Guest stringtheory Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 I have no sympathy for groups like Metallica bitching and moaning about mp3s. They have more money then they could spend in 10 lifetimes. I have a big problem with people trading psytrance mp3's. Let's be honest, 99.9% of psytrance artists don't make much money. Worldwide psytrance is not hugely popular and therefore most artists do not sell enough volume of albums to really make serious money. Most of the artists make the music because they love the music. It is horrible to deprive those artists of the already small amount of money that they make. If you want to get mp3's...go download Limp Bisquick......if you want to listen to Pystrance......buy the damn album !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kingdok Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 That's been the general consensus on this forum. i.e. -- MP3s are great as a means of promotion, but don't base your entire collection around 'em. With the advent of MP3-Jing (Anyone tried Traktor yet? -- pretty nifty), there'll always be the need to conserve space on one's harddrive -- wavs are just too damn big...but you should rip tracks from albums you've bought, not just yank 'em from some anonymous FTP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stringtheory Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 This is not a topic I have posted about or responded to before. But I am just sick of the constant mp3 posts on these forums. I mean one has to have respect for these artists who are making this wonderful music and getting paid very little for it. It just seems wrong to deprive them of the small amount of money they are getting paid. If psytrance artists on the whole were making as much as Hip Hop, Rock, and Pop artists do in the states, then I would not care as much about the mp3 issue. But it just is not right to screw over people that are doing such an amazing thing as sharing their artistic creations with us :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest meric Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 i agree and i know exactly how little money the artists are being paid by the labels. it's a shame that the community is as it is right now with the mp3 sharing/trading even tho the mp3 has been a revolution in it's own and brought many positive things to the scene. i myself use mp3 constantly but whenever i come upon good material i buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Goagabba Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 Well, before psy, there was New Wave and Punk for me. I sit at home, and try to think of the music I was listening when I was 10 - 18, when a song pops into my head, I search for it and download it. Most of the bands that I download are no more, like The Dead Kennedy's, Butthole Surfers etc. Buying the album, would not give the artist anymore money, just to the company selling it. Psy trance is a small community, which needs all the support it can get. I don't download much trance, and the stuff I have downloaded, I've got on cd now anyway. Bom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dam10n Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 It sucks. The number of emails I get asking for burns of promos each week is getting sickening, and the labels' sales are down too... it's not good. People out there seem to paint psy labels with the same wide brush as the major labels, thinking that it's okay to rip off music whether it's from global monsters like EMI or a couple of hippies working out of a back bedroom in someone's apartment. Likewise the psy labels dont have the resources or time to block their filenames, the majors have more money and resources to dedicate legal teams to doing just that, so we're headed for a situation where the majors get clear leaving small indie labels inc. psy ones suffering. Who's up for a subscription-paid p2p network giving access to psy .mp3 files that gets the money direct to labels and artists? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest andy Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 yeah cool idea damion, - me i keep a list of stuff i've got an mp3 - bout 30% of collection and every time get some cash buy the original if its somthing i'm using /listening to at all, bought pigs in space the other day - i'm just using it as a tool to listen to albums before i buy! - watch out chaos i got a clean credit card:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest andy Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 mainly cause if you really listen you are losing some sound to the mp3 - and with psy you just cant have that:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 "Who's up for a subscription-paid p2p network giving access to psy .mp3 files that gets the money direct to labels and artists?" Definetely me! I would pay 50-100 Euros a month to get access to a legal p2p network with unlimited download of psy music. chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dam10n Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 Hmm okay how would this work (me = as technical as bar of soap.) Fanning set up napster easily didn't he - is it that simple? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lurk Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 I'm on an IRC channel where we don't allow any trading of music whatsoever. If someone comes on and demands to trade music, we tell them that there's no trading here; if he doesn't shut up we kick him off and ban him. I know thats not possible here, not yet anyway, but I do think that the moderators should remove all mp3/trading based topics as soon as they see them. Obviously requests for a burn of something that is deleted and someone trying to sell some second hand originals should not be a problem. Children/Mars, do you think this should be done ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trancer Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 I hate Mp3's aswell. I have only downloaded stuff i can't find anywhere.. Someone here said: that labels don't sell as much as they used to. It's not weird. I think more people have dropped of the scene that joined it the last 2 years.. And this time around everybody is creating his own label and everyone is releasing his music..think of how many shit-releases we had the year 2001-2002 and there is coming up more... Ok, mp3 has of course a major part here..i remember in 96 when i listened to a CD, if it was one awesome track on the Album, I would buy the CD just for that track. Today i think there is only 5 % of us that would buy the whole CD just for one track..instead we go to our computer and download it and save like 20$... Well that's my view of the situation...If you like the music, then buy it!!! even for one track... BOM Trancer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest space^madness Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 do you really think the morons coming here asking "WHERE CAN I FIND GOA-MP3'S ?!?!?!?!?!" gives a F-UCK about all the posts/replies "buy the music!" ? nope. you guys are perhaps tired of all the guys asking for mp3's, i'm even more tired of you bastards telling them to BUY THE MUSIC. just shut up, ignore them. do you really think they'll get some sort of enlightment due to these posts ? "psytrance-artists are poor, sales are low, bla bla bla bla bla". no shit? like, "aha, now you made me understand, they're poor, now i have to support them by actually buying their albums". what the f-uck? naive. bom bom this post may seem a bit agressive, but *rrrrrrrrrrraorrrrrrrr*OoO_oOo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ciotera Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 One thing you guys are forgeting is that mp3s have made psytrance accessible to millions of people who otherwise would never experience it. True, the artists are not compensated for the lost record sales, but they are somewhat compensated by the fact that a lot more people are going to psy events, more psy events are being organized and the artists get paid to perform on these events, which is probably the main source of their income anyhow (or arguably should be in this genre). On the whole, I'd like to think that things balance out, because they always do one way or the other. It makes no sense to be dismayed by MP3 trading, because it is simply a fact of life now, and there is no enforceable way to make it disappear (kinda like drugs So maybe, just like drugs, MP3s are not that bad??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stringtheory Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 I really don't give a damn whether you think it has an effect or not. I think MP3 trading of pystrance is lame, and I am going to continue saying it is lame. In fact, I would love if Mars and Aenobis deleted all posts pertaining to MP3 trading. This site is about SUPPORTING pystrance,,,,not bringing it down. If people want to talk about trading mp3's...then they should make their own fucking forum. It shouldn't really surprise me though, because the majority of people don't give two shits about anybody or anything but themselves....And they forget the very important fact that if these artists, who get paid very little, didn't make this wonderful music, then they would never be able to experience it. And if someone simply cannot afford to buy the music...there is a great place called mp3.com. They can download tons of free music from there. Otherwise there is NO EXCUSE. Unless the artists in question specifically says it is okay to download and trade his or her music. Even then, if someone had any respect whatsoever, they still wouldnt do it. They would BUY THE ALBUM! The artists deserves to be able to make a living. But of course you mp3 kids don't give a shit about that right. You just want to steal music so you can play it at your little parties and get all fucked up. You have no concern about the artist who is trying to feed and clothe him/herself and put a roof over their heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dizzy Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 I just have to say that many ppl can't afford to pay x amount for the album (here in Mexico u find a cd for no less than 20dlls, and it's a lot) so if u can download SOME music i don't think it's wrong, i don't mean u have to download your whole collection but it doesn't hurt, also, artists, could come live here in Mexico and have a good life with their earnings, i mean they charge USD3000 for a gig, here 3000dlls are 30,000 pesos a fuckin lot of money, so its decent. I don't agree with downloading mp3's in a way that all your collection is mp3, but, like Ciotera said, maybe their not so bad after all. more and more ppl get to know psy this way, i know i did, because i used to live in a city where electronic music in general was not known until 2 years ago...only a few knew about it, and record stores are just getting good music... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest --==MiLeS==-- Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 Ciotera got a point since MP3 somehow benefits niche markets such as psy as otherwise people have no chance of getting exposed to it...No radio or TV airplay, ignored in the techno scene as popular DJs refuse to play it, local shops carrying not a single CD...As many know, discovering Psy may give a Eureka but its damn hard to find the grail. Most of the newcomers somehow support the scene by going to parties and festivals...where the real money for the artists is made and more people automatically implicate a bigger percentage of CD buyers.... Face it, an average track on a compil can be licensed for about 500 € flat fee and that primarily is for the label that owns the copyright. The artist will get approximately 10-15%...Whether a compils sells good, okay or not at all doesn't really influence the income of the artist much. Infected cashed 10.000$ for BP Empire and thats it... Killing MP3 gives power back to the MTv and radio acts but will not be a good thing for Psy imo. From an artistic viewpoint it is good for the artist that more people have the chance to hear the music...That is the other part of copyright law, its not about money only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Project Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 The new solution will slowly be realizeed withing the next couple of years. It will be possible to stream high quality stereo tracks even with 56K modems (a new squeeze technique will make the tracks very very small without any quality loss). This way people wont be able to download the music but once the music has been streamed the tracks will be in the browser catche (until erased) and next time the visitor hits the website he or she do not have to stream it again to be able to listen to the music. This is a solution that will once and for all shut up all the people that says that 2 min's tracks are not enough before deciding to buy the CD. With this solution they will be able to listen to the full tracks over and over again before buying the music. The alternative is CD format's with multiple viruses on that will damage the CD if people try to rip it. I am not for this solution but it might become a reality soon if people don't start to change track and stop stealing music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Project Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 Miles I do somehow agree to some of your points about mp3's are good for people to discover new music and bands and that some bands make a good profit out of live gigs but what about the many many bands that don't play live (eighter because they have chosen not to or because the organisers dont care to book them)? They do not make any money out of festivals/parties. Is it fair to take their income away from them by downloading their music instead of buying it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BABA Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 I have to say that i disagree with most of the posts here. I download a rediculus amount of MP3's. Many are psy trance. But, I buy around 4 to 5 CD's a month, which is a lot considering I am so broke. I discovered psy trance with MP3's. And if you are a fan of the music, you will buy the original. So why ban them ?? Why fight a useless war which brings us to the past. We should flow with it, and adapt music sales to methods that will work in the future. Also, a recent study, by the economist showed that the biggest MP3 downloading individuals have increased their CD consumption by over 20 % , What does that show ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stringtheory Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 As I said earlier, This is about psytrance mp3s. I am not attempting to spark a debate on mp3s in general. There is no way to completely stop it I know. It is up to the community of people who listen to the music to have responsibility. I am not worried about people downloading Britney Shits mp3s because the girl has more money than she could ever dream of spending. Psy artists do not have anywhere near that kind of income. They are doing this for the love of the music, and deserve something for their effort. It is up to us...the people who love and listen to psytrance....to show that respect and not burn the cds and trade the mp3s. We have to show respect and responsibility because we are all aware of how little the artists who make this music recieve. Responding to some of the earlier thoughts: I don't like the idea of putting viruses on the CD's to ruin them if burned. That is a dangerous can of worms to open up. What happens if the burner gets ruined, or what if it ruins the persons CD player. There could be many lawsuits, etc...And what about the person who is only burning a backup copy for him/herself. As to the statement of how on the artistic side it is better for the artists because more people will hear their music....That is fine if the artists releases stuff free for download, or states he or she doesn't care if people trade mp3s. But again, in psytrance, there is so little money involved....we really need to SUPPORT the artists as much as we can. They have the RIGHT to MAKE A LIVING. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ird Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 EP, if you can stream a track "without any quality loss" (or, which sounds more realistic, with little quality loss), you can also dump them to your harddisk, i.e. download them, all the same. There're many ways to do that - for instance, you could capture the output of your soundcard and save it to a wav file in soundforge or any other recording program. Some sound cards (SB live is among them) have a "what U hear"-kind of setting, which allows you to "loopback" the output without any quality loss. Assuming you know all that, what is this new solution really about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Project Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 ird the stream will be inside the next generation of Flash and Shockwave and only if you're a top top notch hacker you will be able to crack the player files. There's no way that "ordinary" people will be able to crack the files. It's not like a normal streaming audio file in a HTML file. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Project Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 Of course it is always possible to record the sound from your computer to a stereo or another computer but for most common people it's a thing they wont even think about. They normally just download to their desktops. This new way of 95% secure streaming will not allow them to do so since the audio files are inside a secure file. But yes there's always ways to hack even the most secure files but at least the majority of people wont downlaod the msuic that easy anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest space^madness Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 mp3s can't be stopped, hackers/crackers will "help" us get the music. everyone should know that. there is nothing that can be done about the mp3-scene, i don't understand what the fuck there is to discuss. for myself, i've tried lots to not get involved in these ridicilous discussions. it's ALWAYS the same, no fucking end to this shit. and people still go on (including myself, *sigh*). it's a neverending loop without progression. it's a major problem in australia, please help us stop it. yeah right. bom bom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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