nice when someone admires what you acomplished but I don't need my ego stroked.

Of course discogs can be a good resource if you need some info etc. so I still think the site has it's purpose.

[devious]

One of the reasons why I didn't list my collection there   

It's nice when someone admires what you acomplished but I don't need my ego stroked.

Of course discogs can be a good resource if you need some info etc. so I still think the site has it's purpose.

428543[/snapback]

I'm curious visine, what's listed on your virtual-discogs account? ha ha ha, kidding! yeah, i use discogs now for selling off my records. it's also a good resource to use for yourself to keep track of what you want. but some of those wantlists, 300,900,1000,4300!! come on people, shit. i don't think i even have time available to be that greedy. i collected records more so in a materialistic way, yes. i didn't even listen to a lot of them. and now i'm parting them to get cd's that i enjoy, i'm trying to be selective, but almost all ambient/loungey chill music, i highly enjoy!

 

i wanted to be a label collector, but now i'm more so becoming an artist collector. if i hear something by someone i like, i'll check them out more thoroughly and buy more of their stuff. now, if something's uberly rare and i have no idea of what it sounds like and i can get a good deal on it, we all know this is common, i'll JUMP THE GUN!@# Just like everyone else, regardless of materialism or not. if we hate it, we could trade up later to someone else who really wants it.

 

I WILL ADMIT! I do want to finish my TIP label collection completely, CD and vinyl! It's just a promise I made to my lil' guy for his future to stare at and be like "wow, my daddy collected some stupid cheesy music, what garbage" but whatever, I loved TIP and they've (the infinity project) inspired me the most in the psy world. So, alas, I will fulfill it in my TIP materialistic ways! :-D

 

Aaron

[visine]

He he come to Collector Anonymous meeting next Friday at 5

 

"Hi everyone...I'm Mark...I collected Goa/Psy and it ruined my life... I browsed e bay every day until I was so sucked into it my wife left me and took the kids...I lost my job too..."

[ukiro]

Regarding materialism and Discogs showboating:

 

Collecting for me is therapeutic. I've written about that here on Psynews before. I don't frown upon non-collectors; In fact I willingly admit that my collectors instinct is sometimes too strong for my own good. But I want to collect and document the rise and fall of a music genre, and to do this as thorougly as possible I need to have a completist approach.

 

And so what if I have a 500 record wantlist on Discogs? Why is that a problem? I predict that I will buy way more than 500 more records in my life. I add stuff to my wantlist so that sellers will contact me if they have a copy to spare. Sometimes this lets me fill gaps in my collection for next to no money at all, so even if the record wasn't all that important musically, it's worth having in the wantlist just to attract the attention of sellers.

 

Naturally I could spend my money funding cancer research or whatever, but I contribute to the well-being of the world in the way *I* choose, not in whatever way others think I should. Anyone who wants to criticize my record collecting habit from some sort of environmentalist viewpoint will be treated with a strong dose of logic, rhethorics and counter-questions. Music is my main passion in life and I will spend the majority of my income and my free hours exploring it.

 

In a lot of these anti-collector comments, I sense a lack of understanding as to why we collect, and also a fair bit of jealousy. Not necessarily for the collection itself, but for the effort spent, the money spent, and the attention such a collection can generate. But I guess it's too much to ask for the critics to admit this.

[visine]

In a lot of these anti-collector comments, I sense a lack of understanding as to why we collect, and also a fair bit of jealousy. Not necessarily for the collection itself, but for the effort spent, the money spent, and the attention such a collection can generate. But I guess it's too much to ask for the critics to admit this.

428564[/snapback]

I understand why you collect...I'm a collector myself although we have slightly different philosophies, goals and objectives when it comes to collecting. There is howerer elitist attitude among us collectors I've seen over the years. There have been instances when they have trouble keeping their egos in check. For example,..they've had hard time restraining themselves from braging about their super valuable stuff they've recently got once they saw someone talk about his/her success. It was like oh yeah you got that? well let me show you how much I got...and it's more, better, whatever than you...

I'm sure you've seen this type of behavior every once in a while. You've been around long enough to know it is true.

[DeathPosture]

I understand why you collect...I'm a collector myself although we have slightly different philosophies, goals and objectives when it comes to collecting.  There is howerer elitist attitude among us collectors I've seen over the years. There have been instances when they have trouble keeping their egos in check. For example,..they've had hard time restraining themselves from braging about their super valuable stuff they've recently got once they saw someone talk about his/her success. It was like oh yeah you got that? well let me show you how much I got...and it's more, better, whatever than you...

I'm sure you've seen this type of behavior every once in a while. You've been around long enough to know it is true.

428588[/snapback]

Well, that's basic group dynamics isn't it? I'm sure that kind of behaviour is common in most fragmented groups being it online or offline...

[visine]

Well, that's basic group dynamics isn't it? I'm sure that kind of behaviour is common in most fragmented groups being it online or offline...

428610[/snapback]

...so the fact that behavior is evident in other social groups is a good excuse to condone it or agree with it?

[DeathPosture]

...so the fact that behavior is evident in other social groups is a good excuse to condone it or agree with it?

428616[/snapback]

No of course not... And that's not what I meant... What I meant is, that the behaviour you describe can be observed in pretty much any kind of social group... I don't think collectors are much worse than, say, sports-addicts... Or hunters... Or poetry-buffs...

 

A competitive "show-off" nature is an integral part of most social groups... Or so I'd like to believe at least...

 

/DP

[visine]

No of course not... And that's not what I meant... What I meant is, that the behaviour you describe can be observed in pretty much any kind of social group... I don't think collectors are much worse than, say, sports-addicts... Or hunters... Or poetry-buffs...

 

A competitive "show-off" nature is an integral part of most social groups... Or so I'd like to believe at least... 

 

/DP

428620[/snapback]

 

I agree the behavior is evident elsewhere, but consider these two examples. You have Michael Jordan who wants to win NBA championship, He is supposed to overcome his oponents to attain the goal. Now you have a psy collector who collects music on his own, then looks at others and seeks for attention since his collection is "superior". I think these are two different instances of competitive spirit. I think we need to distinguuis between "competitive" such as sports and "showing off/attention whore". I believe "showing off" attitude has to do with the person's self esteem, confidence and maturity. Many "attention whores" have issues with those three things and sometimes did not get enough attention elsewhere so they are trying to overcompensate. I have seen quite a bit of this in Goa collectors circles. Another good example where this is evident is DJ's who will play to impress other DJ's with their latest, greatest, unreleased whatever while loosing touch and focus on their audience on the dancefloor.

[niobium]

No offense intended there ukiro. As a matter of fact, I recognize that there

are a few 'archivists' out there to capture the era like a fly in amber. In fact

I respect it and appreciate it. Melanocorypha is another good example there

as well. I am not at all jealous personally about either of your collections,

in fact, they are like Goa museums and NEED to be in the hands of knowledge-

able, intelligent and competent individuals for permanent historical record.

 

I am merely voicing an aggregated nausea about the whole race to accumulate

items which unfortunately culminated in a few bitchy posts.

 

Aaron, I share the same perspective as you at the moment: I wish to complete

a few labels that I cherish because I have always loved them. TIP, Twisted, Flying

Rhino. Additionally I want all the material of Simon Posford. That's where it

terminates for me in terms of machinistic purchasing.

 

visine, agreed. Discogs is the best for keeping track of your collection and especially (this addresses Ola's remark as well) alerting other Oggers about

what you want.

 

\\n

[niobium]

I agree the behavior is evident elsewhere, but consider these two examples. You have Michael Jordan who wants to win NBA championship, He is supposed to overcome his oponents to attain the goal. Now you have a psy collector who collects music on his own, then looks at others and seeks for attention since his collection is "superior". I think these are two different instances of competitive spirit.  I think we need to distinguuis between "competitive" such as sports and "showing off/attention whore". I believe "showing off" attitude has to do with the person's self esteem, confidence and maturity. Many "attention whores" have issues with those three things and sometimes did not get enough attention elsewhere so they are trying to overcompensate. I have seen quite a bit of this in Goa collectors circles. Another good example where this is evident is DJ's who will play to impress other DJ's with their latest, greatest, unreleased whatever while loosing touch and focus on their audience on the dancefloor.

428625[/snapback]

 

Agreed again visine. You have an excellent insight into human nature. I myself

am highly susceptible to this. I have finally caught myself though. I don't care

anymore. It is hard to recognize it and even trickier to admit it.

 

\\n

[DeathPosture]

I agree the behavior is evident elsewhere, but consider these two examples. You have Michael Jordan who wants to win NBA championship, He is supposed to overcome his oponents to attain the goal. Now you have a psy collector who collects music on his own, then looks at others and seeks for attention since his collection is "superior". I think these are two different instances of competitive spirit.  I think we need to distinguuis between "competitive" such as sports and "showing off/attention whore". I believe "showing off" attitude has to do with the person's self esteem, confidence and maturity. Many "attention whores" have issues with those three things and sometimes did not get enough attention elsewhere so they are trying to overcompensate. I have seen quite a bit of this in Goa collectors circles. Another good example where this is evident is DJ's who will play to impress other DJ's with their latest, greatest, unreleased whatever while loosing touch and focus on their audience on the dancefloor.

428625[/snapback]

I understand your analogy, and of course my previous assements can't be applied to all social groups - and maybe my comparison into sports wasn't that good...

 

But I still believe that internal rivalry is a vital, integral aspect of group dynamics... Be it with a large Discogs collection or not...

[visine]

But I still believe that internal rivalry is a vital, integral aspect of group dynamics... Be it with a large Discogs collection or not...

428643[/snapback]

There is such thing I'd call "healthy competitive spirit" that both sides can benefit from, but there is also another saituation when people use material objects to plug their emotional holes and this is what I'm talking about.

[niobium]

Another sidenote I would like to add is that I think it is particularly

disgusting that people create a multiplicity of accounts to promulgate

the popularity of rare releases. This is transparently obvious when you

go through the individuals who want a release and you see that their

profile consists of NOTHING except one item in their wantlist. This

is right up there with voting 1/5 for releases based on a grudge or based

on its availability for sale. The whole end result is a distortion of the perception

of releases and the resultant general shitty quality of service to be realized there.

 

\\n

[niobium]

I understand your analogy, and of course my previous assements can't be applied to all social groups - and maybe my comparison into sports wasn't that good...

 

But I still believe that internal rivalry is a vital, integral aspect of group dynamics... Be it with a large Discogs collection or not...

428643[/snapback]

 

True enough. But it's really important to conduct yourself there with some

basic good judgement. I really do not like the hoarders. All of my shit

on Discogs is listed there because I am willing to trade it. And in fact

I am going to remove the items I don't wish to trade.

 

A tangible example here is with the release I keep emphasizing:

 

the Crop Circles - Lunar Civilization CD single.

 

ATM there are four people who claim to have it on there. One is private,

one is honest, one I don't know about at all, and the other is completely

unresponsive - DESPITE the fact that there is no indication of an unwillingness

to trade AND the presence of items in the wantlist. Just really lame.

 

\\n

[devious]

True enough.  But it's really important to conduct yourself there with some

basic good judgement.  I really do not like the hoarders.  All of my shit

on Discogs is listed there because I am willing to trade it.  And in fact

I am going to remove the items I don't wish to trade.

 

A tangible example here is with the release I keep emphasizing:

 

the Crop Circles - Lunar Civilization CD single.

 

ATM there are four people who claim to have it on there.  One is private,

one is honest, one I don't know about at all, and the other is completely

unresponsive - DESPITE the fact that there is no indication of an unwillingness

to trade AND the presence of items in the wantlist.  Just really lame.

 

\\n

428664[/snapback]

Hey niobiMANG!

 

Once I see a copy, I'll be sure to knock that person out who has possession of it and I'll come hand deliver it to your door. But you'll have to pay me back for my efforts, but the CD of course will be free

 

As for the collectorelitistattitudething, I was a hoarder. I wasn't knowledgable about everything I had. I found a few tracks I listened to over and over and over and over. Never to even had listened to most of my records. Thus why I'm selling them. I've learned a valuable lesson. If you ain't gonna use it, lose it. =] CDs are much more managable and I now know what I'd like to get on CD

 

Aaron

[niobium]

Hey niobiMANG!

 

Once I see a copy, I'll be sure to knock that person out who has possession of it and I'll come hand deliver it to your door.  But you'll have to pay me back for my efforts, but the CD of course will be free

 

As for the collectorelitistattitudething, I was a hoarder.  I wasn't knowledgable about everything I had.  I found a few tracks I listened to over and over and over and over.  Never to even had listened to most of my records.  Thus why I'm selling them.  I've learned a valuable lesson.  If you ain't gonna use it, lose it. =]  CDs are much more managable and I now know what I'd like to get on CD 

 

Aaron

428767[/snapback]

 

That's nice of you dude. Of course I would compensate you. As you know

my cyber is world reknowned. I could also throw in a Transwave CD or

something.

 

\\n

[Taika-Kim]

On the risk of being too off topic again, about those direct debit payment systems:

 

I've been an employer of both Greenpeace & Amnesty International doing fundraising (yeah, so I've been through this before<g>) and I can tell that these are absolutely great systems for people to help their organizations of choice, with minimal effort. And I'd say that both organizations can be trusted to use the money in best possible way!

 

And about collecting: yeah, as I said, I have a bit of that too. Just try to take my old TIP & Dragonfly albums & I'll bite your head off

 

We have been talking a lot about egos here... But it's not only about that, it's also an form of addiction to some people. And those aren't usually healthy.

 

I for example can remember many times when I've ran to a used record store the first thing when I arrive in a new city. Some years ago when my collecting was going strongest and I was travelling around Europe, I must have spent something like a third of my time going through used record shop shelves or just looking for record stores whenever I was in a big enough city... It was exciting finding long looked-for releases for a few euros, but afterwards I've been thinking that I could surely have used my time in a more memorable way.

[PKS]

Interesting discussion here, but I don't think the majority of collectors do it to "show off". Personally, I have collected for many years (12 years now I think), and it took like 8 years before anyone saw my collection. I do it because of love for music. I am simply a music addict who listen to music almost 24 hours a day! I just have a lot of fun collecting, completing a label etc. I can use a sunny freeday inside my apartment, sorting records all day, and I love it! Am I a music nerd? Yes. I admit it, and I don't care, because this is what I like to do...

 

Hunting for a rare record, is like erey other collecting hobby, like stamps, coins etc. It gives me a good feelng to finally get a CD I have been hunting for, for many years.. Offcourse! It is in the human nature. Human beings was born hunters. In the old days, human beings were hunting for food. In 2006, I hunt for music... Some people still hunt. I guess they get the same rush when hunting down that big deer they have been dreaming of, like when I finally get that Crop Circles Cd I have been dreaming of... Is it bad? No. People can decide themselves what they will use their money on. Some people choose to use in on drugs, others buy new furniture every year, some people travel (and support poluting plane fuel...) and most people spend it on their local pub, peeing digested beer in the toilet every weekend... For me, it's totally rediculous to say collecting cds is any worse than spending it on other things...

 

To Taika-Kim. Yes, arriving a new city and enter a record store is always a funny treasure hunt... For me, that gives much more good memories than visiting a boring museum. I also buy memories that I will have for the rest of my life... You shouldn't regret that you did that... Do what you like, and don't feel bad about it. Don't become a sheep and follow that crowded line into a museum or something, just because that is more "accepted" in the society...

 

Discogs is my favourite site on the internet. Not because of showing off, but I use it as a tool for learning about music. There I find the information I need to collect and do my hobby, and it is as valuable HISTORY as any other museum on this planet. Discogs will for sure be the MAJOR music resource in the decades to come. This will be used as a history lesson for the generations to come...! Imagine the day "rock discogs" is complete...! Everybody interested in music will use it one day... Music writers, journalists, artists, concert organisers, music teachers etc etc. Believe me!