smith Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 SMITH i dont know in which world you are living mate but in my world there are some stupid people like me who own companies that are called LABELS.Seems like though that in your world there are just trancers,party promoters and artists,whats the name of that planet? 485887[/snapback] Hey mate! You own a whole record label? Farkin ell! Thats a big responsibility indeed, & I dont think you're stupid at all for doing this, i think the scene needs labels, but maybe not as many as there is now. Just a few major ones that keep the talent circulating. In fact what is the use of record labels in a scene as underground as trance? I seriously dont know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moni Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 Excuse me but is without a doubt the lamest excuse I have heard yet. My version: Its like you know in your town shop X is a long way to go, you dont want to walk so you pick up you trusty screwdriver and steal a car. I mean it has to be good for something right? The car manufacturer get to sell another car. Bottom line, it is not legally yours, and still you take it for yourself, I think that comes pretty close to the definition of "stealing". Peace 485920[/snapback] it's not the lamest excuse, we just reffer to different situations. your version of thiefs are the ones who refuse to buy CDs, cause mp3s downloading is what they actually want. my version of thiefs are the ones who have a choice: to download, to buy, or both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ktrance Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 It's perfectly legal to download mp3s in many countries Hehehe yes I know but I dont live there. your version of thiefs are the ones who refuse to buy CDs, cause mp3s downloading is what they actually want. No, my version is that stealing is stealing no matter what. my version of thiefs are the ones who have a choice: to download, to buy, or both. Sorry I honestly dont understand what you mean. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moni Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 Sorry I honestly dont understand what you mean. Peace 485934[/snapback] legal or illegal, downloading is wrong, but it exists, and no one has come up with something innovative that would stop people from downloading. not yet. it's the reality. so in this reality, people can choose: - to buy CDs and not to download - not to buy CDs and to download - to download CDs but also to buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETOX Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 KTRANCE ofcourse not all of my software is original in my pc BUT ofcourse i never mentioned anywhere that ALL OF SOMEONES MUSIC has to or must be original I own original copy of Windows XP but i dont have an original copy of Soundforge which i happen to use maybe once a month or something. I own original copies for Final Fantasy and Pro Evolution Soccer games for my Playstation but i got couple of copied games too like Killer 7 which i recently copies and which i didnt like at all so i saved my money there. I own original copies for Football Manager and Heroes Of Might And Magic for my PC but i own many other games in copied format.The last one i copied was the latest part of the Civilization series by Sid Meier which doesnt worth all of its money if you ask me. I got a whole collection of original movies for my film collection but almost the other half of my collection are copies which i made from renting my movies from the local video store. I own more than 1000 original cds but i got also 150-200 copies. I dont say that people shouldnt download at all i am saying that there must be a BALANCE in everything we do.The ideal would be for each one of us to have enough money and would be able to buy anything we want in original but since that is not possible for most of the people then keeping a balance is the right thing to do. And in my humble opinion having 1500 albums in your hard disc and owning just 20 original copies is not what i call balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ktrance Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 I dont say that people shouldnt download at all i am saying that there must be a BALANCE in everything we do And in my humble opinion having 1500 albums in your hard disc and owning just 20 original copies is not what i call balance. I understand you completely, as I said for ME it was more of a moral choice. Truth to tell I dont give a flying f*** what others do. I simply stated my standpoint and why I dont do it. legal or illegal, downloading is wrong, but it exists, and no one has come up with something innovative that would stop people from downloading. not yet. it's the reality. so in this reality, people can choose: Yes people can choose. But: my version of thiefs are the ones who have a choice: to download, to buy, or both. and - to buy CDs and not to download How do you consider this stealing? not to buy CDs and to download Compared to the above? ? Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moni Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 oh, i'm sorry, my mistake. i ment that my version of thiefs are PEOPLE who have a choice: to buy, to download, both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ktrance Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 oh, i'm sorry, my mistake. i ment that my version of thiefs are PEOPLE who have a choice: to buy, to download, both. No problem I just didnt get what you were writing. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Astro Cortex Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 I think Moni and Detox pointed it out quite well: It's everyone's own choice how to use it, and many people abuse it cause it's comfortable. It is obvious that artists and labels could indeed benefit from MP3 sharing, if downloading encouraged more people to buy the original releases that is. But unfortunately, these people are in the minority I suppose, even in the more underground scenes. Those who download music should keep a balance, I agree, but what "balance" means to the individual person is not as easy to determine as one might think. On the one hand it depends, of course, on the financial situation: How much music you can afford to buy, and if dloading can be helpful in making a good choice. But then, it also has to be considered that the demand for new music is highly individual too and certainly not dependent on how much you can afford. So does that make those people who can't afford to buy all the music they want less "guilty" of downloading? Certainly not. Nonetheless, admittedly I'd download a lot of music if I could afford very little. So it's not quite as easy to judge. One could bring forward the argument of sound quality and artwork (and to me, for one, those mean a lot!) but there are still too many people who it doesn't matter to. I may not have added much to the discussion, but still, that's how I see things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goazzz... Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 I though it was about supporting the artists.....not the labels...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETOX Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 Goazzz the idea is not only to support the artists you love but also the labels that you like. People must understand that the role of the labels in this small scene is not just to release cds in order to make money for themselves.Because labels unlike artists are most of the times faceless people tend to ignore their significance which is a big mistake if you ask me.Everybody knows who Hallucinogen is but few people know who runs Twisted Records,everybody knows Raja Ram but few know who really runs TIP World,Youth is worldwidely known but he is not really active with Dragonfly and few know the people who run the label. Labels are as important in the scene as party organisers and promoters are too. Yes artists make the music and people enjoy the music but its labels that promote it and distribute it all around the globe plus its labels that give money to the artists for their music and support them financially in what they are doing and most of the times arrange gigs for them.By ignoring the labels you also hurt the artists in many ways and therefore the music itself. Yes there can be a party featuring just artists and the crowd but its the party organiser that arranges everything from the venue to the soundsystem and the security and its the party promoter that is responsible for how the flyer will look like and how the promotion will be done in order to achieve a good crowd for the party so that it can have a vibe. People with all the respect i think that you need to get a little educated on how things work on our small scene,its not bad noone knows everything and who knows you might get suprised while discovering new things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goazzz... Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 People with all the respect i think that you need to get a little educated on how things work on our small scene,its not bad noone knows everything and who knows you might get suprised while discovering new things. 486023[/snapback] What makes you think we don't already know what you said....we've been in couple of parties before to know most of what it takes to set up a party...! The discution "label Vs Artists" it's been done few times before here, and my opinion is i'd rather go to a party and listen to Antix(example) than buying his cd.... But i'm curious to know your opinion if you can't afford both....what would you choose? Party or CD....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 What a frightening topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETOX Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 Goazzzz this is not a topic where we compare whats more important between a party and buying an original cd.I just putted some examples in my previous post to help you understand some things you might have missed. What we examine here is mp3 downloading,trading and sharing and how it affects the scene,artists,labels,people and everyone involved. You said in your previous post that you thought that the main idea was to support the artists and not the labels BUT i tried to explain to you that the artists are connected in many ways with their labels and by supporting a label you also support its artists. A label is an artist's house just in case you havent noticed it yet P.S And to answer your question between a good party and a good cd i prefer a good cd because i am a lonely guy and have more fun when i am alone that when i am with others,except ofcourse if the party was at the Playboy Mansion hehe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goazzz... Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 P.S And to answer your question between a good party and a good cd i prefer a good cd because i am a lonely guy and have more fun when i am alone that when i am with others,except ofcourse if the party was at the Playboy Mansion hehe. 486036[/snapback] Ok...this will do for my previous question...! Agree with you in some, disagree with some others...! Respect for your job, if your label is the artists' house...! Sorry for being off topic....pls go on..! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Journey Man Project Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 the thing is this, I am sorry to upset people but my comment about how much to spend was to say some people vlue things differently, as far as I'm concerned a car is a car, if it moves then I'm happy, whereas an m3 to me is crap, and a cd is wrth the money... and I ave been collecting music for 15 years so here is the math: 8000/15 = 534/12 = 44 dolllars a month, not even much more than a cd a month... I would imagine there are at least about 800 cd 's from various genres I'd love to have, but even with mp3 available... I will not download... and to the software question, of course I have paid for it, I had a computer rom work most the time (laptop) and it came with softeware, music software I generally used a t friends studios, s o i dneve ask, it is there, choice... as I said if you donwload mp good for you but I cannot beleive some of the hypocrisy that goes on here and the xcuses are very pathetic... $44 a months isn't uch, most students I know that would be 1 night of drinking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cangrejo Posted March 5, 2006 Author Share Posted March 5, 2006 For me it is more of a moral choice. No matter what excuse you use it is still stealing, and I dont steal, period. 485902[/snapback] I consider it stealing when you have something and you can share it without losing anything, but you decide not to share it. It's all a matter of definition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETOX Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Cangrejo labels PAY the artists to get their music and release it so if you download the music from the net instead of buying it then this means that you steal the labels. Its not a matter of explanation but a matter of logic either you like it or not. So the artist creates his music and he decides whether to offer it for free to the people or not,from the moment he sells it to a label then this means that the rights of the track for a limited time belong to the label and noone else has the right to sell or give away for free this track to anyone. As simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Sorry Detox & co, but anytime anyone says that the issue of downloading is simple and clearcut I have to laugh. The very fact that this is THE biggest ongoing debate for years now should make it clear this is anything but "simple"... Stealing is robbing someone at gun point. Stealing is breaking into a store and pilfering the merchandise. Stealing is embezzling funds from your company. Stealing is slipping that chocolate bar into your pocket at the corner store. Most people have a sufficient enough sense of right and wrong to avoid doing all of these things. On the other hand, millions of people use P2P services and other stuff without a second thought. The fact is, downloading music really doesn't feel like stealing at all. The argument that downloading deprives the copyright owner of a sale is muddied by the fact that many people wouldn't bother paying for what they've downloaded. As a final farewell to this simplicity you speak of, there is also the issue of downloading introducing content to listeners and actually creating sales. The concept of "intellectual property" is debatable enough to begin with... throw in all this fast-paced technological change and you have yourself one hell of an ambiguous memetic clusterfuck. I'll tell you what is rather simple however... if you don't want anyone downloading music, don't ever release it to the public. Save it for the live sets. Now that's simple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moni Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 ... as I said if you donwload mp good for you but I cannot beleive some of the hypocrisy that goes on here and the xcuses are very pathetic... $44 a months isn't uch, most students I know that would be 1 night of drinking 486079[/snapback] as i've said, you cannot generalize. you wanna know how much i was earning when i graduated from university and got this job? 150$. could i afford to spend $44 per month on CDs? no. now i earn more, so i can afford to spend $44 per month on CDs .. but now i have another problem ... if i buy CDs for $44 per month, then .. will i have enough money to go to a festival this summer? it's not easy. but still, you cannot by far compare me with YOU. you probably earn now 4-5 times more than what i earn. this would be like ... me asking you to spend $300 per month on CDs. would you do that? no. and come on, you can't ask students to stop drinking ... that's painful!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phobium Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 I'll tell you what is rather simple however... if you don't want anyone downloading music, don't ever release it to the public. Save it for the live sets. Now that's simple 486092[/snapback] Good point But then you won't get a lot of gigs, will you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTP Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Man, this discussion can go on forever and 3 days. We will never reach a point. To each his/her own. I will continue to download in the same manner as I am doing since the last year or so - occasionlly, a bit ... in the whole last year I downloaded about 3 albums and maybe another 50 tracks of psy music, not more. I will not stop that. You can't make me stop that. Already when an artist is coming here to do a live and I dunno anything of him I try to check one or two mp3s. And when the sound is satisfying I'll go to the live set. You can't change that. But I also will continue to buy music as occasionally as before - like five to eight albums a year. Because I can't just always leech, I think the scene deserves that I give something in return, even if I can hardly afford CDs with the 70 Euros I have for private spendings except food and clothing each month. I'll tell you what is rather simple however... if you don't want anyone downloading music, don't ever release it to the public. Save it for the live sets. Now that's simple 486092[/snapback] I know an even better move: releasing of rare vinyl gatefold LPs, hand numbered, with big fat thick ten page booklet with artist information, artwork, writings, anecdotes ... the whole thing limited to 500 copies worldwide, the first 100 coming on neon green vinyl with an autographed huge blacklight poster. THAT would let people get out their purses, hah! And when all are sold and people are craving for more, because the music is so good and there are so few records and they all go away for astronomic prices on Ebay you release another 300 gatefold double vinyls, the first one being the original vinyl and the additional vinyl being a remixes single of the first one with three or so remixes ... all that with different artwork and an even thicker booklet with pictures of the releaseparty of the first vinyl, the first 100 again coming with a neat poster. Collectors will run your door in! No matter how many people download the album, enough people will pay astronomic prices for the vinyls (yes, they will, just look at which values the oldschool classics go, you gotta make it like that!) because of the artwork and all that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowball Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 i used to download a lot before,it was p2p that got me in the scene... it wasnt a choice actually,it just happened,the only electronic music in shops here is tiesto and pvd so what was i supposed to do? now that i have found online ordering,i stopped downloading,not so much for moral issues but for the qualityof the music,and even if it sounds stupid,a cd is sooo much more satisfaction than an mp3 file!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goazzz... Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 I download music....sue me if you want. end of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radi6404 Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 as i've said, you cannot generalize. you wanna know how much i was earning when i graduated from university and got this job? 150$. could i afford to spend $44 per month on CDs? no. now i earn more, so i can afford to spend $44 per month on CDs .. but now i have another problem ... if i buy CDs for $44 per month, then .. will i have enough money to go to a festival this summer? it's not easy. but still, you cannot by far compare me with YOU. you probably earn now 4-5 times more than what i earn. this would be like ... me asking you to spend $300 per month on CDs. would you do that? no. and come on, you can't ask students to stop drinking ... that's painful!! 486120[/snapback] Indeet in eastern countries we get really too less money monika. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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