reger Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 well the thing with dj software imo also is that every kid can put his hands on one, and then there are thousands of wannabe djs who actually would never ever make it to the stage if not for software, dont get me wrong, i dont want to ban software, i believe that it also helps young and talented/hard working people to emerge as a good djs if they have no access to real hardware like cdjs or vinyl players . so, at the end, software is here to stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Whatever the dj uses, if he does a good job, doesnt matter, does it? I am actually playing around a little bit with Traktor, and I must say I like it more and more. Someone said, Yeah but it calculates the BPM for you and everything... well Newsflash, most of the sophisticated mixers and cd players out there do as well! I dont know, but sometimes we need to follow and adjust. Someone said years ago, that vinyls will never die.... but I think they will (Sadly enough) in the end! There is no Market anymore.... And lets face it, as a dj, I hate to carry cds and heavy vinyl with me... I think if I could actually maneuver the laptop the same way that I maneuver a mixer (there is this new mixer yes I know...) then I would probably change.... Imagine coming to a gig, all that you have is a dvd with all your tracks, and then you put that in the computer at hand, and off you go.... The FUTURE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krell Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 well the thing with dj software imo also is that every kid can put his hands on one, and then there are thousands of wannabe djs who actually would never ever make it to the stage if not for software, dont get me wrong, i dont want to ban software, i believe that it also helps young and talented/hard working people to emerge as a good djs if they have no access to real hardware like cdjs or vinyl players . so, at the end, software is here to stay. 621131[/snapback] I dont think there is any problem, at all, with music presentation, or music creation, tools becoming more accessible. There is no problem with wannabe djs either, I love the fact that people want to become good at something and learn it. Participation is a good thing, and the spreading of the knowledge of djing and production to as many people as possible will only help raise the bar for the respective arts. What I dont like is music production, or djing, being a playground for the rich and fortunate. Therefore, I find the evolution into software to be a grand equalizer, and something that will enrich not only our culture, but the global music culture as a whole. Im sure, for now, there will be no substitute for "real hardware", afterall, notebook, controllers and so forth are just that - hardware. With the introduction of better software, the hardware will allow us to interface with music much more effeciently. Today, the hardware is the jog wheel, the buttons and so forth and the software is what we see in the LCD display.. Time left, Pitch, Track No etc. Very primitive. In the future, the display becomes far more refined, while a lot of the hardware will probably look the same, since it will need to fill the same roles. I dont think anyone will choose using a notebook over a decent controller - cd players, turntables and all that, its going out the window within the next 10-20 years. By then, its going to be all software controlled by new fancy hardware controllers, and its gonna kick ass. Todays djing is going to be absolutely lame in comparison, I have no doubt :-) So, dont just see software as something to practice on - Also, put emphasis on the fact that software needs hardware controllers (untill mind control devices become more effective). So, yeah, hardware is needed - but since most of the functions, effects and computing power will be a part of the software bundle, the hardware prices should reflect that. In the end, its not the hardware that will make the difference - its the person who operates it, and the more options that person has, the more art he will be able to create... so, once more, I think its something we all should support, instead of putting the people who are pioneering these developments down. - Krell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 I dont think there is any problem, at all, with music presentation, or music creation, tools becoming more accessible. There is no problem with wannabe djs either, I love the fact that people want to become good at something and learn it. Participation is a good thing, and the spreading of the knowledge of djing and production to as many people as possible will only help raise the bar for the respective arts. What I dont like is music production, or djing, being a playground for the rich and fortunate. Therefore, I find the evolution into software to be a grand equalizer, and something that will enrich not only our culture, but the global music culture as a whole. Im sure, for now, there will be no substitute for "real hardware", afterall, notebook, controllers and so forth are just that - hardware. With the introduction of better software, the hardware will allow us to interface with music much more effeciently. Today, the hardware is the jog wheel, the buttons and so forth and the software is what we see in the LCD display.. Time left, Pitch, Track No etc. Very primitive. In the future, the display becomes far more refined, while a lot of the hardware will probably look the same, since it will need to fill the same roles. I dont think anyone will choose using a notebook over a decent controller - cd players, turntables and all that, its going out the window within the next 10-20 years. By then, its going to be all software controlled by new fancy hardware controllers, and its gonna kick ass. Todays djing is going to be absolutely lame in comparison, I have no doubt :-) So, dont just see software as something to practice on - Also, put emphasis on the fact that software needs hardware controllers (untill mind control devices become more effective). So, yeah, hardware is needed - but since most of the functions, effects and computing power will be a part of the software bundle, the hardware prices should reflect that. In the end, its not the hardware that will make the difference - its the person who operates it, and the more options that person has, the more art he will be able to create... so, once more, I think its something we all should support, instead of putting the people who are pioneering these developments down. - Krell 621154[/snapback] With posts like this, I see that there are more people out there that are totally spot on than just the few that I know personally. Very good written, and I totally am with you... You want to become a writer for NEO!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krell Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Whatever the dj uses, if he does a good job, doesnt matter, does it? I am actually playing around a little bit with Traktor, and I must say I like it more and more. 621147[/snapback] Whatever works works :-) I try out mixes and experiment with combinations in traktor - I dont use the autobpm feature, I do it all myself, sounds better I think and keeps me awake. I can do it with the mouse, but you can also buy a controller, which makes it all a lot faster. If I was using a controller, and I had access to 24bit 96Khz material, coming out through my shit ass expensive sound card (that would put most CDjs to shame), I would use the new combination any day now. For now, its just much easier to play around with the music while lying on the couch relaxing, than being bend over the mixer and my cdjs all the time :-) Imagine coming to a gig, all that you have is a dvd with all your tracks, and then you put that in the computer at hand, and off you go.... The FUTURE! Take it one step further. Imagin showing up to your gig, you log on to the mixing console (which is sort of a hybrid hardware unit with controllers, screens, knobs and stuff to control software) - Then, you enter your username and password and are logged on to your dj account at your music provider. It loads your person preferences, and you pick your first track, which is streamed over the internet, into the console. All you pay is a licensing fee for playing that track (perhaps its even only the venue that pays, and you just get paid for your selections and what you do on the fly then and there). So - What do you bring to the event ? Just yourself :-) What access to music do you have on site ? TOTAL ! Its all there... ready for you to use :-) No tedious waiting for the CDs to arrive before the gig, wondering if you will be able to get that critical release you want to spin... oh no, when its out, its there... - Krell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krell Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 With posts like this, I see that there are more people out there that are totally spot on than just the few that I know personally. Very good written, and I totally am with you... You want to become a writer for NEO!? 621157[/snapback] Im affraid Im a bit swamped already, with electrobeat.dk - takes too much of my time (and we are about to upgrade to include articles and other stuff). Still, who knows :-) If something comes up. - Krell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Krell you rule Nice posts mate, all of 'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Whatever works works :-) I try out mixes and experiment with combinations in traktor - I dont use the autobpm feature, I do it all myself, sounds better I think and keeps me awake. I can do it with the mouse, but you can also buy a controller, which makes it all a lot faster. If I was using a controller, and I had access to 24bit 96Khz material, coming out through my shit ass expensive sound card (that would put most CDjs to shame), I would use the new combination any day now. For now, its just much easier to play around with the music while lying on the couch relaxing, than being bend over the mixer and my cdjs all the time :-) Take it one step further. Imagin showing up to your gig, you log on to the mixing console (which is sort of a hybrid hardware unit with controllers, screens, knobs and stuff to control software) - Then, you enter your username and password and are logged on to your dj account at your music provider. It loads your person preferences, and you pick your first track, which is streamed over the internet, into the console. All you pay is a licensing fee for playing that track (perhaps its even only the venue that pays, and you just get paid for your selections and what you do on the fly then and there). So - What do you bring to the event ? Just yourself :-) What access to music do you have on site ? TOTAL ! Its all there... ready for you to use :-) No tedious waiting for the CDs to arrive before the gig, wondering if you will be able to get that critical release you want to spin... oh no, when its out, its there... - Krell 621159[/snapback] Yeah, damn, I wish I wassnt 32 though, that sounds too far ahead in time I wish to see it happen though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Damn nice posts Krell! I'm not even skilled enough to be called bedroom DJ but I really like your point of view, also from the listener/partygoes point of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fohat Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 So many good points in your postings @krell :-) The thing with Traktor is easy: It has without any reason a very bad reputation and the so called DJ's spinning with cd's are bitching all the time about it, that only through word of mouth everybody "knows" that spinning with Traktor is: - pressing a button and let it run automatically - let the software beat match - let the software pitch bend - let the software find perfect transition points between tracks - let the software select the tracks - let the software find out the correct keys for combining two tracks harmonically - let the software set the loops and jump around within the same and/or other cued tracks - let the software do kind of live remixes - let the software mix with 3 or even 4 decks Somebody using Traktor or other DJ Software cannot be called a DJ!!!!!! And yes, all the CD DJ's out there just playing tracks in a row (that's what 95% of all DJ's do) are the real ones. They never write down the BPM values, beat matching has to be an art or let's say it is the most important art of a DJ Set. Ah and before i forget it: It is also way of uncool to play on 800's or 1000's because within these it is possible to adjust the tempo very accurate to make long transitions (or what ever). No the only accepeted tool to play is with the 100's. Because within these the real DJ can show another very important skill: Beeing able to pitch all the time! That's hand's on and not just pressing buttons on a midi controller. Real DJ'ing is starting *after* being able to beatmatch not within! That means I don't give a sh*it how somebody get's to the point of beat matching two tracks. The interesting is part is what does the Dj do then! Ah I cannot argue anymore with anybody bitching about Traktor DJ's. But funny enough this never happens with the organizers, cause they just ask for skilled sets with good music! They don't give a shit about the gear. It's only the DJ's complaining. And when asking them what do they know about Traktor in 100% of the cases they answer: I tried it out the other day for a couple of minutes to find out it is crap. Skilled guys, no doubt about it! Paul van Dyke or DJ Hell are bad DJ's then! Or the other way round: If somebody shows up with a laptop and Traktor and f*cks up the whole party cause of a really bad set, is it the bad software? It's all about skills doesn't matter what somebody is using! On a sidenote: In spinning with Ableton Live things are totally different. It is cool to use Ableton. Why? Because Ableton has a very good reputation. Nobody cares that it is not the perfect DJ tool: It needs a lot of preparation (with almost predefined sets) and is quite unhandy (from the visual point of view and from the dj perspective). just my experience and my two cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jikkenteki Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 he he, good one ! how about this kind of evolution - djs stay home and broadcast their mix from their home/studio to the party 621108[/snapback] I actually did this once a couple years back for a house party my friends in a different prefecture were having. I hooked my mixer up though MSN Messenger and they played it over their system at the party. Was kind of funny really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 I dont think there is any problem, at all, with music presentation, or music creation, tools becoming more accessible. There is no problem with wannabe djs either, I love the fact that people want to become good at something and learn it. Participation is a good thing, and the spreading of the knowledge of djing and production to as many people as possible will only help raise the bar for the respective arts. What I dont like is music production, or djing, being a playground for the rich and fortunate. Therefore, I find the evolution into software to be a grand equalizer, and something that will enrich not only our culture, but the global music culture as a whole. Im sure, for now, there will be no substitute for "real hardware", afterall, notebook, controllers and so forth are just that - hardware. With the introduction of better software, the hardware will allow us to interface with music much more effeciently. Today, the hardware is the jog wheel, the buttons and so forth and the software is what we see in the LCD display.. Time left, Pitch, Track No etc. Very primitive. In the future, the display becomes far more refined, while a lot of the hardware will probably look the same, since it will need to fill the same roles. I dont think anyone will choose using a notebook over a decent controller - cd players, turntables and all that, its going out the window within the next 10-20 years. By then, its going to be all software controlled by new fancy hardware controllers, and its gonna kick ass. Todays djing is going to be absolutely lame in comparison, I have no doubt :-) So, dont just see software as something to practice on - Also, put emphasis on the fact that software needs hardware controllers (untill mind control devices become more effective). So, yeah, hardware is needed - but since most of the functions, effects and computing power will be a part of the software bundle, the hardware prices should reflect that. In the end, its not the hardware that will make the difference - its the person who operates it, and the more options that person has, the more art he will be able to create... so, once more, I think its something we all should support, instead of putting the people who are pioneering these developments down. - Krell 621154[/snapback] yes, its all person, PERSON, not parrot . ok then let me be little bit specific here - wannabe posers with superstar attitude, thats what i dont like yes, totally agree, hooray to software for that ! I actually did this once a couple years back for a house party my friends in a different prefecture were having. I hooked my mixer up though MSN Messenger and they played it over their system at the party. Was kind of funny really. 621319[/snapback] nice and funny ! wasnt msn slow tho? what bitrate ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike A Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 just a note - there is no conversion when burning wav files to cd. tracks on cd are identical copies to wavs on your hd. if there are any differences, that's because you don't know how to burn or don't know how to extract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alleycat Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 IDK, I use Windows Media Player to burn, and it always converts, I guess IDK how to burn. ANd a wav is technically a recording or an output of a program, the raw data in the program, like what you hear when you're making a track at home, is better sounding than the output, Ive noticed. Maybe IDK how to do that either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lepton Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 IDK, I use Windows Media Player to burn, and it always converts, I guess IDK how to burn. ANd a wav is technically a recording or an output of a program, the raw data in the program, like what you hear when you're making a track at home, is better sounding than the output, Ive noticed. Maybe IDK how to do that either. 621718[/snapback] whatever you do don't use windows media player .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike A Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 media player god forbid!!!! what's wrong with it? microsoft made it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTP Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 So, who are these Djs who just press play on a lap top and do nothing live there at all anymore ? And are you SURE they are not doing anything ? 620952[/snapback] I don't know who it was, but I definitely saw once such a laptop guy. Came on the stage, plugged his laptop in, logged on, pressed a few keys and that was it. Music was playing and tracks were mixing, he didn't do jack shit. Was just standing there, almost dancing. It was just boring. And the music was fullon ... lame, cheesy and overplayed. This was the worst DJ gig I ever saw. To avoid this in the future I since try to come to the parties shortly before the liveacts start to play and leave immediately afterwards. Don't care about the DJs anymore unless I know their peculiar sound and go there because I want to hear their sets (and then I don't even mind if he just plays it from the lappie, I wanna hear the music and am curious for what new tracks he will spin)... And Krell, you're right, the software makes things easy and lets room for the DJs to focus on other things and be more creative and make even richer sets. All good, really, but on the other hand it also opens the gates wide for posers who don't have a clue and litterally can only press a button and let the software do the rest and try to be cool when they in fact can do nothing (and even then they make mistakes like they press a wrong button and the sound suddenly is gone and they just can shrug their shoulders ... not very impressive) - and this is something I clearly do not want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abasio Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Don't DJs mix vinyl anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lepton Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 And Krell, you're right, the software makes things easy and lets room for the DJs to focus on other things and be more creative and make even richer sets. All good, really, but on the other hand it also opens the gates wide for posers who don't have a clue and litterally can only press a button and let the software do the rest and try to be cool when they in fact can do nothing (and even then they make mistakes like they press a wrong button and the sound suddenly is gone and they just can shrug their shoulders ... not very impressive) - and this is something I clearly do not want. 622172[/snapback] Strange story .. I yet have to see software that mixes music as it was mixed by a dj .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fohat Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 I don't know who it was, but I definitely saw once such a laptop guy. Came on the stage, plugged his laptop in, logged on, pressed a few keys and that was it. Music was playing and tracks were mixing, he didn't do jack shit. Was just standing there, almost dancing. It was just boring. And the music was fullon ... lame, cheesy and overplayed. This was the worst DJ gig I ever saw. 622172[/snapback] This can only be done with a prerecorded set not more not less. same what raja ram does sometimes with cd's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krell Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 And Krell, you're right, the software makes things easy and lets room for the DJs to focus on other things and be more creative and make even richer sets. All good, really, but on the other hand it also opens the gates wide for posers who don't have a clue and litterally can only press a button and let the software do the rest and try to be cool when they in fact can do nothing (and even then they make mistakes like they press a wrong button and the sound suddenly is gone and they just can shrug their shoulders ... not very impressive) - and this is something I clearly do not want. 622172[/snapback] The same can be done with CDs, just prerecord it on your computer and burn the .wav file as CD audio. Then, plugin cd, press play - Its even easier than bringing a laptop, so if thats what you want to do, CD players or even DAT players are the "bigger evil". So, this is not at all anything new - I agree with you, what matters is the music, and if its not something to your liking, it doesnt really matter what method the dj uses to present it. Crap is Crap, Cream is Cream. With liveacts, you have a clear idea of what the sound will be, probably something along the lines of the last album og ep releases. So, that creates security in regards to anticipation. Perhaps the problem with djs is that many will just settle for the same full on or progressive formula, I dont know. Its the music that matters, and as a DJ its hard to get "your style" or "your taste" promoted out to your audience beforehand - Since most cd releases go to producers (and I think rightfully so). Also, "your style" is really not the music as such, but the way you choose to represent it.. Like, releasing one dj set "this is krells style", its just meaningless, because every dj set will be unique. Liveacts stand, party after party, and play the same tracks over and over. This is exactly what a DJ must avoid. At least, thats what I think. In any case, its in all good djs interest that there is more awareness put on the dj sets and what quality is there. So, hopefully a thread like this will help on that. - Krell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Liveacts stand, party after party, and play the same tracks over and over. This is exactly what a DJ must avoid. At least, thats what I think. 622596[/snapback] Yes, the dj should avoid that, but I think that a live act that does the same live act over and over again, is a boring liveact! I want to hear diffrences, improvements, new ideas, etc etc. I know many live acts that do a new revision for each party, and I think that really is R.E.S.P.E.C.T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTP Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Perhaps the problem with djs is that many will just settle for the same full on or progressive formula, I dont know. Its the music that matters, and as a DJ its hard to get "your style" or "your taste" promoted out to your audience beforehand - Since most cd releases go to producers (and I think rightfully so). Also, "your style" is really not the music as such, but the way you choose to represent it.. Like, releasing one dj set "this is krells style", its just meaningless, because every dj set will be unique. 622596[/snapback] I know every DJ set will be unique (and it better be like that, because the uniqueness is good!), but you can't deny you have a style, a general vague prediction what kind of music style the audience can expect when you make a set. For example I doubt that DJ Slater from Tribal Vision will suddenly come up with killargh Skazi fullon blast when he normally spins totally different stuff And you might be right, the main problem probably lies more in this "same formula" thing of the music, which basic elements are easy to copy for wannabes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeller Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 you are only a dj if you spin with real cd's or vinyl.. laptops with mixing programs are too easy, but it's better that than just push play.. but never saw a dj doing that, only livesets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lepton Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 you are only a dj if you spin with real cd's or vinyl.. laptops with mixing programs are too easy, but it's better that than just push play.. but never saw a dj doing that, only livesets 622728[/snapback] bs !! Didn't you read krell's posts, he explained it pretty well .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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