DETOX Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 Guys 8000 dollars is indeed a big sum of money but if someone spended this money in lets say 10 years for his whole music collection spectrum thats roughly 800 dollars a year which is 65-70 dollars a month which is the money one can spend on a monthly basis for either his cell phone account,cable tv,fast access internet,various hobbies,buying video games or whatever. I mean other people spend 100 euros a month to follow their favorite team wherever they play while other spend 50 euro for cable tv or other 60-70 euro for super duper fast internet connection. All the above are hobbies or interests and so its music but the thing is that u cant download cable tv or fast internet or the feeling of being into a football match but on the other side even though music is also a hobby or even a passion it is downloadable so thats why people dont spend their money on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smith Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 I think sharing mp3s is part of the scene. A lot of psytrancers share and thats a fact - it promotes the artist. In a fair world the artist should see some of the cash but I believe that the artist isnt in the music making industry to just make money. I mean if the bottom fell out of the psytrance industry and noone made money, i believe that we'd still get music made, and available to the listeners. Playing live is where the cash lies - if an artist is serious about making music, then thats where he or she will divert their attention to. Sharing mp3s promotes the artist and makes people want to come to see them live and pay for the privalege. Id pay to see someone live as its a totally different experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moni Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 Where is the best place to download anyway? Or is that off limits to ask 485764[/snapback] yep, that's pretty much off limits. Thats why i am saying that people download just because they can do it and i even claim sometimes that even if cds costed something like 5 euros each people again would download and would come and say 'Why should i spend 100 euros on music when i can buy a new T Shirt?'. Bloody human nature and mind... 485797[/snapback] yes, people download because they can do it, freely. it's a fact, the rest has to be built around it, at least untill someone will actually make downloading impossible. to be honest, if CDs costed 5 Eur, i personally would buy more CDs. but you cannot generalise ... a person who earns like 200 Eur/month would probably say: with the price of 2 CDs i'll buy some food, some jeans and a shirt for my kid. it's all about priorities, that's why you cannot generalise. each has their own financial situation and priorities. I know, but 8000$ are 8000$. 485805[/snapback] to some people it takes 2 years (or more) of work to make 8000$. how many months does it take to the Journey Man to make 8000$? i bet it's not longer than 4 months. so you cannot generalise! you can generalise this though: people download cause it's for free. and paying a ticket to the party IS supporting the scene. even if it doesn't justify downloading, you cannot exclude the fact that people are making parties & gigs possible. i am not proud of downloading, and i don't recommend it, but i'm guilty. but i also buy. so i chose a middle way. and i think it is working fine. and a last question ... considering how big the scene is (with all genres and subgenres) .. how much can a person buy according to their will? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moni Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 i forgot to say that .. sadly, there are also a lot of people who just think that downloading is the only way: "why should i buy when i can download? i don't need to have the original CD, a good quality mp3 is fine." that's nasty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 Not everyone is rich Detox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goazzz... Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 Well i can't say i've spent 8000e in parties but i've supported almost all artists by going to their gigs and paying rediculous prices in entrance fees...! As moni said this doesn't justifying the d/l thing but it's a big support to the artists, especially some years back, when gms were just kids starting their career, twisted guys were not god entities yet etc...! I'm no saint, i know, i'm also guilty for d/l music, but i believe i've also supported artists in my own way..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moni Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 i think that if it weren't for "download" ... considering how big the scene is these days ... many people would just check out the parties announcements and flyers and say: " who the fuck are these guys in the line-up?" i mean, come on, people don't hang out on saikosounds all day long to search for new good music. it's just the fact! nothing more .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smith Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 i think that if it weren't for "download" ... considering how big the scene is these days ... many people would just check out the parties announcements and flyers and say: " who the fuck are these guys in the line-up?" 485873[/snapback] trite but true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goazzz... Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 " who the fuck are these guys in the line-up?" 485873[/snapback] That's how it used to be 10 years ago.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moni Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 That's how it used to be 10 years ago.... 485877[/snapback] i bet there were also less parties and less festivals then, than there are now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goazzz... Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 i bet there were also less parties and less festivals then, than there are now. 485878[/snapback] Festivals for sure....parties there were some, cause it was Goa's big bang then, but nothing compared to now...! At least me, i had no clue about the music of the guy i was going to listen to, simply cause there was no mean of information...! I didn't even have a pc in 95.....Info was only from some magazines and from mouth to mouth....! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETOX Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 SMITH i dont know in which world you are living mate but in my world there are some stupid people like me who own companies that are called LABELS.Seems like though that in your world there are just trancers,party promoters and artists,whats the name of that planet? Dear MONI indeed like you said each person has his own financial situation and that is totally accepted and respected,i mean i dont expect from someone living in Serbia or Russia to buy the same as someone living in Greece or Italy and ofcourse the same applies for Greeks and Italians who obviously have smaller buying ability than someone living in Scandinavian countries or USA or Japan.Ofcourse when someone living in Greece lets say and earns 700-800 euros a month and owns a 50 euro per month ADSL line and downloads all day like crazy and decides to spend his money on more coffee on sunny days,more drugs in parties,more money on getting new clothes every week then something is wrong there dont you think?And unfortunately thats the Greek reality and not only if you ask me.People just dont buy music not because they are short of cash but like i said before because they can download it instead of buying so this leaves them spare cash to invest on other things which are not vital to them but still they like them but cant download them so they pay for them. Also people shouldnt connect much paying an entrance fee to a party with buying an original cd,yes there is a connection but not always and even when the connection is there usually it isnt a very important one. The main question for you dear MONI though is not how much people are willing and are able to spend BUT HOW MUCH THEY NEED TO SPEND cause there are people out there (and thats the majority) who download 5-6 albums a day,i mean this is just ridiculus since i cant understand how people listen to all this music every day.I personally think that a normal person should be happy with something like 10-15 cds a month because like this he has time to evaluate them and appreciate them correctly.And if people bought 3-4 cds a month then this would be lovely for everyone and healthy for the scene if you ask me. And dear GNOME you dont need to be rich in order to buy couple a discs a month and spend 20-30 euros on them,like you dont have to be rich to spend 50 euro on coffees a month or even further 150 euros a month on drugs like the majority does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 one more point i wanna add.... even tho i hav an original CD ... i rip it... jus because i listen music mosty on my PC.. and i prefer a nice colletion of mp3s.. rather than changin CDs after evry fuckin hour.. so most of my CDs r idle ... thats the reason i prefer mp3s.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goazzz... Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 Off topic, but in Italy they earn minimum the double salaries a month than Greece, i know from experience...! Detox, also if you earn 800e a month here you're quite lucky cause most people don't earn more than 600e for a common permanent 5-days a week job...! I earn 800e and i work 6 days a week, 10hrs min, weekends/holidays included..... Sorry for being off topic...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moni Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 well, "dear" DETOX .. i guess paying a party ticket isn't a support for labels. unless the label organises the party, like Twisted did last night. i heard it was packed. but new labels cannot achieve this level so early (maybe just with luck). so from this point of view i understand you. i aggree that some people could buy more, but the initiative has to come from them. there are people and people. you cannot just see it black and white. i still do wonder how things would be if it weren't for "download". i can imagine a way smaller scene, way more underground, fewer labels, fewer artists, and way more "regional". well, unless you'd get MTV involved or something similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 oh well ive said it many times, will say it again : try before you buy is ok if record is rare and costs more than new one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 what's worse, eating dead children or downloading mp3s? when the quality of this scene went to zero I started downloading. i mean let's face it, 99% of releases out there are rubbish. only labels that don't require prelistening are twisted and g+. thou i usually dl their releases too cos that's how i get em the quickest. then i'll include them in my next order later on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ktrance Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 I dont download. Never. For me it is more of a moral choice. No matter what excuse you use it is still stealing, and I dont steal, period. One question for Journey Man, DETOX and others that dont download: Have you paid for all the software that sitting on your pc now? Just curious. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moni Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 what's worse, eating dead children or downloading mp3s? 485901[/snapback] downloading mp3s, obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 One question for Journey Man, DETOX and others that dont download: Have you paid for all the software that sitting on your pc now? 485902[/snapback] now thats an interestin question.... waitin for answers.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 downloading mp3s, obviously. 485903[/snapback] all is good then. anyone want dessert? ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moni Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 No matter what excuse you use it is still stealing, and I dont steal, period. 485902[/snapback] ok, since you mentioned "stealing" .. i have a thing on my mind. when albums and compilations get released, the first tool (or let's call it the main tool) that is used for selling them is ... the internet. promotion and sales are done through internet. and this internet thingie has a bug: it contains this feature called "download". so until someone comes up with a better way, people have a choice: to download, to buy, or both. it's like you know that in your town, street X is full of thiefs, but you want/have to use that particular street to get to your destination. so what do you do in this case? you hope and you try to find a solution to get by, you try to make the thiefs on this street let you or help you get to your destination. it's not fair, of course, but as long as it exists, you have to deal with it. again, i don't encourage downloading, but it exists and this cannot be ignored. plus, as i stated earlier, to some extent, downloading brings also advantages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 i don't consider downloading stealing.. it's more like borrowing as long as you actually try to buy an album every now and then.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ktrance Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 it's like you know that in your town, street X is full of thiefs, but you want/have to use that particular street to get to your destination. so what do you do in this case? you hope and you try to find a solution to get by, you try to make the thiefs on this street let you or help you get to your destination. it's not fair, of course, but as long as it exists, you have to deal with it. Excuse me but is without a doubt the lamest excuse I have heard yet. My version: Its like you know in your town shop X is a long way to go, you dont want to walk so you pick up you trusty screwdriver and steal a car. I mean it has to be good for something right? The car manufacturer get to sell another car. Bottom line, it is not legally yours, and still you take it for yourself, I think that comes pretty close to the definition of "stealing". Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 Bottom line, it is not legally yours, and still you take it for yourself, I think that comes pretty close to the definition of "stealing". It's perfectly legal to download mp3s in many countries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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