Psy-Artist payment

[Guest llazi]

Well I know how much does a artist get paid in a live/dj gig, but I still don't know how much gets a psy-artist from a sold cd of his album.

[Guest D-Dave]

The royalties are around 16% of the sales. But if that means sales to the distributor I do not know. In that case it would be 16% of like 6-7 euro.

But that never happens.

Artists never get payed cause if the distributor doesnt fuck it up, and boy they do, the labels fuck it up! Growl.

I know so many artists and they hardly ever get payed. The really big names get payed sometimes but forget about the rest.

 

We (BotfB) are actually getting payed by Boom Records and we love them for that! They would have payed more if they hadnt been fucked by distributors. Distributors suck. Dont trust ´em.

We have also received random payments from other labels so I guess we can count ourselves lucky.

 

Now, how much do you know artists get payed for a live/dj gig llazi? It would be interesting to know. For us it ranges from between 0-800 euro.

Often its 0.

[Guest bugbread]

Hmm...here's a question for the insiders: what labels pay the most? I'm sure that the little mom'n'pop labels (Like Panorama records, which only has two artists, Ubartmar and Uni) must pay a lot. After all, those really small labels sometimes only have 1 employee (I see the owner of Panorama at parties all the time, and he attends almost every party ubartmar plays at). It's easy for a big label to give an artist the runaround, but if it's really small, it seems like there's less chopping.

 

So, any signed artists out there: What label do you know gives the biggest percentage.

 

Also, did the people on the Psynews compilation get paid? It's a bit of an unusual case, so I'm curious.

[Guest mushaman]

i condirer myself as a psy-artist...and i'd like to know more about the subject.

 

Thank you

 

P.L.U.R:

[Guest Elysium Project]

Actually the ones I have experienced pay the most (and on time) was Flying Rhino (rest in peace) and Dragonfly (when they were runned by Big Life). This have to do with the fact that they were runed more profesionally than other labels (as professional as they could get in this "non" - professional scene).

 

My experience tell me that most small labels do not pay well since they mostly are runned in a "familiar"and unprofessional (bad distribution and hardly any promoting = low sales) way without any or very little cash on the bottom.

 

About live:

 

There's a big differnce in the payment from artist to artist. It's obvious that teh more popular you are the more money you get.

 

One Example:

 

At Boom (my own experience) they offer most (non of the top artists) £. 400-500. In my opinion that's a very unfair price seen in the light that they make quite a lot of money themselves.

 

So it's very hard to say what's a fair price or not but it's very few artist that actually laught on the way to their banks :-)

[Guest Elysium Project]

NB!

 

This is the "normal" calculation on an artist royalties from a label.

 

The label sell 1 CD to the distributor for lets say around £. 4 - 5 (MAX).

 

Then the label has to pay:

 

The graphic design of the cover artwork and posters ect. (promotion)

The priniting plant

The studio that does the mastering

Shipping of the CD

Packaging

....and other small expenses.

 

When this is payed there's around £. 2 - 3 left (sometimes even less).

 

Out of the left over the artist get around 14-16% (somerttimes less or more dependant on how good the artist is to negotiate and how popular the artist is).

 

Let's say the label sell around 1.500 CD's

 

Then the artist make (calculated with 16%):

 

£. 0.4 x 1.500 = £. 600,- (around $. 650 - 700)

 

Then remember that the artist (for a newcomer more established bands might get more) got around £. 500 - 1000 in advance.

 

Voila nothing left or even a BIG minus.

 

And I haven't even started to calculate the taxes yet :-)

 

So you see it's not something anyone get's rich of...except if the CD sell a lot of copies which rarely is teh case in this scene.

[Guest llazi]

Hmm, interesting, it's lower that I thought.

About live/dj gigs, I can tell what I've been told around and that is

1000-1500 $ for well known artists and if u do it for the first time many of them would come for free (except travelling and hospitality costs).

 

Anyway I'm trying to get a idea of the whole cd production, caus i'm thinking of opening my self a label (I have the possibility to do the whole production). I want to get a idea of the whole cd raw cost to see how much is left for the label it self. (want a figure out also why Flying Rhino and .. gone bankrupt)

[Guest spacemonkey - 604]

that's pretty fucked up, the artist supply the music and others get rich selling it!

Of course it's not a surprise to me, but seeing it pointed out like this is quite another thing.

[Guest Elysium Project]

Flying Rhino went bankrupt mainly because a well-known Isralie label/distributor did not pay them what they owed ( a lot of money). Also the decreasing sales played a factor but the non-payment was the tip of the Iceberg.

[Guest llazi]

There schould be a way that Flying Rhino gets his money or not. WTF is this for a businnes relationship. I'm sure that they had a legal agreement. The only way that the distributor doesn't pay would be the situation where the distributor goes bankrupt too, or not

[Guest Elysium Project]

Well if they get their money or not I can't tell. But as I said that was not the whole problem but just he tip of the Iceberg.

If they get their money back or not does not help them now. And that's why they had to close the label down. They can't wait for the money from both the distributor and sales.

[Guest bugbread]

Sorry, EP, I wasn't too clear: I meant that small labels probably pay higher percentages, not more money. Of course, if you get 5% royalties on a Gatecrasher release you'll make more total money than if you get 50% royalties on a run of 10 cds on a small label. But it seems like really small labels might pay a bigger percent per album.

[Guest Elysium Project]

It's not my experience that they do. Maybe some do but I haven't heard of them though :-)

 

My experience tell me that many small labels release new bands and that those new bands get a very little percentage because they are "hungry".

 

I have been told by people inside the Isralie and Greek music business that many labels there don't even pay the artists any advance anymore. They find a young hungry kid and release his music and the give him 5 - 8% in royalties.

 

Of course I am sure that there are labels out there that pay higher percentages. I am just sure that it only happens to artists that are friends of the owner or the owners own projects :-)

[Guest bugbread]

Ah...I suppose that makes sense, then. I think Panorama is the exception that proves the rule, then.

[Basilisk]

its true, the situation is distressing... most of the artists i speak to seldom get paid, and some of the newer artists who make fantastic music have yet to make more than $50 for a track, and i dont know anyone who has been paid royalties.

 

however... here's the trouble i can't quite understand - if the labels are ripping the artists off so much, why is cash so tight? does this mean that if a label were to pay a more proper amount that they would necessarily die a quick death due to lack of funds? (i guess i'll find out soon enough)

[Guest Elysium Project]

You hit the nail on the head basilisk :-)

 

Lot's of labels start up without any funding. If they had to pay a "normal" advance and royalties in the right time they wouldn't survive 1. month.

 

To me a label is a business and should be considered as such. As I see it we need more money strong people in this scene. People that dare to take a risk and bring a more professional attitude into the labels.

[Guest dizzy]

If I was an artist (in this cas a DJ) I would work for the same reason I do things, and that's because I love to...so, if I got paid enough to pay my rent, put food on my table, and be able to get my working stuff...that would be enough...why? because all of my traveling would be paid for then I souldn't need anything else...nothing to do with the subject right?...ok back to were I came from...babai...have a nice day

[Guest bholenath]

To EP

Dont People have legal Agreements while doing business ...

whats the point then...suppose i sign u n say that ill pay u only if the cds sell a certain amount ,but never do then what the hell will u do......

[Guest Elysium Project]

Yes they do have legal agreements but what can an artists do? Sue them? Well that cost a lot of money to sue someone (a company) outside your own country. Most artist just do not have that kind of money and it will in 99% of the time be a waste of time and cost more than the company owe you. There's really no other solution than to "blacklist" the labels or distributors once the "experience" have taken place.

[Basilisk]

but isnt the problem that the artists seldom have a voice? i mean, yourself excepted EP, but i've never heard anyone share their bad experiences. if i *knew* label "X" was in the practise of ripping people off i wouldn't buy their products. i guess knowing takes a few anecdotes from unconnected artists (i mean, who knows who has a vendetta right).. just your comments about nova zembla made me vow to never purchase one of their releases... and when you pointed out the voodoo witch EP was not even yours that made a puzzle i only figured out one of those songs - process' fine tune "funktion junktion".. but damn, artists should really say something...

[Guest Mike D]

I think it is very sad and I think this makes a great point for the psyscene to finally come outof the underground and more into a slight, but not over the top, commercial realm. I mean, wouldn't it be great if all our artist's could afford to live off their music? I mean, we complain so much about the lack of progresion in trance and the fact that only GMS release new songs, or infrected and not many other groups, mainly because there is not much incentive if you do not get paid for your work. I think it owuld be great for somebody with a reasonably high amount of money to gather maybe a few of the bigger labels, I wish the now dead flying rhino label could have been a part, together and shake out the bad attitude, promote the shiot out of the scene and artist's and turn it into a success story, instead of a nother bankrupt liquidated sob story. I feel really sorry for the artist's and to a certain extent the label's who a battling os hard!

[Guest D-Dave]

Yeah the losers are the artists and the labels. The labels usually try to do a good job but get fucked up by distributors and others. Some labels dont care to pay though, if they licensed one track or whatever.

Thats why we try to get advances but thats nearly hopeless.

These are all strong arguments for not downloading music, and if you do and like it, to go buy it.

*Preferrably straight from the label or the artist!!*

 

The thing is to find some label you can really trust and have a personal relationship with. Matt and Rem of Boom are really good friends and we have a relaxed business relationship. They pay us 50% of the profit (when everything is payed for) and they pay when they can which is a good deal I think.

 

I was kind of hoping that the Internet would provide more solutions for artists to promote and sell their music but it is still not solved. Nothing that I know of anyway.

We may be an advantage as Schlabbaduerst has actually been quite successfull in a VERY underground way.

[Guest D-Dave]

No no no, I didnt mean to say "advantage" in the last sentence and now I cant find the right word. Argh. *Searching for translator*.

AH!

Exception. Funny how your mind goes blank from time to time.

It should say "We may be an exception..."

[Guest hexaeon]

could you guys expand a bit more as to the difference between putting a track on a comp and releasing an entire album of your own stuff.

Also, when you sell a track to a label is it usually for exclusive use or not. If I sell a track to a label can I still use that track in an album for myself at a later date or sell it to another compilation.

 

Thanks in advance

[Guest Elysium Project]

There are many "models" but the most comon one is to release a artist CD album exclusively with one label and then the label license the individual tracks out to compilations ect.

 

You can both sell your individual track as a exclusiv track to one label's compilation release or try to license it out in diffrent regions (countries) of course exclusive to each region. I do not know of many labels that will say yes to buying a non-exclusive track and most will "demand" to get the track exclusively for the whole world.

 

Normally they pay from £. 200 - 1500 all according to the track quality and the name you have but it's most normal that a label in our scene pay around £. 400 - 500 (it's actually decreasing these days).

 

You will not be able to use the "exclusive" track on your album / CD without prior concent from the label. It's only possible if the album/CD is released with that label too.