Guest Elysium Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 (edited) There's been countless topics about Skazi and IM and the horror they represent. I have been thinking a little bit about the whole phenomena and reached the conclusion that at the end of the day nobody can really blame Skazi, Eskimo or IM for what they do. As much as I dislike their music and their attitude they are products of what people want to see and as such they do have a valid reason to excist. You have to dig much further and look at what kind of people the scene attract today. I wont get into a long rant about what ideas and vision's this scene was build on but let's just say that today's scene and audience is as far as possible away from what the basic ideas used to be. My conclusion is that the visions behind psytrance/goa indeed are stone cold dead and that it is a waste of time to point fingers at anyone. My conclusion is also that talk comes cheap and action and change is for those who bitch less and act more. Personally I could not care less if psy/goa is dead. To me it's sweet memories that at one point in my life and musical career gave me a lot but as everything else in live the show must go on. I have found my "new" show. Have you? Discuss. PS! Spammers please stay away with your "smart" comments and photos. Thanks Edited August 21, 2006 by Elysium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 I agree with you. If something is dead (not matter whose fault it is in the end) for you, you have to move on. I guess this is hard to do if somethign that really mattered to you know is out of date or if it has changed so much that you can not longer identify with. So far this isn't happening with psy for me. I love the old goa sound but I also see enough new releases that suit me. I also don't mind the people I meet at the parties so I'm still happy. But maybe also for me the time might come when I have to move on, who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ov3rdos3 Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Ive always said I agree with this. I hate the fans, far more than the artist. I mean whats worse, Skazi playing one of his god aweful sets, or a bunch of glowstick candy ravers grooving to his "excellent " music? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTP Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Yes, the crowds are actually worse than the artists playing the awful music. But who was responsible for intitially CREATING the awful music? Always the ARTIST, never the crowd! The initial command to this downfall was given by an ARTIST! The crowd just followed! I concentrate my hate about everything - about the crowd, the awful music, the commercialisation of the scene and the loss of the magic - on one thing: the person on stage playing the crap! Even though he's just part of the system and not the root of the evil. In truth the drugs are responsible. For they make people become those brainless zombie crowd followers! (that was a joke ... but meant with a grain of truth ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 I just wonder one thing: why does there have to be one special thing/person/reason that is responsible for what is happening in the scene? Why do we always want somebody to take the blame so we can hate him? I mean it doesn't change anything anyway so why not rather move one (as Elysium suggested) than hate your live away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTP Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 I just wonder one thing: why does there have to be one special thing/person/reason that is responsible for what is happening in the scene? Why do we always want somebody to take the blame so we can hate him? I mean it doesn't change anything anyway so why not rather move one (as Elysium suggested) than hate your live away? 591220[/snapback] I don't hate my life away In fact I don't even care so much. But I'm of the opinion it's rather more reasonable to question who's sitting closer to the root and producing the shit than to question the people that eat it. Blaming the crowds is not really leading anywhere either because there are enough candy ravers out there who would be satisfied with even less intelligent music, so you can always go further towards the bottom... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 I don't hate my life away In fact I don't even care so much. But I'm of the opinion it's rather more reasonable to question who's sitting closer to the root and producing the shit than to question the people that eat it. Blaming the crowds is not really leading anywhere either because there are enough candy ravers out there who would be satisfied with even less intelligent music, so you can always go further towards the bottom... 591235[/snapback] I was not really talking directly about you! More about a general behaviour... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Blaming the crowds is not really leading anywhere either because there are enough candy ravers out there who would be satisfied with even less intelligent music, so you can always go further towards the bottom... 591235[/snapback] Actually i totally disagree. No matter all the fine intentions and fine words and all the fingerpointing blaming artist for all horrors. At the end of the day its the Audience that decide what is "good" or not "good". It's exactly as when you stand in a Supermarket and have to decide what food to buy. We all know echological products are best but do we buy them? Most don't and still buy the cheapest offer they can get. It's all up to the consumers to decide what flies and what don't. And right now the audience decide that IM, Skazi, Eskimo etc. are the "hot" potatoes. Who are we to say to them (the artists) not to go for it and make the most out of it? If suddently 20000 people thought my prog. house was THE THING and I did not make the best out of it for the short time I was at my "peak". Then I would be a sad stupid fool who missed my opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Good point Elysium! Besides that, who do we think we are to decide for other people what to hear or not?! I mean we can try to educate them and show them "better" music but in the end it's up to the personal taste if they open up for other stuff than the well-known acts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Good point Elysium! Besides that, who do we think we are to decide for other people what to hear or not?! I mean we can try to educate them and show them "better" music but in the end it's up to the personal taste if they open up for other stuff than the well-known acts. 591241[/snapback] Exactly and then if they like it's up to them to open up their ears to what alternative artists play. That's all anyone can do and should do. Trying to force opinions and taste down people's throats is never the way to go. That's why i wrote: talk comes cheap and action and change is for those who bitch less and act more. It's easy to continue complaining and point fingers. The true devoted that truely want a change act and talk less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 talk comes cheap and action and change is for those who bitch less and act more. It's easy to continue complaining and point fingers. The true devoted that truely want a change act and talk less. 591246[/snapback] Act how? Go and teach what is right and wrong to trancers,like a modern Jesus.And then get crucified for Asher's sins? When people are totally based on drugs and,of course,their stupidity i dont think anyone could do anything to "help". You just dont care.Or laugh at them once in a while. The "true devoted" .... sounds funny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Act how? Go and teach what is right and wrong to trancers,like a modern Jesus.And then get crucified for Asher's sins? When people are totally based on drugs and,of course,their stupidity i dont think anyone could do anything to "help". You just dont care.Or laugh at them once in a while. The "true devoted" .... sounds funny 591252[/snapback] I dont think you got my point No I dont believe in anyone preaching about their taste. What I meant is that it's so damn easy to complain instead of going out and do your thing showing the world you have something to offer too (here i talk about music creation). That is not to be a modern "Jesus" at all. It's to do what you feel like doing and if some people think it's cool what you do then that's fine too. Nobody have to preach or "educate" at all. There is room for everybody and if you do something because you love it (as I am sure Skazi, IM and Eskimo do too) then that is all you need to justify what you do. To me "Devoted" represent someone that believe in him/herself and do what he/she really burn for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraph Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 In truth the drugs are responsible. For they make people become those brainless zombie crowd followers! (that was a joke ... but meant with a grain of truth ) 591217[/snapback] Euhm, no. Ever since the beginnings of electronic culture the drugs were involved and I don't think that at those times people were brainless zombies following their idols banging their heads while demented on drugs. But I see your point cause many youngsters are doing far more and worse drugs than ever so they behave INSANE on parties... I cannot blame drugs, nor the artists, I blame the crowd cause the crowd is dictating the scene. Do you think that any of the pioneers want to make THE SAME music as the rest ? I don't think so, they make music cause they expect the crowd to drink it without even considering their input, they make music for the masses, that is unfortunately the truth, the scene turned commerical and that's what it is... I decided to quit being SOUR GRAPE and now moved onto complete different types of music, not caring about the trance at all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 decided to quit being SOUR GRAPE and now moved onto complete different types of music, not caring about the trance at all... 591255[/snapback] I am proud of you And I do agree about the drugs. They have always been there all along the way. The difference is how they were used then and now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraph Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 I am proud of you And I do agree about the drugs. They have always been there all along the way. The difference is how they were used then and now. 591258[/snapback] Tell me Chris, but honestly, haven't you experienced the same sourness before when the scene started turning into mass product ? You keep telling us how we shouldn't feel bitter but I am sure that you felt the same back in 2000... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Tell me Chris, but honestly, haven't you experienced the same sourness before when the scene started turning into mass product ? You keep telling us how we shouldn't feel bitter but I am sure that you felt the same back in 2000... 591261[/snapback] Come on now my name is Kris with a "K".. You should know (just joking mate ) Yes for a long time I bitched and was angry and bitter at what I saw and thought the way was to bitch more and point my fingers at the "bad" seeds. But we all do our mistakes and become wiser and I realised I could do squat. Then I started to seek other musical inspirations and actually seek back to my roots which is not psy but House (I started with House in London in 1990). And along the way I found myself very dedicated again and totally inspired again (call it re-born if you wish). Something i had not felt for a long time in the psyscene. So yes I bitched for a long time but at one point the bitching has to stop and life has to move on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraph Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Come on now my name is Kris with a "K".. You should know (just joking mate ) Yes for a long time I bitched and was angry and bitter at what I saw and thought the way was to bitch more and point my fingers at the "bad" seeds. But we all do our mistakes and become wiser and I realised I could do squat. Then I started to seek other musical inspirations and actually seek back to my roots which is not psy but House (I started with House in London in 1990). And along the way I found myself very dedicated again and totally inspired again (call it re-born if you wish). Something i had not felt for a long time in the psyscene. So yes I bitched for a long time but at one point the bitching has to stop and life has to move on 591264[/snapback] Ok, now we made it clear...so you have to understand us, younger ones ( ) cause it is our time to bitch now... but as I said, I quit bitching not too long ago cause I've also seen that is going nowhere except draining my brain around it. THE SCENE IS FUCKED, END OF STORY. I am sad, but that is the obviously the way it should be, not everything this brilliant lasts for ages. And, yes, I am sorry for calling you Chris, I've forgot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 (edited) Ok, now we made it clear...so you have to understand us, younger ones ( ) cause it is our time to bitch now... Younger ones? haha Yes of course people have the right to bitch all they want. It would be quite stupid of me to say they should not when I too was a master of bithing about the situation oi the scene. But I do think it's wrong to always blame the artists. And who of us know what any artist think? Yes some probably do it for the "fame" and "money (btw. what money?). And some do it because they love music and need to be creative. But can any of us sit here and tell who's who? I can't so I have stopped bitching about those's music or attitude I find irritating. Simply because they might just as me be into making music because they love it and can't live without making music and perform. Edited August 21, 2006 by Elysium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraph Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Younger ones? haha 591272[/snapback] Ummm, yeah, there is 11 years difference between you and me... or 13... have no idea... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 THE SCENE IS FUCKED, END OF STORY. 591270[/snapback] Thats the point of the whole point (wwhat?) Even talking about it is pointless,i agree with you Kris with a K,and yes i got your point i just found that jesus thought funny,but i hope you noticed that most people acted with staying away from the scene ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Ummm, yeah, there is 11 years difference between you and me... or 13... have no idea... 591273[/snapback] Point taken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 but i hope you noticed that most people acted with staying away from the scene ... True and it might seem as if those who stay away have abandoned the "ship". But have they really? To me they just moved on to something better for them and it's perfectly ok. Does anyone have to stay the same and do the same for x years? Life would be damn boing if we go stuck in the same loop. I am having a blast with my new music and i am very creative right now with a new downbeat CD almost done and many prog/electro tracks ready too. And I finally even opened up my own online label which I wanted to do for years (I have 100% control over my own music now.... and i love it). All this only happened because i finally took the step and moved on. My point is. If I had not done the move I would have been stuck in the same bitching and bitternes. Now I moved on and wonderful things start to happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el brujo Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 The general scene may be fucked but as I always say there is still the underground things are still going really nice not much changed anyways what grew out from underground back in the day grew out and became something else we didnt care, and still dont, because it is something else but what we had (the idea, the vibe whatever you call it) is still with us So what I basically say this was a small scene and it still is, but its reflection which took even some of its artists on its boat is the one that you re bitching about, fuck it dont care it is something else... Like I say wherever I go I always find good free parties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTP Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 many youngsters are doing far more and worse drugs than ever so they behave INSANE on parties... 591255[/snapback] and that's what I meant with the drug half-joke there above ... yes, you can't blame the drugs, but the people... at one point the bitching has to stop and life has to move on 591264[/snapback] And this is something I agree with. As much as you bitch and moan, you can't change a thing and you just contribute to an overall worse vibe. The only thing I can do against the crowds and their horrible music taste of now is just not to go to venues where this music is played and just to go out of the way of such people. Just as I don't go to RnB venues, because I don't like RnB ... there is no real other alternative. Although I still hate Skazi, Ass-kimo, Arsetricks and their minions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraph Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Although I still hate Skazi, Ass-kimo, Arsetricks and their minions 591283[/snapback] Arsestricks, firt time I hear it... funny... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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