Guest Elysium Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 After the long debate in my topic: I am Angry I decided it could be interesting to see what the organisers have to say. I always believe in a balanced debate so they should of course have the opportunity to defend themself. I am going to send them an open e-mail and publish it here. I will of course play with open cards and tell them it's a public e-mail. So what questions should I ask them? Any suggestion? Just notice it have to be about the relationship between artists and the organisers. Keep the questions critical please. I will be very critical and directly ask them why they decide not to pay some artist and pay too much to other artists, why they do not pay some artists travel expenses, why they put danceable artists on the chillout, why they treat less known artists with arrogance and sometimes direct rudeness etc. ect. So if you got any questions and are interested to hear their side of the story then post your questions. Labels will be up next after this one. Thanks Kris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pr0fane Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 I like the idea, but what organisers are you going to send it to? Everyone, or just those that you for a fact know are "the bad guys"? To be honest I sadly doubt you'll get any answers at all. But you'll never know before you try Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 The best way of doing this, is to keep it out of psynews, and open up a seperate page where you publish these emails. This way you keep irresponsible, and no confusion will rise, but you can also post the link on other forums (like isratrance or psyforum.co...). I like the idea though. I think it might work, if you make sure that you have the link with your letter to them in the email when you send it. This way they can SEE that you are meaning bussines, and that if they dont respond, a LOT of people will see it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 I like the idea, but what organisers are you going to send it to? Everyone, or just those that you for a fact know are "the bad guys"? To be honest I sadly doubt you'll get any answers at all. But you'll never know before you try 560242[/snapback] I will send it to every organiser I can find. Not only the ones I know are bad. Well I also had the thought that a lot of them wont answer me back. But hey then we know what kind of organisers they are The best way of doing this, is to keep it out of psynews, and open up a seperate page where you publish these emails. This way you keep irresponsible, and no confusion will rise, but you can also post the link on other forums (like isratrance or psyforum.co...). I like the idea though. I think it might work, if you make sure that you have the link with your letter to them in the email when you send it. This way they can SEE that you are meaning bussines, and that if they dont respond, a LOT of people will see it 560245[/snapback] yes good idea there I'll for sure use it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 (edited) My idea has somewhat expanded. I will also interview artists (big ones included) and hear their versions (bad or good). And maybe just maybe turn this into a "Black Book" of the scene. And when the organsiers "suddently" ask me to play (to silence me) I will report it in Publich and polite say "no thanks". P.S! I am sure I will gain some enemies. Also in the forums. But hey all things have a cost and it's not like I am not used to it And I truely believe this "venture" has a deeper meaning. At least I will departure with a BIG BANG and some stiring up things So Please if anyone got some good questions both to the organsiers and artists (no cheesy groupie questions please) then post it here or send it to me in private (for the chickenheads haha). Edited July 3, 2006 by Elysium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiph T. Elephant Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 I will be very critical and directly ask them why they decide not to pay some artist and pay too much to other artists, why they do not pay some artists travel expenses, why they put danceable artists on the chillout, why they treat less known artists with arrogance and sometimes direct rudeness etc. ect. 560219[/snapback] So are these going to be sort of "Have you stopped beating your wife?" questions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoebis Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 very critical and directly ask them why they decide not to pay some artist and pay too much to other artists, why they do not pay some artists travel expenses, why they put danceable artists on the chillout, why they treat less known artists with arrogance and sometimes direct rudeness etc. ect. 560219[/snapback] What about organisers that don't even CAN answer on these questions because they actually did everything you said they don't? I'm sure many organisers are actually taking their responsability... so I would say send this to organisers you know they are NOT paying artists, not to everyone... It would be pretty aggressive/offending to send this to someone that works hard to organise fair parties where everyone is getting paid... It's like sending a mail to all artists "why are you making such shitty music, and why did you sell your soul to money?" Just my 0.02... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 What about organisers that don't even CAN answer on these questions because they actually did everything you said they don't? I'm sure many organisers are actually taking their responsability... so I would say send this to organisers you know they are NOT paying artists, not to everyone... It would be pretty aggressive/offending to send this to someone that works hard to organise fair parties where everyone is getting paid... It's like sending a mail to all artists "why are you making such shitty music, and why did you sell your soul to money?" Just my 0.02... 560338[/snapback] When the website is ready you will see that the questiosn are very reasonable and fair and in order to make it a balanced "debate, information" I think it is important that all organisers get the chance to respond. Even those who are good guys. Things are not black and white and inputs are needed from all sides. And why would it be agressive? I think it is in everybody's interest to clean up the unfair mess and get a good debate going that might change things. I even think the organsiers would agree and would wish to make things better (or?). Well the good ones at least And if an organsier feel hit then he/she always have the right to not participate with an answer I think it's time to say stop and if someone get offended..Well bad luck..Sorry but maybe the artist have been too silent too long. And it's time to take the silk gloves off and fight a little. Oh and so it's all good and balanced.. there will also be questions and answers to labels and artists indeed..And also critical questions to artists too - Stars and no stars included. + a forum where it can all be debated. If anyone care Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTP Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 It's a good idea. But also I'm of the opinion that it's difficult to reach the right organizers... You know what I somewhat think? I think you'll get a load of responses like "we are good organizers, we always pay our artists, we never do bad and what a dork are you to actually think that we would not pay artists etc..." and the organizers who really got some shit on their stick will shut up and never reply a word to you Still, it's worth the try Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Can somone compile a list of organizers around the globe for me? I will then throw together a small php with a mysql database where you as an artist can vote for the organizer. Of course this would require the artist to register, because I bet there are many organizers that will vote that they are good or something haha Anyways, I think thats the way something like this should be started. Of course you have to have a disclaimer that your ip will be logged, and that you are NOT allowed to be associated with the organizer. Purely for gaining purposes Its a lot of work, but its a start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoebis Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 When the website is ready you will see that the questiosn are very reasonable and fair and in order to make it a balanced "debate, information" I think it is important that all organisers get the chance to respond. Even those who are good guys. Things are not black and white and inputs are needed from all sides. And why would it be agressive? I think it is in everybody's interest to clean up the unfair mess and get a good debate going that might change things. I even think the organsiers would agree and would wish to make things better (or?). Well the good ones at least And if an organsier feel hit then he/she always have the right to not participate with an answer I think it's time to say stop and if someone get offended..Well bad luck..Sorry but maybe the artist have been too silent too long. And it's time to take the silk gloves off and fight a little. Oh and so it's all good and balanced.. there will also be questions and answers to labels and artists indeed..And also critical questions to artists too - Stars and no stars included. + a forum where it can all be debated. If anyone care 560351[/snapback] ok, fair enough, if you ask black and white questions there will be no problem @ Nemo, if you would do something like that it would be a good idea indeed, and it's pretty easy indeed if you allow the artists to vote anonymous if they like... I can help you with Belgian organisations if you want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Can somone compile a list of organizers around the globe for me? I will then throw together a small php with a mysql database where you as an artist can vote for the organizer. Of course this would require the artist to register, because I bet there are many organizers that will vote that they are good or something haha Anyways, I think thats the way something like this should be started. Of course you have to have a disclaimer that your ip will be logged, and that you are NOT allowed to be associated with the organizer. Purely for gaining purposes Its a lot of work, but its a start 560495[/snapback] That's a very good idea (logging the IP and stuff). First of all that no friends of the organisers can write promotional texts. But I think it's also important to know who is the one complaining. I mean this would be the ultimate chance for a no-name DJ/artist to push himself when he is talking shit about organisers or labels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoebis Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 That's a very good idea (logging the IP and stuff). First of all that no friends of the organisers can write promotional texts. But I think it's also important to know who is the one complaining. I mean this would be the ultimate chance for a no-name DJ/artist to push himself when he is talking shit about organisers or labels. 560539[/snapback] Yes, I think the should have to option to vote anonymous and NOT anonymous, why? I understand that, if a famous artists talks shit about a big festival, he will have less gigs, if he can vote anonymous this problem is solved... But if he wants to do it openly, even better of course... Otherwise I think a page like this for labels is maybe more necessary, I hear more shit about labels then about parties... Also party organisers shift ALL the time, I organised parties with at least 10-15 different people in my life already while a label has mostly a "fixed" crew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETOX Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 As an organiser myself i guess i cant propose any questions but i will be glad to answer whatever i might be asked. As we say in my country 'A clear sky is not afraid of the lightings'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 The website and forum Now I just need to get the e-mails away and we are rolling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ov3rdos3 Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 The website and forum Now I just need to get the e-mails away and we are rolling. 560672[/snapback] I think there is a simple answer to your question Kris: Money. (unfortunately). Organisers only want to have music that MOST candy ravers want to listen to. There are more candy ravers and psyretards at festivals / parties than there is people who know good psy. That is why they want full-on and Big name DJ's. all at 145bpm. Its because your style has not conformed to the formulatic cut and paste shit that is the "flavour of the month" at the moment. Whatever is most popular seems to get signed. But who decides whats popular you ask? The 5000 17 year olds with dummies in their mouths. Unfortuantely. It sucks dude, it really does. But IMO, that is the reason behind all of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Maybe all it comes down to in the end is just taste, and we are too damn picky... yeah that might be the case. Boycot I would say then Lets make our own parties, own records, own drugs and own babies... errr I DID make my own parties, own records and I have a baby!! I will continue with that, and NO party of mine will EVER have The GodFather of Psy playing!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 I think there is a simple answer to your question Kris: Money. (unfortunately). Organisers only want to have music that MOST candy ravers want to listen to. There are more candy ravers and psyretards at festivals / parties than there is people who know good psy. That is why they want full-on and Big name DJ's. all at 145bpm. Its because your style has not conformed to the formulatic cut and paste shit that is the "flavour of the month" at the moment. Whatever is most popular seems to get signed. But who decides whats popular you ask? The 5000 17 year olds with dummies in their mouths. Unfortuantely. It sucks dude, it really does. But IMO, that is the reason behind all of this. 560680[/snapback] Agree but yet the organisers, labels and artists have a huge responsability to educate these kids. If you only get what the organisers, labels and artists "think" you like then how on earth are you ever going to learn about other artists and different kind of music? My experience has shown me that once these kids are so lucky to get to listen to other music that does not fit the stereoptype category these days they actually do like it a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ov3rdos3 Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Agree but yet the organisers, labels and artists have a huge responsability to educate these kids. If you only get what the organisers, labels and artists "think" you like then how on earth are you ever going to learn about other artists and different kind of music? My experience has shown me that once these kids are so lucky to get to listen to other music that does not fit the stereoptype category these days they actually do like it a lot. 560688[/snapback] Do you think they care about "educating people on good music"?? The only thing they care about is lining their pockets with cash. thats it. I dont think the organisers themselves even give a damn about the scene, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Do you think they care about "educating people on good music"?? The only thing they care about is lining their pockets with cash. thats it. I dont think the organisers themselves even give a damn about the scene, 560689[/snapback] Maybe, maybe not but I do think it's time for some of us to rumble a bit and make those in the audience that do care aware of what's going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krelmatrix Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Can somone compile a list of organizers around the globe for me? I will then throw together a small php with a mysql database where you as an artist can vote for the organizer. Honestly, I think this could be a bad idea unless you: 1. Make it *not* anonymous 2. Require comments/justification for any sort of negative feedback The reason I say this is because there are a lot of reasons why a particular DJ/artist might dislike an organizer that would not be a true reflection on anything actually having to do with their value/honesty as an organizer. I've had DJs get bitchy with me when I've asked them to provide a demo CD. Not world-famous superstah DJs, mind you, but "Johnny no-names" who contacted me through or website, who I've never heard of before, and who I would like to get an idea of what they sound like before I even consider booking them. I've had local DJs talk shit behind my back because they didn't think I was booking them enough. The same thing happened to a friend of mine who also organized parties, except that one particular DJ took it a step further and enlisted all of his friends and even his damn wife to constantly harass my friend (and his wife also) too book him. I've had unbooked DJs who have tried to force their way into the lineup (also often using their friends to exert added pressure) that we've had to deal with in less than polite ways (nothing violent). I've had video/projection artists show up at the entrance with their projector and several friends, with no previous contact, expecting not only to be let in for free, but for us to let them set up their gear simply because they are friends of one of the DJs. OK, this only happened once, but the guy was rather pissed when I wouldn't let him in. There have been times where we have had to make last-minute changes to the lineup due to DJs not showing up as a result of sickness, arrest, car accidents or general flakiness, and a DJ in the lineup was unhappy with the unavoidable change. I've had DJs who for whatever reason had to miss a gig and instead of notifying me of their absence (even if they know long in advance), send a friend of theirs to take their place without warning to me. I've seen live acts or DJs who play both uptempo and chill, were booked on the chill stage for a particular party under the original agreement to play a chill set, then decide at the last minute to play uptempo (against the very clear original agreement) to show the organizer that they should have been booked on the main stage anyways. The list goes on....all of these things are incidents that have happened either to myself or one good friend of mine (who organized parties in a nearby city) over the course of 8-10 years of organizing events. I keep it to my group and this guy's group since we always made it a point to be 100% professional with anybody we booked, whether they were world-famous DJ Superstah or our buddy driving up from another city a couple hours away. We always made financial/travel/technical arrangments with any DJ at the time of booking and stuck with it 100%. We booked diverse, creative lineups and made it a point to change up the DJs from party to party. These weren't even mega-events - mostly small 50-400 person events (in only one case 1000+). I'm sure that anybody who organizes larger events on any sort of regular basis has to deal with this sort of shit much more than we ever did. But still, in the course of it all, you deal with DJs or artists with their heads so far up their asses and their egoes so far in the sky that they will find some fault with you even for no reason whatsoever. Would these people go onto some sort of forum and anonymously write unwarranted shit about a organizer who really did nothing wrong except not play to their ego? Quite probably so. The point of it..... Don't make it anonymous - make them give their DJ/artist name. If people have a legitimate complaint, then they don't have to hide behind the veil of anonymity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 And that's why we need a international debate krellmatrix.. a balanced one seen from all sides. No one said the artist are angels but I am an artists so of cousre i see it from my point of view as you see it from yours.. But maybe just maybe all over debate could help things along... Or maybe I am dead naive...At least then i will have caused a stir and maybe a little thinking too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krelmatrix Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 The website and forum Now I just need to get the e-mails away and we are rolling. 560672[/snapback] No offense Kris, but I honestly think you should work on the questions a bit before you shoot them off to a bunch of people. Reading through the questions you wrote for the 3 categories (artists, organizers and labels), it comes off in a somewhat accusative way towards the organizers and labels, and is asking the artists mostly about the ways they've been victimized or dicked over by organizers/labels. It reads a bit like a political questionaire on Foxnews. I actually think your general idea is a good one - it's a really good idea to have open dialogue between the artists and the people who book them or sign their tracks (and also educational to the people who see it all from the outside), but IMO it should really be more balanced. There are times when organizers and labels have to deal with a lot of crap from unprofessional artists. Ask about those as well. (I would recommend some questions myself, but I have to run off in about 7 minutes ) Agree but yet the organisers, labels and artists have a huge responsability to educate these kids. Do people on the dancefloor really care about being "educated"? People go to the university for an education. People go to a party to dance, have fun, do drugs...whatever else. Labels? Most of them (excluding TIPWorld & Chemical Crew, naturally ) are so busy trying to stay afloat that it's hard for them to do much more than release music they think is cool. I had a long post half-written for you original "I'm Angry" thread, but didn't have the chance to finish before the topic was already kind of done..... But the point of it was that if you are really looking for a genuine drive for creativity, you are going to have to give up on the big parties/festivals and big labels. I'm not going to generalize to say that they are all greedy, but money does figure in much more when the venture is larger. Which means they have to be more concerned with "mass appeal" rather than trying something new. Which means creativity often goes out the window. I'd personally love to book somebody like Voice of Cod in a party in my city - and I think they would be well accepted - but the parties are too damn small to not lose a bundle on their travel and fees. It's both a benefit and a curse to be involved with smaller parties with a more adventurous and open crowd - you can more or less try whatever the hell you want, but you don't have the money to try much of anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krelmatrix Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 And that's why we need a international debate krellmatrix.. Which I do agree with....just not anonymous. The anonymous nature of the internet is one of its greatest downfalls, IMO, since anybody can spew bullshit and nobody will know who they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 (edited) No offense Kris, but I honestly think you should work on the questions a bit before you shoot them off to a bunch of people. Reading through the questions you wrote for the 3 categories (artists, organizers and labels), it comes off in a somewhat accusative way towards the organizers and labels, and is asking the artists mostly about the ways they've been victimized or dicked over by organizers/labels. It reads a bit like a political questionaire on Foxnews. Well I see it from my point of view. I never said I dont. And as I made sure to write all over.. They are more than welcome to come with their input.. It's an open debate and everybody are welcome to state their point of view.. thats also why there is a open forum And I also do believe I was critical against the artists too by asking them about their role in ruining it for other artists when they agree to not get paid and pay their own tickets. Edit. And yes please provide me with some questions.. That's actually what i started out by asking you guys Edited July 3, 2006 by Elysium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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