Colin OOOD Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 to Colin: I eat bread, but I don't feed the wheat. I don't think cows should be milked. It's painful (This is a joke comment. Please don't get mad at me for it. Sure, the milk part isn't a joke, but that's a whole different story) 487259[/snapback] When you buy bread, a proportion of what you spend goes back to the farmer who grew the wheat. So yes, you do 'feed the wheat'. Do you like drinking milk? Then feed the fucking cow. If you don't value what I - and people like me - do with our time then please, feel free not to listen to it. You are not special, and we won't miss you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETOX Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 So dear CANGREJO you just aggreed with me that your problem is not really giving money to businessmen but whether you can get their goods without paying for them or not.So you still buy products from lets say Sony and Intel and Nike (because like you said your life wouldnt be like you wanted to if you didnt) because you dont have a choice with them BUT you download your music instead of buying it just because you got the chance to do it since its easy and cheap to get an internet line and download anything you want plus there is almost zero risk of getting caught.You got a point when you indirectly admit that its easier to download an mp3 than stealing a Sony television set (just because you cant download it) from an electronics store BUT THE MAJOR IDEA OF YOU STEALING SOMETHING REMAINS THE SAME MATE AND THAT EITHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT (AND EVEN IF YOU CARE OR NOT) MAKES YOU A THIEF. I know that this might sound bad but sorry mate this is the truth. Now concerning labels and artists they both work really hard and they both deserve lot more of money and attention than they get.And trust me you dont have a clue how hard it is to operate a label mate otherwise you wouldnt say that 'artists work lot harder than the labels but still make less money from them'.You are just speculating here my friend. And please dont tell me that you are going to send any money to any artist out there,you didnt even bought a beer for any of them so far like you admitted in one of your earlier posts Seems like you dont value correctly the things that you like my friend,just spend some time and think things over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 I think my original point was lost here, but I'll try another shot into the dark. It still isn't "stealing" to download commercially-released music. It's "downloading"... certainly not "piracy", which is more akin to what happens when shady characters burn CDs and go sell them for profit. With downloading, there is no profit motive. This is far beyond the spectrum of legal and illegal, into the ambiguities of copyright law and so-called intellectual property. What kinds of information fall under the domain of intellectual property anyway? It doesn't seem like an intuitive concept that human beings are willing to accept, as evidence shows. The recording industry itself is only a hundred years old - perhaps the proportion of music released by traditional means has to change to reflect shifting consumer habits. No amount of "copy kills your music" propaganda is going to change what people do, after all. Record labels sell a combination of physical and immaterial goods, but they are losing their hold on the information of their trade. Does anyone seriously think they can reverse the tide? I think it's about time for an attitude adjustment... those who won't submit to the new reality are just going to get left behind. For the record I own all Exposure releases except for the Punk City single, which I considered somewhat frivolous. Grey Area is on order. It's still on order, even after I saw someone put up the wave files on a popular file sharing hub. I only would have purchased Sabotage if I had been forced to rely solely on samples at the shop. Detox, I think you run a good ship, and I have a small inkling of understanding regarding just how much work goes into it... but I think you're fighting a losing battle here on psynews. I say don't waste your time - some people will always be cheap ("thrifty"), others merely argumentive or self-righteous - so get back to what you do best uncommonly good full-on compilations and some dope-ass Wizzy beats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETOX Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Dear BASILISK despite the fact that i am a fan of the Megaman series and that i appreciate a lot your good words towards my label and the fact that you purchased most of my releases i got to disaggree with you on the stealing and downloading issue hope that this wont make you cancel your Grey Area order So though you described really well the term piracy (which doesnt have a lot to do with our small scene since i dont think that many people make copies of psy trance music and sell it through the net or on the streets) i got to disaggree with you on the downloading issue.For me there is legal and illegal downloading and although their is a lot of debating taking place all around the globe concerning this issue and even the laws dont exactly specify whats going on (since technology moves faster than the law system in our days) i still insist and think that people more or less know whats going on and they just act according to how they understand or they want to understand things. Characterising illegal downloading as stealing might sound really bad but it is an illegal action indeed.Some people might not think that stealing a car and downloading illegaly an mp3 is the same thing but for me both actions are stealing something from someone with the only difference that a car is something physical while an mp3 is just a file on the internet.This is exactly where things get complicated and where the debate begins,so while you believe that downloading illegaly an mp3 is just downloading i on the other side believe that this is a theft,the funny thing is that we both can come up with a million of explanations to support our thesis simply because like i said before technology moves faster than the human law and even human understanding i dare to say. So like wisely you said labels and the industry has to adjust on this new data but also the people got to adopt a different attitude towards music because i am afraid that a precious art like music has became in our days 'another queued mp3 file on download accelerator'.YES the labels got to change BUT also the people got to change too. Thats all i had to say for tonight i guess,time to get back to my ship and prepare the tracklist for my next compilation plus to finish the deal with Gabriel from Blue Planet Corporation concerning his upcoming album Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Now that's fantastic news! I think you misinterpret my lack of comment on the legal/illegal spectrum regarding download, but the point is minor. I'll leave everyone this quote from another Greek "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." - Plato Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETOX Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 I always knew that Plato was a fan of my label LOL Great quote indeed Basilisk which in fact summarises all my words (more or less) in this thread concerning the mp3 issue,those ancient Greek philosophers were wise indeed unlike the modern Greek society unfortunately. Nice one indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amphiton Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 [offtopic] In really hope BPC isn't producing full on these days, even if it's a-class Exposure-style full on... his track @ VA - Refresh was really great and that's how I see his new album. Any info, Detox? [/offtopic] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETOX Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 The only thing that i can say is that Gabriel will not dissapoint you with another full on come back like many great artists of the past are doing in our days. His album will be 100% psychedelic trance including also some more progressive tunes and ofcourse some ambient stuff,i wish i could share his new stuff with you but i guess you have to wait a little bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amphiton Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 The only thing that i can say is that Gabriel will not dissapoint you with another full on come back like many great artists of the past are doing in our days. His album will be 100% psychedelic trance including also some more progressive tunes and ofcourse some ambient stuff,i wish i could share his new stuff with you but i guess you have to wait a little bit. 487421[/snapback] Will he sing and produce a track with Michele Adamson? j/k... well, will have to wait End of 2006, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbierabbit Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 If I may--and this is coming from someone who's seen this kind of argument every friggin' week for the past however long--say so, then the simple problem is that with mp3s, nobody gives a fuck about being called a thief. Basic morality, indoctrined ethics, they just don't work. It was the same with illegal cable channels. Tip the cable guy twenty bucks and get five times more shit to choose from. As long as people don't feel ashamed for downloading files illegaly--and I'm stressing the word illegaly--there's nothing the music industry can do about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cangrejo Posted March 7, 2006 Author Share Posted March 7, 2006 When you buy bread, a proportion of what you spend goes back to the farmer who grew the wheat. So yes, you do 'feed the wheat'. Do you like drinking milk? Then feed the fucking cow. If you don't value what I - and people like me - do with our time then please, feel free not to listen to it. You are not special, and we won't miss you. 487347[/snapback] Say that to everyone and *poof* your small income becomes nothing. How's that? Seriously man, I was clearly typing that it was a joke but you take me dead seriously. It's quite annoying. And I do value what you do, that's what I tried to explain in the earlier thread, only that I tried explaining two things at once, which caused lots of misunderstandings, no matter how many times I tried to explain it. However, I value all types of work the same, except for the farmers, which I value higher, because they help EVERYONE. If everyone would share their work, we would have to work VERY LITTLE, and then we could MAKE MUSIC all the time we want. Do you understand what I mean? I really love music and I want it to be a BIG part of society, like every other interests. And I know that it's a hard time for artists today, especially in the smaller scenes like psytrance. But I'm saying that and it's just THEORETICALLY there is a better form of society. The reason I'm not buying records today is that I'm too cheap to do it, and that I can download mp3s. Plus I've only listened to psytrance for a year or so so I don't really know what I like and not, and I don't want to buy lots of CDs just to buy it. I don't even know if I want to support the artists, because most of them spend lots of money on drugs, which I think is a bad thing. I know other genres do this too, probably more than in the psytrance scene, and I don't buy any CDs from them either. Some artists have too much money and some have too little, while they work the same amount of time. It's bullshit and that's my final point on this. What I said in the other thread that artists "should make $0 for each track" was just in THEORY if everyone was EQUAL and everyone helped. I guess you can say it's a communist way of thinking and I'm not sure if you understand it. I'm sorry that I pissed you off and that it caused so many hard feelings. I'll maybe buy one of your CDs to make it up to you. That Voice of Cod CD isn't half bad. I'm sorry for all the misunderstandings, on both sides. You don't have to reply to this because I won't read this thread again. It's done. Send me a PM if something's unclear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 another thing i could add about mp3 and how good or bad it is - there are lots of people who came into this "scene" not so long ago, imagine if newcommer slowly explores all sides of goa and psy and really enjoys oldschool and todays psytrance, now its obvious that he cant afford to buy oldschool stuff, he has to choose which ones to buy - psytrance being released today or skip it and seek for oldschool? if you cant afford them both then my suggestion is to buy todays releases and download oldschool OOP's, offcourse if you can find cheap oldschool then way to go buy them too, otherwise its fuking hard and practically difficult to catch up 10+ years of music... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinos Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 You can't milk the cows without feeding them, no... which is exactly what many artists and labels try - they release the same shit over and over... verrrry low-quality nourishment. And so they don't get money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETOX Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 So according to CINOS and CANGREJO words most of the artists out there are just lazy and drug addict people who make shitty music on their spare time and make lot of money out of gigs while getting fucked by their labels who get all the cash in the end. CANGREJO mate i understand that this discussion became to difficult for you to handle (judging by your words which contradict each other on every post you make by first saying that artists shouldnt get payed at all,then admitting that you would better buy a beer for an artist than buy his cd,then admitting that you have never ever bought any beer for any artist,then saying that you would probably send money directly to artists but then again you think twice and say that you are not really sure about it,then saying that artists spend a lot of money on drugs so you wont finance them and bla bla bla...) so i tottally understand why you want to stop responding anymore in this thread.Not to mention the lack of seriousness in your other remarks which include more or less your desire to change the structure of the whole planet in order for you to buy a cd.By the way have you ever thought of moving to China?They havent yet moved completely to capitalism so you might enjoy some time there with the communists left. CINOS mate it seems to me that you also run out of some usefull things to say so i guess you should follow CANGREJO example and stop replying in this thread P.S REGER trust me the problem with mp3s and downloading hasnt got to do anything with people that want to download 4 and 5 years old releases which more or less are not still available for sale,the main discussion here moves around people who download all the latest releases and even promos from cds that are not out in the market yet but somehow end up on various ftps and P2P programs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 most of the artists out there are just lazy and drug addict people who make shitty music on their spare time and make lot of money out of gigs while getting fucked by their labels who get all the cash in the end. That's pretty much how I see it too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jikkenteki Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 I find it surprising that no-one seems to realize that a large percentage of the label owners are also in fact artists too. So I guess they are all stealing from themselves too.. damn label owners..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin OOOD Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 stuff 487904[/snapback] Cangrejo you contradict yourself, confuse things by saying "this part of what I say isn't a joke"... "this part was actually a joke and you took it seriously"... "most artists spend all their money on drugs so I'm going to download their tunes" - dude, I don't even drink; any other crass generalisations you want to make? You have made me lose interest in anything you have to say. I don't mind saying that your opinion is worthless to me - not least because you seem to have problems deciding what it is from moment to moment. Oh, and I have no intention of asking other people not to listen to my music, in fact this is the first time I've done it. But then, this is the first time I've had a conversation like this with anyone who is proud to say that they enjoy the fruits of other's creativity without offering anything in exchange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapinho Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Colin, I bought your album, can we be friends now? I also downloaded it first, after having read Damions review. Then I deleted the downloaded album because it took up space @ my computer and I got the original one, now. I for one think it's way cooler to have original albums, must be the collecter in me. Plus they sound so much better than mp3s. But I admit (and theres no argument against this, because it refers to ME) that I have downloaded stuff. Not all of that I have paid for. Btw, anyone remember Boom! records? They put out quite a few albums but after a while they quit, because people were downloading A LOT but not buying shit. That's the sad part about this. But, well, for me downloading helps a lot. And no, its not the same listening to lo-bit saikosounds samples... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 P.S REGER trust me the problem with mp3s and downloading hasnt got to do anything with people that want to download 4 and 5 years old releases which more or less are not still available for sale,the main discussion here moves around people who download all the latest releases and even promos from cds that are not out in the market yet but somehow end up on various ftps and P2P programs. 488127[/snapback] yes, in that case i say - if you like that music then buy it ASAP and dont make lame excuses... as for unrlzd killarghs - i think its labels own problem/fault, who else except label, artists have free access to unrlsd tunes? reviewers? then send promos only to reliable persons, or even better - we need professional reviewers then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoebis Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Btw, anyone remember Boom! records? They put out quite a few albums but after a while they quit, because people were downloading A LOT but not buying shit. That's the sad part about this. But, well, for me downloading helps a lot. And no, its not the same listening to lo-bit saikosounds samples... 488675[/snapback] Ouch, did they officially stop? that sucks, they had some great releases... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonflier Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 I don't even know if I want to support the artists, because most of them spend lots of money on drugs, which I think is a bad thing. I know other genres do this too, probably more than in the psytrance scene, and I don't buy any CDs from them either. Some artists have too much money and some have too little, while they work the same amount of time. It's bullshit and that's my final point on this. 487904[/snapback] Yep, that makes sense. Oh yeah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svolk Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 Freedom of information I say. First of all a succesful and talented artist will not stay hungry so the labels and record companies are probably more interested in all this fight against mp3 than the artists themselves. I personally think that artist should "persuade" me that his product is GOOD for me to buy it. Additionally surprisingly people in different countries earn different amounts of money, while the prices of CD's are the same so... And finally we have US and Europe to buy all the original stuff, don't we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowball Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 I don't even know if I want to support the artists, because most of them spend lots of money on drugs, which I think is a bad thing. I know other genres do this too, probably more than in the psytrance scene, and I don't buy any CDs from them either. Some artists have too much money and some have too little, while they work the same amount of time. It's bullshit and that's my final point on this. 487904[/snapback] WTF man ? you dont like the fact that the artists may put use to your money to buy drugs,so you dont buy the originals.BUT you download them ?? totally hypocrite imo,if you think that they take drugs and you dont agree then dont listen to the music at all,dont hide behind your finger... maybe you also think that you are doing a good thing to them,cz if you dont buy,they will have less money and use less drugs...Total bullshit imo....this is the lamest argument i have heard in ages how the hell do you know that the money you give to the supermarket when you buy milk and bread wont go to drug use?at least you can have the balls and say i download because i dont give a shit about the artists...not this bullshit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETOX Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 Freedom of information I say. Freedom of information? Of what information? I thought that music was ART and not any information or just a digital thing that you can have in your pc. Unfortunately some people are so confused and uneducated out there..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svolk Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 First of all music technically is information and let me expose that horrible secret it is a digital stuff (even on the CD I think). Let me also point that only a very small percent of the stuff released can really be called ART (with the capital A, R, T) the majority is more like entertainemnt I guess. If it's ART I don't see a reason why it should be more easily accessible to people who have the money than to those who don't. Oh... and maybe you wanna come and educate me? I think it will be a great idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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