RTP Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 Yes, yes, YES! A PSY-TRANCE "FAIRTRADE" CERTIFICATE SEAL! This is something I have been thinking of lately. An independent platform/organisation, operating in the scene and on the net, who is giving out these "Fairtrade Certificate Seals" to those labels and organizers who really pay their artists well and don't rip them off! And of course also with a blacklist for those who do rip off! Damn, that's a great idea! For the benefit of the whole scene and as a sort of protection for the artists and as a way to really give fedback how they are treated by labels and organizers - a place to rant about the baddies and a place to praise the goddies! The death of the commercial ripoff industry! Okay, not the death ... for that we wouldn't be strong enough. But it certainly states a point! You just have to see how the scene acclaims this idea... I'd be in for that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 It's all well and a good though BUT I seriously doubt it will work. 1. Who should run this organisation? Yet another group of wannabe hippies. Let's face it. The psytrance scene got very little professional minded people. 2. Who decide what artist can join? Can all artists join? Even thouse who would like to be an artist but never had a release or just had one track on a sample CD and a gig in the backyard. What is fair? 3. Who will decide who's speaking the truth when a organiser/label have a twist with an artist? 4. Will the "stars" join and be solidaric with the less "cool and famous" artists? I dont think they will. They got it all going for them and are not interested in sharing some of that success or risk loosing a gig. And without them then the whole idea is kind of bust 5. Will it prevent artists to continue say yes to playing for free and pay their own tickets that as we all know underminde the rest of the serious hard working artists and allow the organsiers to continue take advantage of artist who are not "mega stars"? Again I doubt it. I could go on and on. The bottom line is that it's not an oganisation with a group of people playing Police we need. We need a shift in moral and ethics in the psy scene from all parts. The organisers, labels, artists and audience. Personally i don't see that coming ever. It's a greedy "I think about myself" world and it's also finally entered the psytrance scene to stay for good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cosmogenesis Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 Damnn! This thread turns to a politico-musical debate! I have read a lot of different comments and opinions about the retirement of Elysium, and I don't want to enter this debate. I respect Elysium's decision: it's his choice. As a goa fan, I would like only to say that I feel sad to learn it. Elysium's music was something very unique, I have discovered it in the first years of my "goa initiation" back in the 90's, I have lived a lot of great moments of listening and happiness thanks to it. And a lot of memories too.... I remember especially in 1997 or 98, when "Trancelestial Psychobabas" was played, every night, all the summer, by the dj's in my greek place, and people called it the "wolf-track". I can listen also every day a short extract of "atmosphere" on a greek channel called OTE Promo. Elysium is indeed very famous in Greece! And, as Rezwalker said, your newest track on Avatar records sounds amazing! It's really a shame that a pionneer artist, who has helped the trance scene since more than a decade, says goodbye like this, to all of us. Anyway, Elysium, good luck to your new musical projects and eternal respect to you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pr0fane Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 I had a long talk with Elysium about this on MSN, and I'm so sad to see him leave the psytrance-scene, as I still believe he has a lot to offer. Shame on the Tchamla organisers ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTP Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 Who should run this organisation? Yet another group of wannabe hippies. Let's face it. The psytrance scene got very little professional minded people. 559289[/snapback] no ... you could run it Nah, seriously ... it's a nice idea and I'd be in for it any time, but you're right, it lacks somewhat perspective. Still, it's not dumb I think. Runned it can be by whomever. By me. By you. Best would be if there's no real individual who "runs" it, it's an organisation where the people, that are in the organisation, run it. Furthermore I think the big superstars would never join something like that anyway, since they don't pay attention to what some wannabe hippies are doing, so that problem would be solved - you don't need to ban them when they don't come. Truthspeaking is up to the people who read the reports. Investigating and shite should be done though. The last one I doubt too Anyway, would it be so bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 no ... you could run it 559322[/snapback] I can asure you I wil never ever use the time it would take to run such a thing. It would be a fulltime job x 10 and I doubt anyone would pay my salery But if anyone decide to do it I am bowing in the dust of respect even though I, as I wrote earlier, seriously doubt it would work out or even change a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Journey Man Project Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 the psytrance scne was full of wannabe hippies and narrow minded fucks from the start.. but at least the music was good back then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 the psytrance scne was full of wannabe hippies and narrow minded fucks from the start.. but at least the music was good back then... 559440[/snapback] There are a few factors that does the whole difference from then til now. 1. The scene has become much bigger and way more commercial. 2. Because of increased competition less artists are willing to help eachother out. Even old friends forget who helped them to become who they are today (hint). 3. The more and more uneducated audiences want more and more Skazi music and as long as less and less organisers know a thing about variety in music the more narrowminded and stereotyped the scene become. So yes there was indeed many wannabe hippies and narrowminded "fuck ups" as you put it in the old days. But the will to help eachother and respect for eachother was much more present than today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Journey Man Project Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 ok.. I really didn't mean to offend but I just remeber the early parties in Oz where some really bad shit went down due to it being run by rich kids who thought it was oo cool to play goa trance... at least back then I bothered to go to parties because the music was good and my friends were good... now they all ended up fucked on drugs and those that got involved in the scene all think they are Tiesto or something... I haven't been to apparty in like 3 years... they just suck now-a-days... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 (edited) Anyway it is a debate that can go on and on for hours, days and years. I personally have lost fait in that it will ever change for the better. My last action before I close the door behind me is to confront most organsiers with an e-mail "interviewing" them and letting them face som hard questions. Let's see if they are brave enough to answer. I will of course put up the e-mail and answers here and on other forums and of course tell the organsiers that it will be made public. Ps! you did not offend anyone Journey Man Edited July 1, 2006 by Elysium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 DETOX I dont think elysium was talking about unknown new small labels or inexperienced first-time party organizers.. From what I got he talked about people with many years in the scene that treated him bad.. He can clarify that.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Journey Man Project Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 Ps! you did not offend anyone Journey Man 559448[/snapback] cheers mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 DETOX I dont think elysium was talking about unknown new small labels or inexperienced first-time party organizers.. From what I got he talked about people with many years in the scene that treated him bad.. He can clarify that.. 559449[/snapback] You are absolutely right. My bad experiences does not only include new young organsiers or labels. It very much include organsiers and labels that's been here for a long time too. People who should know better but also seem to have fallen for the greed and arrogant way of doing business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapinho Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 ok.. I really didn't mean to offend but I just remeber the early parties in Oz where some really bad shit went down due to it being run by rich kids who thought it was oo cool to play goa trance... at least back then I bothered to go to parties because the music was good and my friends were good... now they all ended up fucked on drugs and those that got involved in the scene all think they are Tiesto or something... I haven't been to apparty in like 3 years... they just suck now-a-days... 559447[/snapback] oh shut up. if you haven't been to a party in 3 years, how do you know they suck? to me it seems that it's more of a personal problem, than a problem with the so-called scene... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 the psytrance scne was full of wannabe hippies and narrow minded fucks from the start.. but at least the music was good back then... 559440[/snapback] Haha. I'm inclined to agree. Those leaning to the left who value hippy ideals (as I do) are just as closed minded to conservative values as conservatives are to leftist values. There really are no open-minded, enlightened people, only people thinking they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranceVisuals Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 Wow, what a thread!! As an psychedelic artist (visual) who has spent the last two or so years setting up their own DVD label, and starting to release psytrance/ambient DVD's, I wouldn't really recommend it for anyone unless you have a huge masochistic streak!!! It is a lot of hard work, for very little reward, other than the warm feeling that you have actually managed to produce something real (and hopefully commercial literally). Some people here whom I recognise from other forums, might know that recently I have quit from live performance, for much the same reasons that Elysium and Colin OOOD have spoken from their own experiences. However what I have personally found is rather than "rejecting the scene" was a return to the original impetus of why I got involved in the first place. My own artistic vision inspired by the psychedelic experience. It doesn't matter anymore that I have to chase gigs, put on a show/face, play the "ego" games or anything else like that. If I do another psychedelically orientated gathering/party it will be because I want to, not because of the networking, where it might lead, the exposure. And certainly never for the money, though that is a factor (if someone is doing something for profit/wages i.e. the promoter, then the workers should be renumerated). Getting back to dreaming, and concentrating inspiring myself seems far more worthwhile than making someone's else dream (who often forget/ignore one's own effort) reality. Psychedelic Trance, is a state of mind (nominally under the influence of entheogenic substances), not a style of music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 Psytrance, is a state of mind, nominally under the influence of entheogenic substances, not a style of music. 563176[/snapback] Nice post mate!!!. Replace 'Psytrance' with 'Psychedelia' or 'Psychedelic Music' in general and I fully agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daybrain Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 Hey old wise guy, don't you realise? we all get old. it seems to be a generation conflict. A Culture Clash. The new stupid youth got trough And about releasing music; i really really wonder where the fuck is the problem with selling music by downloads directly from the artists page. there are costs for such an infrastructure of course. but i'm sure you can share your opinion with almost any famous music geek of the old (golden) era. a download and pay per track site is required. Anybody who loves music wants to pay directly to the artist. Nobody wants to pay for Advertisement. What the f... are artists doing for such a download platform. The Apple and other stores are a beginning. I doubt there are much costs for a download site nowaday! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mAn_WiTh_No_nAmE Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 this hurts.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krell Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 Because you want to, and have to... That's why I do it. I have mere four releases and three gigs on my belt, all thanks to a few friends' valiant efforts. Yes, the scene sucks at times, but really - if you care that much, and still say "It's not about the money", are you REALLY into this music for the right reasons? I don't mean to provoke, or say "you made your bed, now lie in it" - just poking for possible sollutions, so fab' artists like Elysium and VOC don't quit for the wrong reasons (or at all?) -A - When will Krell join the discussion, and lay down the truth....? 556727[/snapback] The truth ? The truth is that if you want the scene to improve, you have to work at improving it. Raising peoples awareness of the problems, for instance in regards to the booking mechanics of the scene, in forums is of course the beginning... However, I think those who need to be aware, are aware, and have been aware for many years now. Straight up - Elysium doesnt get the bookings he wants because his music is not in demand. It used to be in demand, and he knows how you treat an artist professionally, this treatment he does not experience anymore. Elysium has been reduced to having to deal with an upcoming artists status, simply because most of the people in the psy scene are 16-22 year olds who dont have the legacy of the music from the 90ies. Ask them who Elysium is, then ask them who Eskimo is! - Ask me and I reply "Eskimo is the nemesis of Elysium". The Elysium brandname wont sell a lot of tickets for an organizer anymore, wont bring in a lot of people, therefore is unimportant. Never mind the music, it IS about the money. Thats the truth, and the fact that Elysium knows this to be bullocks, since he has enjoyed a different professional perspective earlier in his career, makes these facts intolerable for him. If you have a strong brandname "Astral Projection", "Infected Mushroom", "Hallucinogen", "Deedrah" or whatever - Then, no problem. If you are DJ Nobody, or Liveact Unknown, then noone will invest time and money in you, since that investment simply doesnt pay off. Just business, nothing personal. It really is up to the individual organizers to find a balance between profitability, art and professionalism. I dont think we have that much of an impact on bad organizers debating this in a forum, since I really dont think they truely care enough to participate in forums on this level anyways. Im sure, all of us who organize parties, do so the best way we can. At least those here. The thing is, there are plenty of others who are not here, amongst whom the problems reside. They dont care about the depths of culture, its about numbers... Profits, Visitors, Permits, Promotion etc. Heres a sad fact - Success and Action speaks the loudest. Therefore, these organizers will focus on creating the biggest events - As long as the artists show up, and the party goes on, people are happy - and they dont care whether and artist (dj, live, deco or whomever) gets treated badly. Why should they ? They are there to party, once they are done with that, its on to the next party, and the next...... I know WE care, but another sad fact is that we here, on psynews or isratrance are a minority. Take a look at isratrance for instance, "There are 5920 active users from 64 countries" - 6000 active users, thats only a SMALL FRACTION of who will attend all the festivals in Europe this summer. (I wonder how many of those read these topics, and of those, how many can influence anything). All we can do here, is to support each other, swap stories and so forth - When we know some of us practice what we preach, perhaps we can do more for each other. Work together. As an organizer and DJ, I have the choice between breathing new life into my DJing career by making use of the numerous "I book You, You book Me" offers I get, or, "You come here and play for free, I go to you and play for free"... or - I can just try to make it right, and by doing this reap personal benefits in regards to personal pride, accomplishment and so forth. I choose the ladder, because I have a code of conduct, breaking with that code will undermine the foundation my ego is standing on :-) Elysium and I, can get into heated discussions, as we can with many others. There are countless topics where we dont see eye to eye, and as many where we do. What annoys me the most, with what people make him go through, is that he usually seems very reasonable, and the reward he gets, is that people keep changing the deals on him. While I also often see it as whining, and I sometimes think he should change his nick to "Grumpy Old Man", there is no escaping the enevitable truth, that you cant expect to be treated with professionalism when you are an unknown artist. If you get a booking, and you tell the organizer you are sending over a contract, they will laugh at you and book someone else. Plenty of DJs and Lives to choose from after all... The organizer workload surely has an impact as well. Festival organizers multitasking between too many tasks...... I can only speculate, but I guess if the festival organizers make 150-200 deals, and once its time to honor those deals, they realize their ressources and skills are insufficient. Then, the problem is passed down the lineup, and its the artists which will bring the most attention & money to the festival who get priority over the others (the dispensable ones). In the end, the organizer will adapt a stanse that the artist is being unreasonable, simply because the organizer himself has been pushed beyond his/her capacity to deal with the tasks at hand. There is no choice, but still, in reality, the problem lies within the organizer not being up to the task, for whatever reason (often lack of experience causing poor coordination). We pass the shit down in the system. Are all of these organizers evil and bad people ? Or have they just found the limits of their organizing skills resulting in disorganized multitasking. I think, its the last. People easily seem arrogant when they are under pressure, and they dont know how to deal with the situation, so they have to let many things go. Having a vision is easy, realizing it is difficult. @Elysium If your sole deciding factor for being a part of the psychedelic scene is that you are here as an artist, and as such expect bookings on a professional level, then by all means, leave. Are you, however, in this for other reasons as well - as I suspect - I think you should think twice about what you are doing. There are good and bad people, good and bad experiences - everywhere in the world. You dont solve them by leaving them (you just encounter new problems, which you are increasingly ill equipped to solve). Compose the music you like, because you like it - Dont expect anything from the world, besides it allowing you to compose your music the way you want it. If enough people like your music, you become a star once more, and you wont have to deal with all the bullshit the rest of us do :-) The same goes for all other musicians. Dont let music become your profession, or expect it to be, when there is no market for your product. This is what it all comes down to, supply and demand. It is NOT going to get any easier in the future. - Krell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amygdala Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 Word... -A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frontier Psychiatrist Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 Wise words Krell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 Thats the truth, and the fact that Elysium knows this to be bullocks, since he has enjoyed a different professional perspective earlier in his career, makes these facts intolerable for him. I agree on a lot of things you write krell but this i simply have to disagree with. You have to be careful when you assume you "know" what I think krell. I have no illusion about my own "status" as Elysium in the scene today. I have a long time ago come to terms with that most organizers, labels and partypeople of todays scene dont know my music and never will because it idoes not fit the mainstream style and is too slow. My protests got absolutely nothing to do with that I once had a "status" and now am a nobody. I dont mind not being a "star". and I got no problem in working hard to get gigs etc. What I am protesting against is unfair treament, disrespect, breaking of deals etc. BECAUSE I am a nobody to organizers and labels. Not because I once was somebody. PS! Please not a long essay as a respond Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 We all have a point of view, thats the point... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniël Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 HAH, i laugh at those artists complaining about respect & professionalism in the scene. try to be a deco-artist It's twice the work and transportation but the first one to fall off if the party wasn't a succes. How do you think i feel when i enter a 20 meter high building and i see a crappy ladder with extension of another ladder instead of an altitude worker. Goa isn't professional, it's hippie shit, remember, supposed to be small and crappy but full of charm. if it bothers you you're either too old or too vain. It was born crappy and even if it's tried to be made professional you'll always have a majority of crappy situations. that's typical for goa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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