Full On-Progressive, different genres-same side

[Ormion]

It is very popular today to have a full on-progressive fights and this is something that always puzzled me since I believe that these genres have more similarities that differences. Before you read this topic keep in mind three things.

i) This is not against any kind. I said it before: if you like full on listen to it. If you like progressive do the same.

ii)I don't consider myself as a progressive fan, nor a full on fan. (I really love aggressive full on, but I dislike the Israeli style which is the 70% of the whole full on scene)

iii)This is not for every full on or progressive artist, but for the majority of them.

 

So, we all know the differences between these genres, it's time for the similarities:

 

1) They are both clubby music.

2) They are both non psychedelic music. Although they are still Psy trance genres they are not true psychedelic. (But as I said in (iii) there are many exceptions)

3) Both of them have a fan core that bash the other in a ridiculous way. They are many-many full on lovers that bash progressive music as boring shit and they are many-many pro lovers that bash full on as silly music.

4) They are both minimalistic compare to other genres (Goa for example).

5) The both have boring bass. The difference is in the speed and in the volume.

6) They are the most popular genres this time. Although full on is much more famous, progressive releases are selling incredibly well. If you don't believe me check out the charts in Psyshop.

7) Both of them were for a time THE popular genre in the scene. Full on from 2003 until today, progressive from 2000 to 2002.

8) They both destroyed Goa! If your memory is good you must remember that Goa dissapeared in 2000 when almost everybody went to the progressive,minimal, tech-trance sound of Digital Structures records etc. Suddenly no one liked Goa anymore and Goa went poof! Of course at the end of 2002 full on took the lead and finished the job.

9) They both have some of the silliest covers. Full on is like that and progressive like that

10) They both have many acts that use vocals in their tracks.

11) Full on is getting closer day by day to cheesy eurotrance, pure trance or pop trance for some ppl, while progressive is getting closer to House,Techno or progressive trance (not the psygressive but the progressive pure trance)

12) They both have parties that don't look like Psy parties. There are many full on parties that look like Tiesto meets Bomfunk MC'S and many progressive paties that are like Dimitri From Pais meets Ian Pooley.

13) They both have almost nothing to do with the original Psy spirit.

 

IMO

 

Ok there are many more but I think it's enough. I'll say again this is not a bash topic and I'm talking for the majority since they are many-many-many exceptions in both full on and progressive genre.

 

The motto behind this topic is one: LISTEN THE MUSIC YOU LIKE AND FULL ON AND PROGRESSIVE LOVERS LET'S MAKE PEACE.

[Fuse]

lot of contradictions in your post imo

my favourite style when it comes to new music is progressive minded fullon

so

 

I won't respond to everything you said but still there exist psychedelic fullon,

there exist psychedelic progressive,

 

for example,

antix - lull is one of the most psychedelic releases I ever heard and it's minimimal/progressive,

lot's of fullon is called not psychedelic but still I don't get it, it's very melodic but so is goa, how many old skool is just pure melodie, wave in _ wave out, that is called psychedelic,

but fullon has that too,

the most psychedelic genres imo at this moment is the dark psytrance, some dark artist really create some high level psychedelic trance,

I listened to highcosmos yesterday (released in 2006),

it's a bit too fast for me but super super psychedelic, it's insane,

 

well some thoughts could write more & more but it all ends in IMO

[moni]

you don't like full on and progressive, so you just chose to bash both

very admirable .. pff

 

i'll say i like both genres, and i also like goatrance, so i'll go ahead and say:

 

- they didn't destroy goa, people still listen to goa (at least i do)

- music producers changed their concept in a direction of "adjusting", because CDs sales are small, while dance floor music brings more gigs

- they provide enough variety (thus not boring) for any taste, so there is no need to diss other genres if you don't like them

- there is good music and bad music in every music style (including goa, dark, tech, etc), so there will be good parties and bad parties anywhere

- there's enough psychedelia and melodies in music these days, leaving aside the commercial aspects of SOME producers. you just gotta keep your ear open.

- there is full power in ALL genres, includind old-school/goa that gets released today (best example is VA - Apsara)

- i aggree that SOME producers are more like "performers" than "artists" and i'm not proud of those, but then you won't see me recommending them to people.

- if you don't "feel" certain genres of music, just move on instead of bitching.

 

IMO.

[Ormion]

you don't like full on and progressive, so you just chose to bash both

very admirable .. pff

 

- if you don't "feel" certain genres of music, just move on instead of bitching.

 

IMO.

431299[/snapback]

 

Bitching? Did I bash anything and I didn't get it? This is not bashing review this is about similarities. Telling that both genres are clubby for example ain't bitching, it's a fact.

 

I won't respond to everything you said but still there exist psychedelic fullon,

there exist psychedelic progressive,

 

I listened to highcosmos yesterday (released in 2006),

it's a bit too fast for me but super super psychedelic, it's insane,

 

I already said that they are dozens of exceptions. For example I LOVE South African full on and yes! it's psychedelic but this is not the major full on style.

 

About Highcosmos I consider it as Dark or if you prefer it hard-aggressive full on that typical full on style. I spoke about the majority of full on which is Israeli style.

[Ormion]

- they didn't destroy goa, people still listen to goa (at least i do)

 

431299[/snapback]

I still listen Goa but how many Goa cds have been released since 2000? 10? 20? If we still love this music why we don't have more cds?

[moni]

2) They are both non psychedelic music. Although they are still Psy trance genres they are not true psychedelic. (But as I said in (iii) there are many exceptions)

5) The both have boring bass. The difference is in the speed and in the volume.

9) They both have some of the silliest covers. Full on is like that and progressive like that

10) They both have many acts that use vocals in their tracks.

11) Full on is getting closer day by day to cheesy eurotrance, pure trance or pop trance for some ppl, while progressive is getting closer to House,Techno or progressive trance (not the psygressive but the progressive pure trance)

12) They both have parties that don't look like Psy parties. There are many full on parties that look like Tiesto meets Bomfunk MC'S and many progressive paties that are like Dimitri From Pais meets Ian Pooley.

13) They both have almost nothing to do with the original Psy spirit.

 

IMO

431287[/snapback]

these arguments have been used by many people in their "let's go bashing" statements.

generalising in music is also seen as "hot area". you generalised because of a small segment, segment which i consider non-representative for the entire genre(s). concluding that all full on and all progressive are non-psy genres, is wrong ...

 

but it's ok, you added IMO at the end, right? well, i did too.

 

here i go again: IMO.

 

[Ormion]

these arguments have been used by many people in their "let's go bashing" statements.

generalising in music is also seen as "hot area". you generalised because of a small segment, segment which i consider non-representative for the entire genre(s). concluding that all full on and all progressive are non-psy genres, is wrong ...

 

but it's ok, you added IMO at the end, right? well, i did too.

 

here i go again: IMO.

 

431321[/snapback]

Actually I said that none of these genres (the majority) is psychedelic but they still are Psy trance genres. I'm sure you can see what I mean.

Of course I see your IMO but I want to make clearly that this is not a bashing thread. After all I was born for aggressive full on.

[qa2pir]

You may be right, but still these 2 genres are very far from each other MUSICALLY

[Ormion]

You may be right, but still these 2 genres are very far from each other MUSICALLY

431332[/snapback]

Yeah, of course, this is the main difference

[Time_Trap]

5) The both have boring bass. The difference is in the speed and in the volume.

 

So true[generally speaking anyways]..

I love the way the bassline morphs in goa, let alone the mid-bass sounds that surround the basic sub-bass...

[moni]

Actually I said that none of these genres (the majority) is psychedelic but they still are Psy trance genres. I'm sure you can see what I mean.

Of course I see your IMO but I want to make clearly that this is not a bashing thread. After all I was born for aggressive full on. 

431323[/snapback]

look, even if i didn't aggree with you, i accept your opinnion.

 

Edit: np: X-dream - our own happiness

this track is not full-on as genre ... but i always saw it as a full power track. full on = full power technically. so i choose not to make this "discrimination". i just choose music that's quality to my ear. and throw away what i consider bad.

[Fuse]

you don't like full on and progressive, so you just chose to bash both

very admirable .. pff

 

i'll say i like both genres, and i also like goatrance, so i'll go ahead and say:

 

- they didn't destroy goa, people still listen to goa (at least i do)

- music producers changed their concept in a direction of "adjusting", because CDs sales are small, while dance floor music brings more gigs

- they provide enough variety (thus not boring) for any taste, so there is no need to diss other genres if you don't like them

- there is good music and bad music in every music style (including goa, dark, tech, etc), so there will be good parties and bad parties anywhere

- there's enough psychedelia and melodies in music these days, leaving aside the commercial aspects of SOME producers. you just gotta keep your ear open.

- there is full power in ALL genres, includind old-school/goa that gets released today (best example is VA - Apsara) and I edit filteria album, another example

- i aggree that SOME producers are more like "performers" than "artists" and i'm not proud of those, but then you won't see me recommending them to people.

- if you don't "feel" certain genres of music, just move on instead of bitching.

 

IMO.

431299[/snapback]

well I was just to lazy to write that but 90% agree with this respond

the ones in bold I support big time,

[Krell]

They both destroyed Goa! If your memory is good you must remember that Goa dissapeared in 2000 when almost everybody went to the progressive,minimal, tech-trance sound of Digital Structures records etc. Suddenly no one liked Goa anymore and Goa went poof! Of course at the end of 2002 full on took the lead and finished the job.

 

The motto behind this topic is one: LISTEN THE MUSIC YOU LIKE AND FULL ON AND PROGRESSIVE LOVERS LET'S MAKE PEACE.   

431287[/snapback]

In regards to Progressive & Full On having destroyed "Goa" that is complete bullshit (Im sorry). Goa is a "non defined musical genre", and it still exists today.

 

To put the genre "goa" to good use, then Goa is a continually evolving musical edge of the electronic music which is popular at "goa style parties"... There is no "true goa", if you were to define "Goa Trance" you would end up pointing out both progressive, full on, melodic, cheesy, chillout and a lot of other stuff. (Actually, any Goa Cutting Edge music you could define would per say exclude itself from being able to call itself "Goa Trance" since it has been boxed in, and as so its no longer free).

 

I know this might be a bit difficult to fathom - but the first meaningfull genre definitions came with the words "Minimal Psy" "Israeli Trance" and "Tribal Trance" around 1996/97... So, saying that progressive & full on killed Goa is simply wrong, in fact goa created progressive and full on, and kept on living.

 

Goa changed name to Psy - Goa Trance becomes Psychedelic Trance. This is a new name and not new musical content change as such.

Now, the essence of "psychedelic" is to break rules and serving up alternate realities with no boundaries, as such, a state you get used to and are able to define would no longer be psychedelic. (Bookworms out there are welcome to correct me on this, but thats how I understand the term).

What is psychedelic is also up to the individuals reality perception, however when talking about it in completely objective terms, it could per definition not be defined, since it is not a steady definable reality.

 

Quote from Wikipedia.org

"A psychedelic experience is characterized by the perception of aspects of one's mind previously unknown, or by the creative exuberance of the mind liberated from its ordinary fetters. Psychedelic states are one of the stations on the spectrum of experiences elicited by psychedelic substances. On that same spectrum will be found hallucinations, distortions of perception, synaesthesia, altered states of awareness, mystical states, and occasionally states resembling psychosis."

 

So, we are talking about music which is portraying aspects of your mind previously unknown - In order to do this, you cant have the music being defined, since whatever is defined is known - In order to explore the unknown, you need to move beyond definitions and this is what "goa" or "Psychedelic" trance is all about.

 

Now - We can talk about this forever, but what it boils down to is the commercial definition of something (which is the Goa Trance which was released on masse), or the music which was truely free, and existed whether it was released or not.

I would say, in order to accept the commercial term, you would also have to accept that "goa trance" was already dead the day it was defined. So, if anything, "goa trance" committed suicide!

 

However - I truely believe there are MANY artists out there producing music which is groundbreaking and different - Which is essentially "psychedelic trance", but we dont hear about them, because most of this music it simply to weird to put on the market.. So, only the ones who are very serious about understanding "psychedelic experiences" will come in contact with this music.

 

Goa is the creative edge if anything... and if a "genre" then its an open undefinable genre because it defines the electronic music being played at Goa Style parties and as such there where many different styles - some chilled, some breakbeat, some trance 125-155bpm and others just fucked up noise... Free Music, that is what "goa" is really about.

The super melodic stuff - Well, check out where it is produced and you will find most of it stamped "israel" which is why it was early defined as "Israeli Trance" - Which you could then call "Israeli Goa/Psy Trance".

 

So much for the "progressive & full on" killer Goa Part.

 

The motto behind this topic is one: LISTEN THE MUSIC YOU LIKE AND FULL ON AND PROGRESSIVE LOVERS LET'S MAKE PEACE.   

431287[/snapback]

Its a nice motto, and I of course like and understand the intent - But, people are supposed to fight against each other and talk about music.

In the electronic music scene it has been "This vs That" for AGES - it has nothing to do with music as such, its more like a human nature thing... Like "McDonalds vs Burger King", "My dad vs your dad" - We compare ourselves to each other and try to promote ourselves and our opinions... This can be good and bad, for those who keep an open mind its good, for those who dont its bad.

 

So, in essence we should focus on creating open mindedness in general in the human culture - If we achieve that, we have achieved killing all the negative genre/taste wars.

 

Theres good and bad music, and what is what is an individual thing - All the rest doesnt matter, and your just retarded when going to war over it.

 

So I guess Im retared.... better call this quits hehe :-)

 

Best Wishes

 

Krell

[Time_Trap]

What is psychedelic is also up to the individuals reality perception, however when talking about it in completely objective terms, it could per definition not be defined, since it is not a steady definable reality.

I would like to add,as I've said in the past, psychedelic literaly means "bringing the soul to the surface" .. which is subjective and depends on the individual's perception of course..

I think I know what you are saying though, nice way to put it, psychedelia is about the inexpressible, that which cannot be expressed , something weird and surrealistic.

[dmtree]

most goa is just as boring as most progressive and most full-on

 

you can add that to the list of baseless generalizations

[Stalker]

Thank God progressive and minimal destroyed goa...the super psychedelic music

Btw, i will not argue anymore saying that a genre is not psychedelic. it is psychedelic, it is just in a diferent form, and if you cant understand that, there will be always arguments on that subject. Since there is a formula for psychedelic? Does It has to have acid lines? I say no, if there is anything that get me out of trance is the acid lines.

See? now i can say that Goa is not psychedelic! Its chessy dance music, formulatic and has those horrible basslines! Some exceptions thou...

See how does it sounds ridiculos?

[Time_Trap]

Thank God progressive and minimal destroyed goa...the super psychedelic music

Btw, i will not argue anymore saying that a genre is not psychedelic. it is psychedelic, it is just in a diferent form, and if you cant understand that, there will be always arguments on that subject. Since there is a formula for psychedelic? Does It has to have acid lines? I say no, if there is anything that get me out of trance is the acid lines.

See? now i can say that Goa is not psychedelic! Its chessy dance music, formulatic and has those horrible basslines! Some exceptions thou...

See how does it sounds ridiculos?

431446[/snapback]

 

Of course there's a correlation between psychedelic state and trance state but they are not exactly the same, i think.

Some music could get you into a trance state without being ultra-psychedelic, and vice versa.

[eh?]

 

As for the rest of your post -->

[Stalker]

Of course there's a correlation between psychedelic state and trance state  but they are not exactly the same, i think.

Some music could get you into a trance state without being ultra-psychedelic, and vice versa.

[eh?]

 

As for the rest of your post -->       

431448[/snapback]

 

That was my point Nick

And my post was suposed to sound wrong. I dont think that about goa, what i dont agree is that is ok to say minimal/progressive isnt psychedelic, but goa isnt. Like goa has hold the secret formula of psychedelic music

Wich i strongly disagree.

Take Pink Floyd for ex. The greates psy moments of their music is when its minimal. Echoes is the best ex for that

[Time_Trap]

That was my point Nick

And my post was suposed to sound wrong. I dont think that about goa, what i dont agree is that is ok to say minimal/progressive isnt psychedelic, but goa isnt. Like goa has hold the secret formula of psychedelic music

Wich i strongly disagree.

Take Pink Floyd for ex. The greates psy moments of their music is when its minimal. Echoes is the best ex for that

431454[/snapback]

So, couldnt someone say that Pink Floyd are NOT psychedelic? Do they hold the secret formula of psychedelic music ?

 

(As said and agreed above psychedelic is subjective to a great extent)

 

[personally i do find them psychedelic at certain parts]

 

I dont know if Echoes is considered minimal...

Anyways...

The more music I listen the more music I enjoy..

 

Btw another of the most psychedelic genres IMO is ambient.

[Krell]

To someone who spent his entire life under the influence of LSD, not doing drugs for a week and getting a job would be a psychedelic experience, while doing LSD and listening to fucked up music would be just an everyday experience.

 

hehe

 

Krell

[Time_Trap]

To someone who spent his entire life under the influence of LSD, not doing drugs for a week and getting a job would be a psychedelic experience, while doing LSD and listening to fucked up music would be just an everyday experience.

 

hehe

 

Krell

431456[/snapback]

hm

technically he couldnt be tripping every day cuz there's tolerance grown...

and i think it completely wears off after a week or so...

[Krell]

hm

technically he couldnt be tripping every day cuz there's tolerance grown...

and i think it completely wears off after a week or so...

431458[/snapback]

Your right.

 

Monday DMT

Tuesday Weed

Wednesday Amphetamines

Thursday Ayahuasca

Friday LSD

Saturday Laughing Gas

Sunday aMT

 

That should sort him out, more or less.

 

Or perhaps that doesnt work either, Im not that much of a drug geek to know :-)

 

Best Wishes

 

Krell

[Time_Trap]

Your right.

 

Monday DMT

Tuesday Weed

Wednesday Amphetamines

Thursday Ayahuasca

Friday LSD

Saturday Laughing Gas

Sunday aMT

 

That should sort him out, more or less.

 

Or perhaps that doesnt work either, Im not that much of a drug geek to know :-)

 

Best Wishes

 

Krell

431460[/snapback]

heheh

yes that would sort him out

and cause him some considerable brain damage

[moni]

 

Krell for president!

[Tox]

I gave up on the whole Progressive Vs Melodic internet-fights around 2002. I'm sure Anoebis will still remember those days too good oold goabase.de

It's ALL psy-music IMO, to each their own!