DETOX Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Basilisk please spend a couple of minutes and read the following steps. A) Deedrah has his own studio with all original hardware equipment and programs. Deedrah wakes up one day and he starts a bright new track in his studio. C) After one week he finishes the track and he is happy about it. D) He then decides that he wants to sell this track to a compilation because it would be good promotion for his upcoming album in some months. E) Before selling the track he goes to Sacem and registers the track under his name. F) He then contacts me and sends me the track and asks me if i am interested in releasing it. G) I receive the track,i listen to it,i like it and i answer to Deedrah that i want to sign it for my label. H) I send to Deedrah a contract between him (he is a registered artist paying taxes) and my label Exposure Productions (also a registered company paying taxes) where i state that my Exposure Productions offers to Deedrah an XXX ammount of money for the WORLDWIDE EXCLUSIVE LICENSE OF HIS TRACK IN ALL KINDS OF FORMAT BOTH PHYSICAL AND DIGITAL FOR THE NEXT 5 YEARS. I) Deedrah reads the contract and accepts it so he signs it and returns it to me including an invoice for the money i payed him for the track. FROM THIS MOMENT THE RIGHTS OF THE TRACK BELONG TO EXPOSURE PRODUCTIONS AND I CAN DO WHATEVER I WISH WITH THE TRACK EVEN KEEP IT FOR MY SELF FOR THE NEXT 5 YEARS AND DONT GIVE IT TO ANYONE.EVEN THE ARTIST DOESNT HAVE THE RIGHT TO PASS IT ON TO ANYONE. J) I wake up one morning and decide to include the Deedrah track into a compilation along with some other tracks by other artists. K) I master all tracks,i prepare artwork and i send the whole thing to the printing factory so it can print me 2000 copies. L) SACEM comes to me and asks me to pay the mechanical rights for the Deedrah track since its a registered one,i do that and then i get my 2000 copies from the printing factory. M) The cd is ready,i give it to my distributor and he provides it to various shops all around the world and some internet shops as well. N) People now can buy the cd in either their local record shop or through the internet and from the psyshops there.If my label has also a contract with some digital distribution company like iTunes then they can also download the compilation from there for a certain price. FROM THIS SPECIFIC MOMENT ANYONE WHO DOWNLOADS MY COMPILATION FROM ANY P2P PROGRAM LIKE KAZAA OR SOULSEEK OR AN FTP SERVER OR WHATEVER IS ACTING ILLEGALY.ANYONE WHO HAS A COPY OF MY COMPILATION WITHOUT OWNING THE ORIGINAL DISC IS ACTING ILLEGALY AND CAN BE PROSECUTED BY EITHER ME OR SACEM ORGANISATION OR THE COUNTRY AUTHORITIES IF THIS COUNTRY DOESNT ALLOW FREE DOWNLOADING OF ANY KIND OF RELEASE WHICH IS THE MAJORITY OF COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD. Is everything clear now?Are there any questions around? The fact that most people dont feel like stealing when they actually steal doesnt mean anything and this claim cant stand in any court when someone accuses you for illegal downloading. And please dont tell me that people dont know what they are doing,they know very good that they steal what they download THEY JUST DONT CARE BECAUSE ITS NOT EASY TO GET CAUGHT AND BECAUSE ITS EASY TO STEAL BEHIND YOUR COMPUTER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinos Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 FROM THIS SPECIFIC MOMENT ANYONE WHO DOWNLOADS MY COMPILATION FROM ANY P2P PROGRAM LIKE KAZAA OR SOULSEEK OR AN FTP SERVER OR WHATEVER IS ACTING ILLEGALY.ANYONE WHO HAS A COPY OF MY COMPILATION WITHOUT OWNING THE ORIGINAL DISC IS ACTING ILLEGALY AND CAN BE PROSECUTED BY EITHER ME OR SACEM ORGANISATION OR THE COUNTRY AUTHORITIES IF THIS COUNTRY DOESNT ALLOW FREE DOWNLOADING OF ANY KIND OF RELEASE WHICH IS THE MAJORITY OF COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD. 486278[/snapback] Then prosecute people. Try it. Try if it works. Oh, right, nobody gives a shit. The thing is, nobody cares. Nobody LOSES anything from downloading... because nothing is taken away from anybody. Simple as that. It's not a crime other than on paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETOX Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Cinos mate are you out of your mind? Dont i loose sales if people instead of buying they download my cds? Even if out of 1000 people who download just 50 of them would buy my cd in case they couldnt download it then this is serious money for any label specially for smaller ones. Sorry man but you must find some better argument than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahamut Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Downloading MP3s is not stealing. You cannot own music, you can only have exclusive copyrights to it. So it is not a question of stealing other people's property. In some countries, downloading MP3s that are shared without copyrightholder's permission (= a violation of copyrights, virtually anywhere in the world I think) is not a violation of copyrights. Like in the Netherlands, but I'm sure it goes for other EU countries too because it is not forbidden by EU guidelines. Here downloading MP3s is 'making a copy for private use'. Just like you are allowed to make a copy of a page from a copyrighted book. The source of the material you are copying (/downloading) from doesn't have to be legal. In other words, downloading an illegaly shared MP3 for private use is not forbidden, as long as you don't share with others. My personal opinion is not stated in the above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinos Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Cinos mate are you out of your mind? Dont i loose sales if people instead of buying they download my cds? Even if out of 1000 people who download just 50 of them would buy my cd in case they couldnt download it then this is serious money for any label specially for smaller ones. Sorry man but you must find some better argument than that. 486304[/snapback] No. Because nobody would buy your stuff without downloading being possible. You have it to thank for basically whatever little sales you make. And you still don't LOSE anything. You didn't have the money in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moni Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 i'm on DETOX's side here .. but that's about all, i don't have a "solution". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowball Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 imo its a sort of pr(public relations) a twisted one though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETOX Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 So CINOS i got to thank illegal downloading for most of the sales i am making? Why shouldnt i thank the artists that make good music and have build a reputation for themselves through time and various gigs all around the globe long time before illegal downloading existed?Why shouldnt i thank all the time and effort i am putting in the promotion of my label and my products through the internet,phone,private meetings,magazines,radio and more?Why shouldnt i thank the people who love this scene and music and prefer to buy original instead of downloading?Why shouldnt i thank my distributor for doing a great job and making available my products in most countries and internet shops possible?Why shouldnt i thank other labels that support me like i am supporting them? And most of all why shouldnt i thank Psyshop and Saikosounds and every other internet shop out there for making available up to 4 minutes demos on their websites which gives the option to people to check out a tune or a cd before buying it? Man you can always play with words and try to twist reality but the truth is out there and people can either choose to face it or ignore it on their own advantage. And please dont tell me that i dont loose money from illegal downloading because i didnt have them in the first place because you make me feel for you that you have never ever studied anything related with business management and marketing which i dont think is the case here. The only people who didnt have anything in the first place are these people who illegal download everyday music which labels and the artists working with them made available to them. By the way dear BAHAMUT the new European Constitution is changing every day concerning the matter of illegal downloading and copyrights trying to protect the artists and the music companies.I dont know how things worked so far in Netherlands or any other European country but in Greece i know from personal experience of a very close friend of mine that if they arrest you owning a copy of a music cd and you fail to prove that you have bought the original and you got it somewhere in your house then you end up in court and they sentence you to a small prison time or fine or both.Ofcourse like you said sharing or selling or trading any kind of downloaded or copied music is illegal in all around the world if i am not mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowball Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 in Greece i know from personal experience of a very close friend of mine that if they arrest you owning a copy of a music cd and you fail to prove that you have bought the original and you got it somewhere in your house then you end up in court and they sentence you to a small prison time or fine or both.Ofcourse like you said sharing or selling or trading any kind of downloaded or copied music is illegal in all around the world if i am not mistaken. 486325[/snapback] What?? OMG i am doomed!!!! i have like 100 copies around here, if i show them my collection of originals,will i get a chance of parole ? come on man,this is purely hypothetical stuff,its only de jure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETOX Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Snowball my friend got sentenced in 8 months in prison and a 1300 euros fine so i dont know where you see anything hypothetical in that. His case was also on couple of newspapers when they arrested him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowball Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Snowball my friend got sentenced in 8 months in prison and a 1300 euros fine so i dont know where you see anything hypothetical in that. His case was also on couple of newspapers when they arrested him. 486389[/snapback] wtf??? again wtf? *trying to believe it* you sure?maybe he was actually selling pirate cds?i mean every single dj i know,never ever goes to a gig with the originals,and most of the times they dont even own the originals,so i suppose bigger jails will need to be built!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETOX Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Snowball like i said my friend was sentenced and his case was on couple newspapers like Kathimerini and Ethnos so there is no question if this case is true or not. And no he was not selling pirate cds,someone from his neighbourhood with whom he had a fight went and said to the authorities that the guy is downloading illegal software,games and music and two policemen along with a prosecutor knocked the guys door one Friday morning and arrest him after they found out mp3s in his computer and on some copied cds.No need to mention that they also took his pc and his cd collection as proof. As simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowball Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Snowball like i said my friend was sentenced and his case was on couple newspapers like Kathimerini and Ethnos so there is no question if this case is true or not. And no he was not selling pirate cds,someone from his neighbourhood with whom he had a fight went and said to the authorities that the guy is downloading illegal software,games and music and two policemen along with a prosecutor knocked the guys door one Friday morning and arrest him after they found out mp3s in his computer and on some copied cds.No need to mention that they also took his pc and his cd collection as proof. As simple as that. 486422[/snapback] fucking bullshit man! this is outrageous!!! i am sorry for your friend,what has this world become!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 FROM THIS SPECIFIC MOMENT ANYONE WHO DOWNLOADS MY COMPILATION FROM ANY P2P PROGRAM LIKE KAZAA OR SOULSEEK OR AN FTP SERVER OR WHATEVER IS ACTING ILLEGALY.ANYONE WHO HAS A COPY OF MY COMPILATION WITHOUT OWNING THE ORIGINAL DISC IS ACTING ILLEGALY AND CAN BE PROSECUTED BY EITHER ME OR SACEM ORGANISATION OR THE COUNTRY AUTHORITIES IF THIS COUNTRY DOESNT ALLOW FREE DOWNLOADING OF ANY KIND OF RELEASE WHICH IS THE MAJORITY OF COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD. Dude you're so WRONG! It's very much legal to download any mp3s in many countries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETOX Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Traveller probably you didnt read correctly my post otherwise you would understand that i also mentioned that some countries allow the download of any kind of mp3's,its even in the passage you quoted mate By the way you said that many countries allow the download of any kind of mp3s,can you please mention ten countries for me,i only happen to know Finland just because you live there and you mention it many times hehe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahamut Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Do I have to copy/paste my previous post.....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETOX Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Bahamut i have even answered to your post so i dont think you need to repeat youself.Not for me at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Le Lotus Bleu Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 FROM THIS SPECIFIC MOMENT ANYONE WHO DOWNLOADS MY COMPILATION FROM ANY P2P PROGRAM LIKE KAZAA OR SOULSEEK OR AN FTP SERVER OR WHATEVER IS ACTING ILLEGALY.ANYONE WHO HAS A COPY OF MY COMPILATION WITHOUT OWNING THE ORIGINAL DISC IS ACTING ILLEGALY AND CAN BE PROSECUTED BY EITHER ME OR SACEM ORGANISATION OR THE COUNTRY AUTHORITIES IF THIS COUNTRY DOESNT ALLOW FREE DOWNLOADING OF ANY KIND OF RELEASE WHICH IS THE MAJORITY OF COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD. 486278[/snapback] ok so you're planning to lodge a complaint against all the people who have dl your compilation? i mean financially speaking can you afford such procedure? Did any country or sacem proceed to any actions when people were copying music on tape in order to solve the music industry? No. Will they do something against dl mp3; i don't know. Actually in France the situation is still ambiguous:officially it's forbidden but the governement can detect people who are dl unless they obtain cooperation from internet providers, thing that is , for the moment, totally impossible due to CNIL laws which says that the informations concerning a personn on a computer are strictly private & you need authorization from the personn. To sum up when you're with a provider it's like with a doctor there's the professionnal secret: they won't give the identity behind an ip address. Reality is that the majors have been totally overpass with the creation of the mp3 format & the risk of dl via internet furthermore they never did anything for preventing them from this. Since a few they've just realized it was possible to sell music via internet at a lower price in mp3 or alike format coz there was a demand but they're late that's all... Indeed there's a big probability that the future support of music will be immaterial & will replace current cds, actually we are at a level between two process & that's explaining why the situation is messy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Traveller probably you didnt read correctly my post otherwise you would understand that i also mentioned that some countries allow the download of any kind of mp3's,its even in the passage you quoted mate By the way you said that many countries allow the download of any kind of mp3s,can you please mention ten countries for me,i only happen to know Finland just because you live there and you mention it many times hehe. 486426[/snapback] woops my bad, sorry most countries forbid sharing but I don't think actual downloading is illegal almost anywhere.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahamut Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 I dont know how things worked so far in Netherlands 486325[/snapback] It works like I said. Nobody here has been proscecuted for downloading MP3s or owning copies of CDs, because it is not illegal for the reasons I stated...this has been confirmed by Dutch government and in jurisdiction. I think this is also the case in other countries but I can't tell you exactly which ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinos Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Nobody with the least spark of intellect will ever get sentenced for filesharing unless it becomes legal to monitor by detail everybody's internet activity. Which it isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin OOOD Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Nobody with the least spark of intellect will ever get sentenced for filesharing unless it becomes legal to monitor by detail everybody's internet activity. Which it isn't. 486445[/snapback] Sorry Cinos. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oopie Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 I think sharing things in digital form is absolutely wonderful. There's no pollution when there's no material form of the music. And it also gives many people chance to hear music they'd otherwise miss! I wouldn't have heard all those obscure old goa 12 inches if it wasn't for sharing. Sharing... what a wonderful word. giving, taking, sharing... yes, yes, YES! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cangrejo Posted March 5, 2006 Author Share Posted March 5, 2006 Good point But then you won't get a lot of gigs, will you? 486177[/snapback] Good point. Now if you would release the music to the public in the form of mp3s you'd solve that problem too. Cangrejo labels PAY the artists to get their music and release it so if you download the music from the net instead of buying it then this means that you steal the labels. Its not a matter of explanation but a matter of logic either you like it or not. So the artist creates his music and he decides whether to offer it for free to the people or not,from the moment he sells it to a label then this means that the rights of the track for a limited time belong to the label and noone else has the right to sell or give away for free this track to anyone. As simple as that. 486081[/snapback] Maybe the time has come to remove the middle hands... I though it was about supporting the artists.....not the labels...! 486013[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goazzz... Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Snowball my friend got sentenced in 8 months in prison and a 1300 euros fine so i dont know where you see anything hypothetical in that. His case was also on couple of newspapers when they arrested him. 486389[/snapback] I haven't heard of this....but the Greek authorities have to get rid of the people (tous maurous) selling cd copies all over Greece first and then they should try to find the individual people who just d/l music and they don't make any profit of it...! About your friend's case i'm sure he's the first one he had this kind of trouble in this country...! I'm sorry for him...! And since the court's decision cannot be the final one, he might be declared innocent, or pay less in the next trial(efesh), that he'll be stupid if he doesn't ask for one..! All in all, just think where you live...! In Greece...the country of chaos...!! You really think there will be more cases like your friend's in the next 5 years...? I doupt about it.....Anyhow...nobody will stop d/l because someone got arrested in Greece, that was sniched from his neighboor, and the final trial haven't took place yet...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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