I am angry

[Basilisk]

I WANT HUGE PSYCHEDELIC TRANCE: MFG FIRST 3 ALBUMS ARE PERFECT

557733[/snapback]

Easily the most insightful comment yet.

 

When was there ever slower music on the mainstage in this scene?

 

If the scene is narrowminded when it comes to tempo it has been since day one, atleast thats what I recon.

 

557762[/snapback]

No. Right in the early days of electronic music the BPM was down below 120... read any article on early UK or San Francisco scenes and they will note the association with the speed of the heartbeat in the womb. This was thought to be the proper speed to guide people into a sacred inner space... surprisingly, this was thought of as fast at the time (at least by the reporters in the various articles I've read).

 

As for modern times, the elementary struggle over tempo fetishism is fucking idiotic... but it is the same force that strives for homogeny of style. Part of the reason that I have begun to hold events once again is precisely due to these feelings of disgust that Elysium and others express in this thread. Not only is there room for slower music on the main stage of a festival, in my view, it is a requirement. There is no journey without storytelling, and no storytelling when the festivals want peak sounds at all times.

 

It is as if trance isn't trance any more... it is the new hard dance. Captain Tinrib gave up the goose and Spun Records moved in to fill the void. From my perspective here in Canada, the trends and fads of Europe completely boggle my mind. There is only one thing to do... DIY!

[Jikkenteki]

As for modern times, the elementary struggle over tempo fetishism is fucking idiotic... but it is the same force that strives for homogeny of style. .......Not only is there room for slower music on the main stage of a festival, in my view, it is a requirement. There is no journey without storytelling, and no storytelling when the festivals want peak sounds at all times.

557850[/snapback]

Ain't that the truth. If an organizer asks me what the bpms of my trance tracks are for a live set now-a-days I simply say "about 145 on average" cuz if I tell them a large number of my tracks are around 140 and sometimes even as low as 120, they freak out and are like "hmmm, maybe it won't work on the mainstage". The irony is that if you have a bit of a beatless intro and then shift into these tracks noone notices the difference anyways and often the crowd is going at it harder in these tracks because they aren't having to "sprint" so hard in the dance department.

[Guest Elysium]

i agree... do you still produce goa Chris? cause if we're talking about the HOLM AND ANDERSEN affair that's prog isin't it? i don't think i need to tell you that

557723[/snapback]

 

hmmmm mate you are too lazy or too slow today

 

Read the posts. Does it mention Holm & Andersen anywhere?

 

Nope i did not do goa with Elysium for a long time. Probably never if you ask me what to label my own music. I just did what was inside of me. Goa, psy, tribal - whatever you like to call it. And as I wrote in an earlier post here, Elysium has never been progressive beside a remix under the Elysium Project name. Elysium has always been tribal, ethnic, atmospheric etc. That never changed over the 13 years.

 

So nope we are not talking progressive here or Holm & Andersen. We are talking about Elysium and a Elysium liveset that contained all the old tracks remixed into live versions and up to date sound quality + a lot of new material (again you misunderstood the concept of Elysium's liveset Anoebis. It was very much old-school and all the old tracks too).

But it was just not "fast" enough for the speed hungry organisers.

 

 

@ Basilisk. Spot on !

[furthur]

We spent 18 months on that album; poured our heart and souls into it; sometimes though it feels like it was all for nothing.  Why should we bother if people don't want to hear it?

556580[/snapback]

Did you ever stop to think that maybe a lot of the people that like this music (music I consider interesting enough to listen to at home, and not just party music), might be sick of parties. Maybe they don't go out to parties, because they are sick of the drug-frenzied people, of the boring music there, etc. etc.

Yes, I realize that it is a vicious circle. Certain people get bored of the music at parties, stop going, and there is even less music they would find appealing played at parties, so they go even less.

 

The above does not even apply to me, because I still go to parties to see my friends and to catch that possible glimpse of interesting music. Sometimes, it turns out to be more than a glimpse.

 

The way I see it, the less an artist focuses on his music being fit for a party, the more interesting the music becomes.

[Oopie]

Here in Finland we have fantastic scene!

 

The music is the best that comes out these days and people are just packed with helpful and positive spirit!

 

I organised a party and not a single performer asked for a dime. We do it because we love the music, love to styge. The experience of playing/performing is fulfilling enough itself.

 

Also the place we used was free of charge. It did burn few days later though

[Symphoid]

Thing is, Basilisk, it's very easy to say "just don't work with these people" but often you only find out what sort of person they are when it's too late.  Kris and Andy's recent rants have both found resonance in what I've been thinking and feeling of late too... there is such a limited range of music at most festivals and parties that acts which are just slightly different from the mainsream like Voice of Cod - who released what was supposedly one of the better albums of 2005 - have no bookings whatsoever at any parties or festivals outside our own country this year (and only one coming up in the UK) despite repeated promotional mailouts to organisers by our management and personal contacts from ourselves. We spent 18 months on that album; poured our heart and souls into it; sometimes though it feels like it was all for nothing.  Why should we bother if people don't want to hear it?

556580[/snapback]

that makes me sad, i completely understand

[Oopie]

that makes me sad, i completely understand

558050[/snapback]

the existance of your music is a reward already

 

I think there's only one reason why your music has not been released yet:

 

you're too lazy to dig out the label =p

 

http://www.discogs.com/label/City+Centre+Offices

 

this could be ideal!

[Tatsu]

Interesting topic... I've allready read some comments by Colin about his problems of getting gigs. I really don't know what to do about it or what the reasons are for this. In your case the only thing I can imagine (besides the general point that maybe you lack friends in the right positions) is that organiser maybe still think you would play either your old goa tracks or your stuff from the Holm & Andersen project and either of them fit their concept. Doesn't give them the right to treat you like shit of course...

 

From what I understand you don't have these problems with Holm & Andersen. As sad it might sound but then you really better concentrate on this project and enjoy what you get there instead of being frustrated with the psyscene. If there's a demand (or if you feel inspired) of your Elysium music you can restart working on new stuff. But imho it's better to enjoy what you have (and to me it seems that you are so lucky to have another more successfull project in your pockets) than to get fed up more and more about what you can't have. I remember several old comments about you dislike certain elements of the psyscene, and since you are an old-timer who is around since the beginning, maybe it is really time to move on. I wish you a lot of luck for it!

[Time_Trap]

Here in Finland we have fantastic scene!

 

The music is the best that comes out these days and people are just packed with helpful and positive spirit!

 

I organised a party and not a single performer asked for a dime. We do it because we love the music, love to styge. The experience of playing/performing is fulfilling enough itself.

 

Also the place we used was free of charge. It did burn few days later though

558036[/snapback]

 

If it's also free cops it sounds like psygoa paradise.

[Snapinho]

Here in Finland we have fantastic scene!

 

The music is the best that comes out these days and people are just packed with helpful and positive spirit!

 

I organised a party and not a single performer asked for a dime. We do it because we love the music, love to styge. The experience of playing/performing is fulfilling enough itself.

 

Also the place we used was free of charge. It did burn few days later though

558036[/snapback]

I've always thought Finland has the best and most open-minded scene, although I've never been there. Most online, free available albums posted by the artists themselves are Finnish. I'm thinking Electro Fluoro Punx and Troll Scientists, can't think of another name right now... Same goes for the music; wild, innovative, original, freaky and out-of-the-box. I love it!

[D3lirious]

Sadly the scene in Finland IMO isn´t as good as the picture painted up here says. There are problems here just as there are everywhere... As soon as we started organizing parties I got a clearer picture of it

There are wonderful people here too ofcourse

 

@ Opie

 

It´s pretty simple if you keep the parties small (and if nothing goes wrong) but as soon as the costs and time layed down on it rise...You´ll really know who you can trust and who you can´t. Who is responsible, takes care of things etc..

[D3lirious]

I've always thought Finland has the best and most open-minded scene, although I've never been there. Most online, free available albums posted by the artists themselves are Finnish. I'm thinking Electro Fluoro Punx and Troll Scientists, can't think of another name right now... Same goes for the music; wild, innovative, original, freaky and out-of-the-box. I love it!

558206[/snapback]

Electro Fluoro Punx is the name of Aavepyörä´s album

[DETOX]

All is falling down since very young,naive,selfish,greedy and arrogant people discovered that its very easy to start a label and release whatever even without paying the artists,very easy to buy two cdjs and pretend to be a DJ playing unreleased mp3s easy found on the net and cheap downloaded using an ADSL line,relatively easy to buy a computer and download some programs and start making 'music' and naming yourself an artist,easy to set up a 'party' and if nothing goes well to just dissapear and dont pay anyone and other various stuff like that.

 

Wherever you look today you see djs and artists,party organisers,label managers,booking and promotion agents and psy trance experts.

 

Every day i wake up and visit psyshop just to discover that another 2-3 new labels were established somewhere in Israel and Russia releasing music from people i have never ever heard of despite the fact that i am listening to this music for something like 6-7 years now.

 

Everyday i see new festivals popping up all around the world with endless artists and djs lists that i dont think have ever played anywhere else before.Same with local parties.You know the usual 'Me and my friends' line up.

 

Everyday i have 4-5 Israeli 'artists' wanting to send me their demos through the net,i mean this country has more artists than the rest of the world has alltogether.When i ask from them to just send me a cd on the label office everybody just dissapears.

 

Everybody is or at least wants to be something in this tiny scene.Thats not bad ofcourse but if you want to be an artist then you better go and study some music or visit an audio engineer school or something and then come back in 3-4 years and shows us what you have learned during this process.Everybody wants to be a party organiser but noone is willing to work for someone else first and learn how things work and operate in parties.Everybody wants to be a dj but very few people own some dj equipment in their house and buy original music so that they can do the work properly,instead everybody knows how to use dj software programs and knows one thousand codes of secret ftps for downloading mp3 music.

 

The funny thing is that very few of these people will actually evolve into something good.They will just be there forever doing their thing and offering nothing to the scene apart ofcourse fucking everything for those who are serious on what they are doing.

 

So there will always be crappy labels selling 300-400 copies with their friends music out there who in fact just prevent serious labels in selling more.

 

There will always be young crappy wannabe artists and djs out there willing to play for free and even pay for their own travel expenses in order to go and play in a festival and see their name printed on a flyer,these people just block bookings of serious artists and djs who ask to be payed for their services.

 

If you want to be a lawyer then you got to study,practice and ofcourse love what you are doing,just the love for it isnt enough,until people in trance understand that things will keep going down the drain every single day.

[NEMO.BOFH]

All is falling down since very young,naive,selfish,greedy and arrogant people discovered that its very easy to start a label and release whatever even without paying the artists,very easy to buy two cdjs and pretend to be a DJ playing unreleased mp3s easy found on the net and cheap downloaded using an ADSL line,relatively easy to buy a computer and download some programs and start making 'music' and naming yourself an artist,easy to set up a 'party' and if nothing goes well to just dissapear and dont pay anyone and other various stuff like that.

 

Wherever you look today you see djs and artists,party organisers,label managers,booking and promotion agents and psy trance experts.

 

Every day i wake up and visit psyshop just to discover that another 2-3 new labels were established somewhere in Israel and Russia releasing music from people i have never ever heard of despite the fact that i am listening to this music for something like 6-7 years now.

 

Everyday i see new festivals popping up all around the world with endless artists and djs lists that i dont think have ever played anywhere else before.Same with local parties.You know the usual 'Me and my friends' line up.

 

Everyday i have 4-5 Israeli 'artists' wanting to send me their demos through the net,i mean this country has more artists than the rest of the world has alltogether.When i ask from them to just send me a cd on the label office everybody just dissapears.

 

Everybody is or at least wants to be something in this tiny scene.Thats not bad ofcourse but if you want to be an artist then you better go and study some music or visit an audio engineer school or something and then come back in 3-4 years and shows us what you have learned during this process.Everybody wants to be a party organiser but noone is willing to work for someone else first and learn how things work and operate in parties.Everybody wants to be a dj but very few people own some dj equipment in their house and buy original music so that they can do the work properly,instead everybody knows how to use dj software programs and knows one thousand codes of secret ftps for downloading mp3 music.

 

The funny thing is that very few of these people will actually evolve into something good.They will just be there forever doing their thing and offering nothing to the scene apart ofcourse fucking everything for those who are serious on what they are doing.

 

So there will always be crappy labels selling 300-400 copies with their friends music out there who in fact just prevent serious labels in selling more.

 

There will always be young crappy wannabe artists and djs out there willing to play for free and even pay for their own travel expenses in order to go and play in a festival and see their name printed on a flyer,these people just block bookings of serious artists and djs who ask to be payed for their services.

 

If you want to be a lawyer then you got to study,practice and ofcourse love what you are doing,just the love for it isnt enough,until people in trance understand that things will keep going down the drain every single day.

559054[/snapback]

Nicely said, but we also DO need young blood in this scene. I sometimes feel like some of the dinosaurs of the scene are doing just the same as you describe what the newbies are doing.

 

I think this is about "having a status/being a star" thing....

 

I dont know, ive been in this scene for quiete some while, and I see people come and go. Some I am very happy that they still are doing the same thing as 15 years ago, and some of them should just retire and let some space for the newcommers.

 

All newcommers dont have bad ideas, and all of them dont NEED to learn what to do, some of them are naturals, and they need to be fed from the beginning with inspiration and with respect. If we dont take care of these so called naturals, they will just end up being as arrogant, as the people in the scene we so much dislike.

 

Worth a thought I think, or not?!

[DETOX]

Dear Nemo ofcourse we need young blood in this scene.Without new people this scene will die sooner or later.

 

And like you wisely said some people should just retire while some others should continue doing their great work and helping this music to evolve and expand.

 

The problem is that newcomers with good ideas are the minority and are getting lost in this endless chaos of bad amateur people trying to achieve their personal goals through this music.

 

For every good new label we got twenty bad labels just spamming the market.

 

For every good new artist we got thirty wannabe artists who just want to be super mega pop stars and will stop nowhere before they achieve that.

 

For every good new dj we got at least fifty self proclaimed djs who want to travel and become world famous so that they can get more fame,money and whatever comes along these two.The same goes for many party organisers.

 

With this analogy there is no balance and every day things are getting worst.

 

So if things continue like this the end will come sooner or later unfortunately.

[NEMO.BOFH]

Dear Nemo ofcourse we need young blood in this scene.Without new people this scene will die sooner or later.

 

And like you wisely said some people should just retire while some others should continue doing their great work and helping this music to evolve and expand.

 

The problem is that newcomers with good ideas are the minority and are getting lost in this endless chaos of bad amateur people trying to achieve their personal goals through this music.

 

For every good new label we got twenty bad labels just spamming the market.

 

For every good new artist we got thirty wannabe artists who just want to be super mega pop stars and will stop nowhere before they achieve that.

 

For every good new dj we got at least fifty self proclaimed djs who want to travel and become world famous so that they can get more fame,money and whatever comes along these two.The same goes for many party organisers.

 

With this analogy there is no balance and every day things are getting worst.

 

So if things continue like this the end will come sooner or later unfortunately.

559083[/snapback]

Totally agree, but people that think like "us" should just join forces and get rid of that state, shouldnt we? But we dont do jack about it, and thats the most sad part of it....

[DETOX]

Unfortunately Nemo we reached a point where people who really care about this music are just a minority that is being bashed out from the majority.

 

When good artists make good music they get ignored by the people who prefer over promoted bad artists who suit better to their drug addiction habits and star system.

 

When good labels release good music they get ignored by the people who prefer to download for free this music rather pay for it.When the labels complain about this situation all this majority of people bash the label out for putting high prices on the cds,not being innovative in their promotion and sales strategy,labels being bad and greedy and exploiting the artists etc etc etc.

 

When good promoters organise nice events with quality line ups the people prefer to visit the mega raves with the over promoted artists mentioned before.

 

We reached a point where artists asking to be payed for the music and live perfomances are considered greedy bastards,labels who ask people to buy their music original rather download it are called exploiting pimps,people who complain about the quality of music that is getting released in our days to be called old fashioned etc etc.

 

We even reached a point where people accuse me of being part of the super star system because i release music by Prometheus,Orion,Bamboo Forest,Deedrah,Jaia,Silicon Sound,S Range,Electric Universe and more on my label.

 

HEY DETOX YOU FAT RICH BASTARD YOU AND YOUR FLUFFY LABEL ARE NOT PART OF THE UNDERGROUND TRANCE SCENE BECAUSE YOU DONT SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL UNDERGROUND ARTISTS (WHO MAKE MUSIC ON 190BPM USING FRUITY LOOPS) AND YOU ARE RELEASING WIZZY NOISE AND PROMETHEUS INSTEAD PLUS YOU CANNOT BE ONE OF US BECAUSE YOU SLEEP IN A HOTEL INSTEAD OF A TENT DURING A FESTIVAL AND YOU WEAR NAUTICA T SHIRTS INSTEAD OF WORN OUT ROLLING STONES T SHIRTS FROM WOODSTOCK.

 

Times and things are changing but thats not always good i am afraid.

[NEMO.BOFH]

Unfortunately Nemo we reached a point where people who really care about this music are just a minority that is being bashed out from the majority.

 

When good artists make good music they get ignored by the people who prefer over promoted bad artists who suit better to their drug addiction habits and star system.

 

When good labels release good music they get ignored by the people who prefer to download for free this music rather pay for it.When the labels complain about this situation all this majority of people bash the label out for putting high prices on the cds,not being innovative in their promotion and sales strategy,labels being bad and greedy and exploiting the artists etc etc etc.

 

When good promoters organise nice events with quality line ups the people prefer to visit the mega raves with the over promoted artists mentioned before.

 

We reached a point where artists asking to be payed for the music and live perfomances are considered greedy bastards,labels who ask people to buy their music original rather download it are called exploiting pimps,people who complain about the quality of music that is getting released in our days to be called old fashioned etc etc.

 

Times and things are changing but thats not always good i am afraid.

559097[/snapback]

What can I say my friend, you are right Buts still we need to do something about it.... but what, and how, I do not know... there are not many that are willing to join forces at this moment... UNFORTUNATELY!

[TranceChick]

What can I say my friend, you are right Buts still we need to do something about it.... but what, and how, I do not know... there are not many that are willing to join forces at this moment... UNFORTUNATELY!

559100[/snapback]

An organizition to protect artists from "bad labels" & "greedy promoters"!

Sort of a Union for them. To ensure proper treatment at events, payment (including flight home from events) and make sure the artists tracks aren't mulled over-changed to what the labels wants!

 

Helpful hints or constructive criticism are usually welcomed, but when the label tells the artist to "... change the sound to fit the label standard..." NOT COOL!

To have artists that have been in the industry as long as Elysium that feel their music isn't doing it for the masses anymore. Or the scene is too corrupt to bother creating with the same passion as before.... to have them feeling they should give up/quit, makes me very sad!

 

Something needs to be done for sure!

[Anoebis]

What can I say my friend, you are right Buts still we need to do something about it.... but what, and how, I do not know... there are not many that are willing to join forces at this moment... UNFORTUNATELY!

559100[/snapback]

well, the thing is that scene is fallen apart, you have so many styles that concentrate on "their" public...

Detox is 100% right about all he said except for 1 thing, certain 300cd releases are not bad at all, and I rather buy them then the "top hits" from this moment... most very fresh and original ideas are made by unknown artists that sell not much... (so the 300 cds-category) I don't think cd sales are a good thing to measure the quality of a release...

For instance it's clear that our label sells less then latest Alien Project or Deedrah or bla bla bla, but that doesn't mean per sé our music is worse...

Anyway, if the situation is really so bad there may be a possibilitie of starting some kind of trade unions between artists? Like that they can fight for their rights!

 

And also, we should create an atmosphere of buying cds again... There must be some tricks so people buy more and download less... (worms in mp3's that destroy all mp3's on computers? héhé)

[FrozenRealm]

why the mp3 hatred!? If it wasn't for mp3's.. I would definitly buy less albums for sure! I really got to know acts just by that.. and Its also available for buying online so... :/

[Anoebis]

why the mp3 hatred!? If it wasn't for mp3's.. I would definitly buy less albums for sure! I really got to know acts just by that.. and Its also available for buying online so... :/

559122[/snapback]

cool, if everyone would use the mp3 like you do it, it would be GREAT, really, thanks for still buying music! But the fact is that, before mp3 was there, a label sold 10-12 more cds then today... (but ok, let's stop this discussion here as otherwise we are going too far off topic)

[furthur]

i don't know what's wrong with the "scene"

all i know is that there is some amazing music out there, some amazing festivals out there, some amazing people out there on the dancefloor

i am not saying ignore the negative. no; that way, there will never be improvement

but do try to focus on the positive, because there is so much of it

so damn much

[DETOX]

TRANCECHICK actually your idea is something i have thought of in the past and i am very glad that someone else did also mention it,it might sound difficult to happen or even sound funny to some people but this could actually be a very good measure to tell the 'good' from the 'bad' guys.

 

I mean if such an organisation existed then people who dont pay the artists for example in their events could get soft of banned from the scene.

 

So lets say for example that 100 artists are registered within this organisation and 2 of them go to play in a festival in Mexico and the promoters treat the artists very bad and dont pay them.If this organisation examines both sides (artists and promoters) and decides that the promoters treated the artists really bad for no obvious reason and that they are not willing to make up for it then it could inform all of its 100 artists members that they are not supposed (or even allowed as long as they want to be members of this organisation?) to go and play for that specific promoter.

 

Same for labels that dont pay their artists all of the organisation artists would get informed to not give their music for release purposes on these labels and if some online trance shops and distributors could also be part of this organisation then they could also stop doing business with these bad labels.

 

Sounds funny huh?Well funny and difficult at the same time like i said before but it could actually work very good within our small scene and save us from the existance of some people who are involved in this music just to make a profit on the expense of others.

 

ANOEBIS ofcourse within this 300 cds there will be 30 cds that are really good but like i said before they will get lost within the massive releases chaos.I mean take for example this PKS guy.He established a new label,he compiled AN AMAZING cd and in the end he didnt even sold 500 copies.He had all these amazing names and music in his cd but the guy got fucked up because of this spam releases situation coming from crappy labels.Isnt it really sad for such a person to loose the faith in the music and the market just because some young kids are desperate to release their crap music on a cd even if they have to establish their own label in order to do that simply because noone else is willing to release their music?And its not only PKS that looses the faith,its other people too who had the same plans and dreams as him but after reading his story decided to not make a step further in order not to loose their time,money and efforts.THIS SITUATION MUST COME TO AN END.

 

By the way dear FROZENREALM noone has anything against mp3's as long as they are used in a balanced way.You might want to buy 20 cds a month but thats impossible for you to afford it.If you buy 5cds and download the rest noone is going to blame you BUT if you dont buy none and just download everything because its easy and free then you are using mp3s in a wrong and selfish way.Unfortunately 90% of the people out there download everything and dont even buy one cd a year and not only that but they even make fun of the people that spend their money in order to support their favorite artists,labels and music.

[NEMO.BOFH]

So, now we are talking about a trance mob (thats all a union is) that protects the artist, but that would then be made for free? Dont take my tone negative, I have had the exact same idea as well... Well, that and a publishing company that would let the artist be the publisher of his own stuff... well, thats a more complicated one, and I am not going to go into it.

 

Yeah, well, sounds all good and dandy to me. Who decides who is allowed to join?

 

What you described Detox, however SHOULD be done by the booking agencies already, they dont though