Ormion Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 if some1 has poor music knowledge then there is only 1 way for him..to compose tracks with randomized noises bcause he can't compose music with CONSISTENCE Writing a track with you called ''randomized noises'' is extremelly difficult and needs a hell of imagination! I can make a ''randomized noises'' track too. I'd just make a bassline, create 100-150 different effects and add them in my track in random order. Do you think this track will be good or has anything to do with the artists you just mentioned? I find very easy to understand who has musical skills and who doesn't even in these ''randomized noises'' tracks. I totally respect your opinion, but I understood how difficult is too produce a good crazy track when I tried to write one myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupture Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 why Reason and Fl and not cubase or logic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted November 21, 2006 Author Share Posted November 21, 2006 why Reason and Fl and not cubase or logic? 647770[/snapback] Are you sure you are in the right thread? EDIT: Yeah, I am not finished reading all the posts, and you were referring to Rez's post. Sorry mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rezwalker Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 I totally respect your opinion, but I understood how difficult is too produce a good crazy track when I tried to write one myself. 647769[/snapback] but why is difficult to produce a good crazy track as u why? u ever wonder that? it's not ironic comment..but i wanna hear yr opinion cause u are producer as u said.. u think for example is difficult for MFG or transwave to produce a good crazy track? imo NO..i hope u to understand what i mean... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupture Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Are you sure you are in the right thread? EDIT: Yeah, I am not finished reading all the posts, and you were referring to Rez's post. Sorry mate 647773[/snapback] Yes. Yes. Feathers style I'm a hardcore Reason fan,and pisses me off what people say most of the times:"oh,it's so bad it was probably made with reason or fl!" "OMG he got cracked fl,he thinks he's an artist already,shitty music"... it just doesn't matter (IMO) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rezwalker Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 I'm a hardcore Reason fan,and pisses me off what people say most of the times:"oh,it's so bad it was probably made with reason or fl!" "OMG he got cracked fl,he thinks he's an artist already,shitty music"... 647777[/snapback] that not means u dont have the right to produce something..it's a start..don't take it personal i was talking about the released productions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drosophila Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 it's simple: if some1 has poor music knowledge then there is only 1 way for him..to compose tracks with randomized noises bcause he can't compose music with CONSISTENCE (e.x kindzadza, parasense, fungus funk, derango, psykovsky etc etc)..so when i call derango as untalended cause of their randomized noises it's about that! with that logic we can start hit some casseroles and we are ready to baptism that as "music"! writting tracks with consistency is too difficult for someone with poor music knowledge..just look around for examples (especially from old school)..almost all legendary's have music knowledge (synth,piano,guitar etc etc) nowdays everyone gets Reason and FL and he think he makes music..(the top reason for the psytrance death nowdays close with label's fault) so everyone knows how much easy is to make some noises covered by a kick..but that not means they are artists and they deserve our respect....so i have the right to call them untalended "artists"...and know what? that's not affect other styles imo..not even full-on..full-on is crap but u can hear a clear bassline..a clear kicks..and some clear samples.. 647764[/snapback] Still just dont get it... u r very ON topic, thats nice! Does'nt mean u r right though... U r very righteous in the way u argument for your case, seems like u know what musical knowledge is pffss I don't goíve a rats ass about that kind of arguments or attitudes for that matter... but of course u have your right to have your opinion but I have right to think its hollow one too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rezwalker Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Still just dont get it... u r very ON topic, thats nice! Does'nt mean u r right though... U r very righteous in the way u argument for your case, seems like u know what musical knowledge is pffss I don't goíve a rats ass about that kind of arguments or attitudes for that matter... but of course u have your right to have your opinion but I have right to think its hollow one too 647782[/snapback] sorry but...i don't give a f**k for yr ironic comments. go and listen derango's rubbish and leave us alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqualung Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 I thought this topic was about personal taste, so calling something rubbish seems kind of off topic to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drosophila Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 sorry but...i don't give a f**k for yr ironic comments. go and listen derango's rubbish and leave us alone. 647784[/snapback] Sorry but u just confirm what I just said.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rezwalker Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 I thought this topic was about personal taste, so calling something rubbish seems kind of off topic to me. 647787[/snapback] u should read again and more carefully the post #84 before u write that edit: ok some of u, wants fight and not discussion..sorry im not interested! ciao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 but why is difficult to produce a good crazy track as u why? u ever wonder that? it's not ironic comment..but i wanna hear yr opinion cause u are producer as u said.. u think for example is difficult for MFG or transwave to produce a good crazy track? imo NO..i hope u to understand what i mean... I understand what you mean, but about MFG or Transwave I'd say you'll never know. It's like movies. A director who's good in making dramas doesn't mean that he can direct a good horror movie too. (the examples are infinite). Maybe MFG or Transwave or AP could produce a good crazy track but maybe this track was worse than a Psykovsky one, but from the other hand Psykovsky couldn't make a good melodic track. I never said that crazy dark psy is more difficult to produce than Goa. After all KinDzaDza and the rest never cared about melodies, which are a very difficult element. But... They're amazing Goa tracks, but also bad Goa tracks. It's the same, they're amazing crazy tracks and bad crazy tracks. I just want to say that producing a GOOD crazy track is very difficult, needs A LOT of work and it's not a one hour work. For example: Have you ever think how many hours Derango spend to create the effects only for one of the tracks? Personally, I don't want to think about it. I don't want to make you change your taste. If you don't like ''crazy'' Psy then it's ok. I don't like minimal for example and even the whole world said that minimal rocks I wouldn't care. I just try to say that some othr ppl (including me) find Derango's music awesome for our reasons and also, this kind of music needs also a lot of work and skills. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rezwalker Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 I just want to say that producing a GOOD crazy track is very difficult, needs A LOT of work and it's not a one hour work. For example: Have you ever think how many hours Derango spend to create the effects only for one of the tracks? Personally, I don't want to think about it. Peace 647790[/snapback] so...u said needed too much time...but u have to agree that not means some1 who has patient to produce tracks long time has the same time and rich music knowledge and deserves our respect or he is talented...i hope u to agree with that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cosmogenesis Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 it's simple: if some1 has poor music knowledge then there is only 1 way for him..to compose tracks with randomized noises bcause he can't compose music with CONSISTENCE (e.x kindzadza, parasense, fungus funk, derango, psykovsky etc etc)..so when i call derango as untalended cause of their randomized noises it's about that! with that logic we can start hit some casseroles and we are ready to baptism that as "music"! writting tracks with consistency is too difficult for someone with poor music knowledge..just look around for examples (especially from old school)..almost all legendary's have music knowledge (synth,piano,guitar etc etc) nowdays everyone gets Reason and FL and he think he makes music..(the top reason for the psytrance death nowdays close with label's fault) so everyone knows how much easy is to make some noises covered by a kick..but that not means they are artists and they deserve our respect....so i have the right to call them untalended "artists"...and know what? that's not affect other styles imo..not even full-on..full-on is crap but u can hear a clear bassline..a clear kicks..and some clear samples.. 647764[/snapback] I can't agree more with those very clear and true (for me at least) explanations of Rez. I think he has clearly defined there what "real" or "quality" MUSIC means. And, IMO, artists like Derango, Kindzadza certainly don't belong to this definition. Their productions are maybe called "music", but when I'm listening to this really weird unform, excentric mount of repetitive and very cacophonic sounds with this boring and poor-inspired rhythm (and sometimes building also), it's really difficult for me to detect a pinch of musicality there. Maybe emotionally, it creates some feeling to the listener or dancer, but musically, it's rather poor I think. Really difficult to compare then a real artpiece like "Corolle" from Khetzal (to just give an example) with a 9 tracks album like "Tumult" of Derango... Well, it's certainly just my view among million others, and some people will say they find some talents in artists like derango, where I don't see nothing else than a dramatic utilization ("abuse" fits probably better) of the musical material and modern technologies. That's why it's useless for me to polemic more about that. Afterall, all is matter of taste there, people are free to listen what they like, from extremely poor to extremely high quality music (or whatever the term they use to call that) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAH Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 wish i had all the time to came and talk trash. Newsflash, nobody's opinions are going to change, no matter how much you discuss is it is a fact. rezwalker don't like derango, fine dude... nobody's gonna loose sleep over it... fact of the matter is, you have no clue what it takes to pull together something of that magnitude (melodis or no melodis included) you haven't tried it, so you don't know if it's harder to make than mfg or whatever, you are assuming because you like something else, yes? calling people names ain't helping either... so let's just leave it as it is... you don't dig it, that's fine, the thread is not about 'who's taste is the best..." is about... what is your taste... and you don't get." not to come trash music... or was it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 so...u said needed too much time...but u have to agree that not means some1 who has patient to produce tracks long time has the same time and rich music knowledge..i hope u to agree with that Of course I agree. What I really want to say is that music knowledge/skills doesn't mean exclusively melodies. Don't get me wrong I love melodies! I must be the biggest melody lover in the world but I believe that someone may have music knowledge without writing melodies. Maybe many of these artists CAN write great melodies but they just don't feel the need to it. For example: many of the ''crazy'' artists produce ambient music also. In their ambient tracks they use melodies and a more old school trance style. Check out Psyfactor's dance tracks and his ambient tracks. The ambient ones have melodies and are closer to Goa (ambient Goa) than ''dark madness''. Why is he doing that? Well maybe because he doesn't WANT to right melodic style DANCE tracks. But that doesn't mean he hasn't the knowledge to do that. It's like painters. Picasso could paint very realistic, natural drwaings. Instead of that he decided to draw these crazy, almost kiddy looking drawings. He did it because he wanted that, not because it was the only style he could paint. So. maybe KinDzaDza for example produces this kind of Psy because he wants that and not because he can't write something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drosophila Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Of course I agree. What I really want to say is that music knowledge/skills doesn't mean exclusively melodies. Don't get me wrong I love melodies! I must be the biggest melody lover in the world but I believe that someone may have music knowledge without writing melodies. Maybe many of these artists CAN write great melodies but they just don't feel the need to it. For example: many of the ''crazy'' artists roduce ambient music also. In their ambient tracks they use melodies and a more old school trance style. Check out Psyfactor's dance tracks and his ambient tracks. The ambient ones have melodies and are closer to Goa (ambient Goa) than ''dark madness''. Why is he doing that? Well maybe because he doesn't WANT to right melodic style DANCE tracks. But that doesn't mean he hasn't the knowledge to do that. It's like painters. Picasso could paint very realistic, natural drwaings. Instead of that he decided to draw these crazy, almost kiddy looking drawings. He did it before he wanted that, not because it was the only style he could paint. So. maybe KinDzaDza for example produces this kind of Psy becuase he wants that and not beacuse he can't write something else. 647800[/snapback] Well said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rezwalker Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 fact of the matter is, you have no clue what it takes to pull together something of that magnitude (melodis or no melodis included) you haven't tried it, so you don't know if it's harder to make than mfg or whatever, else, calling people names ain't helping either 647799[/snapback] 1) for your "fact" i can say one thing: if u say so... what else im doing in my life? how u know about me? i'll take it as a joke. as for yr comment "calling people names ain't helping either" read post #84. oh i forgot the guy who wrote it agreed with yr opinions so that not counts. g2g peace to all open-minded ppl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeller Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 everyone who thinks Derango, Kindzadza, Psykovsky, Parasense etc is random noise is completely retarded or doesn't know shit about music making.. first of all, their are like thousands off dark songs who are clearly random noise, just basline and no content.. those 5 clearly aren't.. it is original, twisted and very intelligent.. especially those glitches are fucking crazy.. in fact melodic music isn't that hard too, i'm sure most of them can produce fine melodic pieces.. Psyfactor's last track on Evil Inside for example there is so much intelligent music with doesn't have melody.. and it is harder to make a track interesting without melody then make a track interesting with one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drosophila Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 1) for your "fact" i can say one thing" if u say so... what else im doing in my life? how u know about me? im talking it as joke. as for yr comment "calling people names ain't helping either" read post #84. oh i forgot the guy who wrote it agreed with yr opinions so that not counts. gt2 peace to all open-minded ppl. 647805[/snapback] U are seriously getting angry, ease up man! Its just a discussion about taste I was mearly commenting on your righteousness in the earlier comment We all just have to accept we are not gonna like all music but that does not make us the judges of what is in general quality music, only whats quality music for our self... Im not trying to fight with anybody... just discussion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted November 21, 2006 Author Share Posted November 21, 2006 So after reading all these posts, that start to be a bit personal and flaming, I come to ONE conclusion, and that is what this topic was about. Some GET it, and some DONT. Your personal taste apart, you can not judge if a musician is good, just because you dont like it, or dont understand it. Some people will say that Eat Static as as unmusical as it can get, and I will totally disagree, some will however agree with this. Dont let personal taste judge artists talent... I might not like Filterias music, I might think that its weird, and undanceable, but that does NOT give me the right to say that he is untallented. (Sorry Jannis for using you as an example, I know you will take it the good way, and I find you extremely tallented!). So, personal taste apart, you have to understand, that some people just DONT understand your taste. I dont understand Fusion Jazz, but I dont go screaming that they are untallented people that create Random noises. Randomness is just as hard to create as anything else.... Sorry, but I feel it went a bit out of hand here... EDIT: Same goes for other artforms, I dont understand Picasso at all. I think its hideous art. I can not judge if he was tallentless though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cosmogenesis Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 there is so much intelligent music with doesn't have melody.. and it is harder to make a track interesting without melody then make a track interesting with one 647808[/snapback] Don't be so categoric, mate. Put as me an "IMO" or "I think" before to tell such things... And btw, what was the subject of this topic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted November 21, 2006 Author Share Posted November 21, 2006 I think it was his opinion.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drosophila Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 So after reading all these posts, that start to be a bit personal and flaming, I come to ONE conclusion, and that is what this topic was about. Some GET it, and some DONT. Your personal taste apart, you can not judge if a musician is good, just because you dont like it, or dont understand it. Some people will say that Eat Static as as unmusical as it can get, and I will totally disagree, some will however agree with this. Dont let personal taste judge artists talent... I might not like Filterias music, I might think that its weird, and undanceable, but that does NOT give me the right to say that he is untallented. (Sorry Jannis for using you as an example, I know you will take it the good way, and I find you extremely tallented!). So, personal taste apart, you have to understand, that some people just DONT understand your taste. I dont understand Fusion Jazz, but I dont go screaming that they are untallented people that create Random noises. Randomness is just as hard to create as anything else.... Sorry, but I feel it went a bit out of hand here... EDIT: Same goes for other artforms, I dont understand Picasso at all. I think its hideous art. I can not judge if he was tallentless though! 647817[/snapback] I agree with u all the way Nemo... but I actually kind of like Picasso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abasio Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 I don't get folks who don't get Eat Static. I mean, I can even understand people don't get Texas Faggott or Venetian Snares (even though I love that madness) but Eat Static is sheer brilliance, imo. I can never ever get tired of Abduction. How can people not like that? 647626[/snapback] Yeah! They are just weird! Nothing from Eat static has been less than good! IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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