Guest D-Dave Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Just wondering what you consider a good production to be like? Is it perfect sound quality or does it hold a few good ideas and interesting sounds, or something you never heard before? Is the production more important than the ideas behind the track? The soul if you like. I became a bit puzzled after a review of the new BotfB on psyreviews.com where the guy says he thinks Demonoizer sounds like two tracks at the same time where one track comes from another room. But he also thinks the production is bad and too 2-dimensional. Which is something I cant put together. If a track sounds all like that how can the production be bad? And if the goal was to make a weird, layered track isnt the sound of two tracks at the same time a pretty good achievement? We (BotfB) always got so much shit for our "bad" productions, since they werent clean enough. Right you are, we dont want perfect soundquality and clean sounds, we want a (dark but only sometimes) dirty confused mindboggling environment pushing the equipment to the maximum and preferrably over the top. That counts for the PA too, it should be played on 11. (Spinal Tap, yes I know, but still...) I mean, the most amazing times we had on the dancefloor was when we were completely wasted and the DJs too, in the morning, when the DJ had been pushing the volume up and up and up and the speakers were screaming. What it sounded like in our heads at that time was what we tried to achieve, with the night to day trip in mind, always building, always moving higher. Anyway, I think the most important thing about the production of a track isnt perfect soundquality, its that there is some thought behind it and some interesting ideas involved. And that you can DANCE to the track! What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Project Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 I totally agree that the most important thing is ideas and creativity. Without those factors it dosen't matter how good the sound production is...it will still be damn boring and without any "balls". But and there is a but. I always feel that you owe it to the people that buy your music (now I am talking strictly professional) to make an effort to make the best production as possible. No matter if you want it to sound dirty or polished. That's why I get a bit upset when people download and crack a program like Reason or Fruityloops and instantly think it's ok to release the music. In my mind the production is just too low and not at all suitable as an release...no matter how talented or creative the artist is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bugbread Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Well, I don't know the track, sorry, but: Of course the ideas are the most important. Nobody wants to hear crystal clear crap. However, in SOME cases, individual tones being really clear can sound amazing. I'm thinking of Infected Mushroom's live set, where the songs aren't nearly as complex as their older stuff, but the sounds are so well defined I often feel like I can touch them, like they're discrete objects. But the real long and short of it is: Make your music the way YOU want it to sound. If you don't care if the sound is fuzzy or crisp, then go with everyone else's suggestion to make it crisp. However, if you are making it a bit fuzzy on purpose, keep doing it. Don't change the parts you care about to satisfy others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soem aeld Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Hmm, I really can't listen to perfect music without a soul. And I really can't stand poor productions.. You can have perfect production that sounds dirty and still have a soul. Just listen to Tarmvred! Reason makes really crappy basses.. and everything feels really mixed up.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lurk Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 I think you're so called bad production is a bit of a myth... the 1st album just wasn't mastered well at all, and imho the second sounds a whole lot better because it was mastered properly. But i agree with the EP and bugbread, ideas are much more interesting and important than good production... just look at for example ;-)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 good "production" helps but should not be the focus... for example i can listen to the new planet b.e.n. and be boggled at how crisp and full those heavy kicks are, but the music doesnt move me. meanwhile i can get tunes from an impulse tracker mod stuck in my head because hey, music is music ya know! creativity > production (of course, creativity is enhanced greatly by good production!) on the topic of the buddhas and groups with a dirty sound... well if thats the intention then whats so wrong? "oh no, here's a song that doesnt have gms basslines !!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Firestorm Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 dear god, is the Botfb cd released yet??? Can I get my greedy little hands on it? Anyway, I love the dirty sound of the Buddhas or Ka-Sol, it usually sounds more raw and has more soul i think. But I get off to a crystal clear production too (new Logic Bomb), as long as the songwriting is good, but this kind of stuff is somehow more 'restrained' i guess......... The only thing that sucks about the buddhas sounds is that it pretty much sucks ass if one mixes it in a regular psy set........... but a full dark, raw Scando set fucking rocks though:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest D-Dave Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 I dont get it either. But sometimes we get really annoying reactions to our sound. Its like people demand electronic music to be really clear. But hey, listen to bands like Sonic Youth and My Bloody Valentine, they use a lot of effects and distortion and they made it their thing to sound fuzzy and dirty. No need for them to sound like...say Toto... Some trance acts are really the Totos of trance hehehe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest D-Dave Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 No the CD is not released yet, but Boom has sent some promos for reviews. I hope Anoebis will post his review soon... Lol, I agree it is hard to mix it with other "normal" psytrance tracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest i love music. Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Well, this is kinda hard to explain but music from BoTFB, Ka-Sol etc sounds so distant! The sounds isn't in-your-face, they are far away,.. analogish,... mysterious if you will... Makes my mental state of mind go happy & nuts For example: Battle of the future buddhas - Mr. Fantastic = Clean without massive "in-your-face"-britney-spears-production. Other good examples: Etnica - Starship 101... old Sandman stuff, Four Carry Nuts, Elysium - Ganesh etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest i love music. Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 I forgot to mention one track: Psychaos - Acidica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 the moment psytrance tracks are made to be easily mixed is when you have a trouble.. the fun of mixing this genre is the immense challenge - how do you bridge the gap? it takes more skills than the paint-by-numbers prog trance... i mean hey, i was completely suprised when i listened to a new atomic 12" and it started with just a simple beat.. come on, thats for cheezewank uk pushers and their ditzy broads, not us... er, right? go ka-sol! and dave, you haven't gotten back to my email of like 6 months ago!! ;P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest D-Dave Posted September 7, 2002 Share Posted September 7, 2002 Ahem...terribly sorry, could you send the mail again please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strumpling Posted September 8, 2002 Share Posted September 8, 2002 IMO things with the best "Production" kind of have everything - incredibly versitile and crisp-sounding noises, doing incredibly versitile and crisp-sounding interactions with all sorts of OTHER incredibly versitile and crisp-sounding noises. Also there are certain rhythms and chord-progressions that I really really enjoy.... Basically anything that can make somebody go "wow!" or "woah!" or "how'd they do that?" or whatever can be included in the category of "Good Production." -=- Matt/Strumpling -=- thats my opinion, anyway.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest r2d2 Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 I would take BOTFB and Ka-Sol with their mind melting psychedelia any time over crystal clear production of pointless "boing, boing,bang, boing.." made by many people today.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stringtheory Posted September 11, 2002 Share Posted September 11, 2002 Elysium...Well said my friend !!! I agree with what you said completely. And I think it is very cool that you as an artist understand the importance of trying to give the audience...who is buying the album.....the best possible production in reference to what you are trying to do with the tracks. Good Production simply means well produced. Something can sound dirty....but fit perfectly into what the artists is trying to achieve with the track. To me, good production is the quality of the sound. Something can sound dirty...but be very crisp at the same time. Production and Ideas go together. Ideas are most important. But good production is also paramount. So to state it simply.....produce the work in the best way that you can. If your attempt is to get a dirty feel to a track, you can still produce that dirty feel in the most precise possible way. The key is precision along with sound quality. D-Dave wrote: "Anyway, I think the most important thing about the production of a track isnt perfect soundquality, its that there is some thought behind it and some interesting ideas involved. And that you can DANCE to the track! What do you think?" I really disagree with the last part of this statement. Who cares whether or not you can dance to the track. Why would someone make a track for the sole purpose of someone being able to dance to it ?? Doesn't that stunt the creative process ?? Shouldn't the tracks be produced with the purpose of expressing some sort of artistic statement foremost...not just being produced so people can dance ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spindrift Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 I think the trance world actually could learn a lot from the pop world in these matters. In the 80's there was a trend to make really polished productions, strafing for perfection. What mainstream producers realize is that when they now had the possibilities to get a really perfect mix, they learned that if the aimed for that pll's ears would fall asleep at the radio. By on pupose leaving one or two instruments a bit off in level, actually that would make the listener to react and take notice of the track. Working with one succsessful rock/pop producer, he just set the levels very roughly, and then refuses to make any fine adjustments. That would make it end up dead he says... Listen to trance today......far too many band's is embracing the the technology with the same attitude as pop producers in the 80's. For me psychedelic music need to be a bit more daring than you average radio pop.....and very often today it's the opposite with the trance scene!!! But of course, you still need to have good quality sound, with the whole chain from synth, soundcard and sequencer, and have an ear for spectral balance, but you maybe don't need to spend hours fine adjusting levels, eq and compressors, because then you prolly end up with a very dead sound. Good on you Dave for the many years of excellent productions. Havent heard the latest botfb, but previously some of your tunes could be a bit dodgy.....but it's not easy to control the kind of wall of sound you guys produce, and when you get it absolutly right it is amazing. My final word on production is: Learn the rules, so you know how to break them well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.