abasio Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 YaY, I have lots of vinyl, and even a turntable! !!! Im proper - Im proper *jumps around franticly* :-) - Krell Hehe! My brother recently bought turntables & raided my vinyl collection back in England I just know he's ruining all of them :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krell Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Hehe! My brother recently bought turntables & raided my vinyl collection back in England I just know he's ruining all of them :( The apple doesnt fall far from the tree..... Oh, that wasnt nice :-) I can hear him training his scratching techniques, over and over, your not a dj if you cant scratch :-P - Krell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abasio Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 The apple doesnt fall far from the tree..... Oh, that wasnt nice :-) I can hear him training his scratching techniques, over and over, your not a dj if you cant scratch :-P - Krell You aint no DJ if you aint playing this! You can't cut you can't scratch you can't mix I know he'S scratching them right now My beautiful collection of Flying Rhino being destroyed Why god why? Why did my brother have to become interested in music Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anakoluth Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 ...and I cant wait till digital / downloadable media is the standard, we are getting there Im happy to say :-) i SO hope not ...but, as said before, to each his/her own i do prefer cd's, although i love vinyl. but if they have both the vinyl and the cd at the shop, i buy the cd...cause its more handy, easier to record to md etc....but nothing can beat the feel of a vinyl... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Psychologist Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Just to rebirth this for a moment I have been ripping my Goa vinyl to WAV and then cleaning the sound up digitally to remove surface and background noise. It's quite impressive how much better tracks can sound after getting rid of all the noise vinyl introduces (there's a LOT, even with mint records). I was a vinyl whore for years, but for music that revolves around clear,trippy sounds, i can't see why anyone would prefer the sound of vinyl. The thing people forget is that a LOT can go wrong between the track being finished in the computer and it hitting shops as a 12" vinyl. The whole process of mastering, cutting, pressing can go really wrong (and often does). For my filthy analogue techno it's OK, but not for trance. That said, FOR COLLECTING vinyl is a far superior format. But collecting isn't listening. CD all the way, and 320 lame MP3 is also fine for playing out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supergroover Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 that just sounds soooo odd.. prefering 128 kbps mp3's to a crystal clear sound. it sounds like prefering to watch a van gogh through a pair of sunglasses so the colours arent so bright. abasio: why dont you just tell him to leave your collection alone and start his own.. use some physical force if needed.. its worth it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest antic Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 that just sounds soooo odd.. prefering 128 kbps mp3's to a crystal clear sound. it sounds like prefering to watch a van gogh through a pair of sunglasses so the colours arent so bright. If you're referring to my post, then I'd like to clear this out a bit. I'm not claiming that 128kbps sounds better than CD, because it obviously does not. However, I like that special sound of low-bitrate mp3s, because 95% of the time I listen to music in headphones. When I play the CDs the sound is so sharp (couple this with today's notorious overcompression!), that my ears & head hurts after few tracks. However, when I play 128-160kbps mp3 the sharpness is somehow reduced, yet there's still enough of the details there to fully enjoy the music. I said it reminds me of how the tapes sound, because it really does sound more analogueous than digital in 128kbps. That's only my personal preference, not the absolute truth. And besides, I save a lot of place on my laptop's HDD - if I want, I can always take the CD off the shelve and enjoy full quality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppA Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 If I would spin, I would prefer CD's. Why? because 80% of PsyTrance releases are on CD :\ And I mentioned Krell stating that he can't hear the difference between 320 kbps encoded mp3 file and a vinyl track. That's just weird, or maybe you don't have proper sound gear (amplification, speakers, needle, element, etc.)? When I compare a 320kbps mp3 with a CD track, I immediately hear the difference, and the same goes with a decent vinyl track. Tho I listen thrue my Sennheiser HD-25, so that may be the cause? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krell Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 And I mentioned Krell stating that he can't hear the difference between 320 kbps encoded mp3 file and a vinyl track. That's just weird, or maybe you don't have proper sound gear (amplification, speakers, needle, element, etc.)? When I compare a 320kbps mp3 with a CD track, I immediately hear the difference, and the same goes with a decent vinyl track. Tho I listen thrue my Sennheiser HD-25, so that may be the cause? Or perhaps your .mp3 is not properly encoded. I might add, I was not the only one who couldnt hear the difference. The challenge to spot the files was made on isratrance, well known producers and djs took part, as well as anyone willing. Noone spotted 100% what was what, and also most were far from sure. So, statisticly the test was far from conclusive, which it would really need to be if you were to present a fact of "mp3s sounds noticably worse then cds". When push comes to show, people cant hear the difference, those who say they can either have superhuman hearing or are full of bs. MP3s depend on the enocoding software and the playback hardware... much like vinyl, which depends on the turntable and needle plus the quality of the vinyl disk itself. The same can be said for CD, which needs a good DAC and signal path + of course sound system to shine. These things all formats have in common. - Krell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abasio Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 abasio: why dont you just tell him to leave your collection alone and start his own.. use some physical force if needed.. its worth it I'm 9000 odd km away He seems to believe that my collection of rare vinyl will be a nice start to his cheesey club trance collection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppA Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Or perhaps your .mp3 is not properly encoded. I might add, I was not the only one who couldnt hear the difference. The challenge to spot the files was made on isratrance, well known producers and djs took part, as well as anyone willing. Noone spotted 100% what was what, and also most were far from sure. So, statisticly the test was far from conclusive, which it would really need to be if you were to present a fact of "mp3s sounds noticably worse then cds". When push comes to show, people cant hear the difference, those who say they can either have superhuman hearing or are full of bs. MP3s depend on the enocoding software and the playback hardware... much like vinyl, which depends on the turntable and needle plus the quality of the vinyl disk itself. The same can be said for CD, which needs a good DAC and signal path + of course sound system to shine. These things all formats have in common. - Krell Well, yes maybe it has to do something with me not having a good sound card. But overall, it's harder to hear the difference between a proper 320kbps mp3 and a CD, but once you spin mp3's on a big festival with huge amplification of the sound, I will almost guarantee you that you'll hear the difference. Same goes if you play a CD via a good super-fi installation, and afterwards the mp3. I think that what is a theory, is that a sound system capable of turning a CD into vinyl 'sound' is much harder to arrange and pay then a good vinyl-playing sound system. So many people 'tend' to go much faster for a vinyl, before attempting to go for the CD sound. Also, I guess if you put a very good CD system next to a very good vinyl system, you'll hear the warmth of the vinyl, but ofcourse, some prefer the crisper and crystal-clear sound of a CD. But that is a matter of taste By the way, how was the test conducted on isratrance, did the contestants get blindfolded and listened to audio or how? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krell Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Well, yes maybe it has to do something with me not having a good sound card. But overall, it's harder to hear the difference between a proper 320kbps mp3 and a CD, but once you spin mp3's on a big festival with huge amplification of the sound, I will almost guarantee you that you'll hear the difference. Same goes if you play a CD via a good super-fi installation, and afterwards the mp3. I think that what is a theory, is that a sound system capable of turning a CD into vinyl 'sound' is much harder to arrange and pay then a good vinyl-playing sound system. So many people 'tend' to go much faster for a vinyl, before attempting to go for the CD sound. Also, I guess if you put a very good CD system next to a very good vinyl system, you'll hear the warmth of the vinyl, but ofcourse, some prefer the crisper and crystal-clear sound of a CD. But that is a matter of taste By the way, how was the test conducted on isratrance, did the contestants get blindfolded and listened to audio or how? The test on isratrance was blind folded in the way that people received .wav files, some of them were made from mp3 and others were originals. Big PA soundsystems actually reveal less detail than high quality hifi og headphones do. In regards to amplification being important I think you need confront the fact that MP3s might remove some frequencies you dont hear, but it shouldnt as such add anything. At least, thats what I think. So, the amplification of something not there = nothing. Then of cause, if something is removed it could perhaps have been heard if it was louder yes ? But, the thing is, what is removed you dont hear. If we just address the volume topic, which is what it really is about, I have had my DJ headphones playing those test MP3 as loud as I could stand, and still, no difference (same story from other people). I have never EVER read a test which had its facts sorted (such as that the MP3 is encoded correctly for instance), which showed anything that could justify that CDs are noticably better. So, when you dont notice something, it doesnt matter that much does it? You might be able to get vinyl sound which is better than CD, depending on the vinyl and if its a very high level (shit ass expensive) turntable and needle. However, Im sure you can get sound which is also even better - So whats the point ? The two are no longer real rivals I think, at least not for me. In 99,99% of the situations there exist where the REAL choice is one over the other, the equipment used will yield a result where the CD sounds better. There have been multiple tests made which underline the mp3 vs cd thing... I browsed and found this one also. http://www.geocities.com/altbinariessounds...al/mp3test.html Take a long hard look at it :-) - Krell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTT Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 CD's. It's more comfortable to carry and to use them. Everyone can burn a CD with his own tracks and play them on a party, but who can burn a vinyl?) CD's, CD's and only CD's... but DAT is a true spirit of Goa!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Psychologist Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 The debate seems to boil down to two points, always the same: -vinyl has "warmer" sound -MP3s will sound "bad" when played at high volumes Both are very vague and not really good evidence. I still have 1200+ records, so it does pain me to finally realize how crap the format can sound. I just got some rare Goa vinyl, and it's annoying the hell out of me. The surfaces look unplayed, but then the tracks have many clicks and pops. Vinyl can be a bit mysterious when it comes to surface noise. With CDs, you can basically see any surface flaws easily. One interesting experiment is to do noise reduction on older CDs. You can rip them to WAV and sometimes remove the background hiss from the gear used during production. Not saying it's always better, but you can actually improve the music to be purer than when it released. I'm a nerd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supergroover Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 isnt the soundquality of vinyl by definition worse than cd because it is compressed ALOT? giving its special warmth but actually fucking up the sound that way. So basically playing very high quality mp3's should be fine.. but why not play flac or wave then? we don't have to save space anymore now do we? we all got 200 gb harddisks now.. abasio: there must be some way to prevent him from fucking your vinyls... ask your parents or his roomies to lock em and could you please make your signatures alittle shorter.. its rather annoying to browse the forum this way imho.. thnx =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rino Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 I'll be honest here, I prefer the CD 'cause they're much easier to find over here, but vinyl will always win out speaking of the cover art. But, considering I've never been too fond of covers, I much prefer an album with a horrible cover and brilliant music than viceversa! So, yeah, the CD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rino Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 But overall, it's harder to hear the difference between a proper 320kbps mp3 and a CD, but once you spin mp3's on a big festival with huge amplification of the sound, I will almost guarantee you that you'll hear the difference. Same goes if you play a CD via a good super-fi installation, and afterwards the mp3.This is true. The MP3 music, on a big and high quality sound system, whether it be an enormous outdoor festival or a closed club, the bass kicks will sound like it's coming from the bottom of a chlorine drenched olympic swimming pool. But on the other hand, I always looked at the MP3 format to be for home listening and stuff... Smaller house parties, all you bring is a laptop, connect it to some speakers, create a playlist and off you go... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oopie Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 This is true. The MP3 music, on a big and high quality sound system, whether it be an enormous outdoor festival or a closed club, the bass kicks will sound like it's coming from the bottom of a chlorine drenched olympic swimming pool. But on the other hand, I always looked at the MP3 format to be for home listening and stuff... Smaller house parties, all you bring is a laptop, connect it to some speakers, create a playlist and off you go...agreed and approved! I know some people say it's the same thing if it's 320kbs mp3 or wav. But to think of it, wav is ~1400kbs so it actually holds over four times more info than 320kbs file. But indeed like Rino said, some smaller parties e.g. home party with friends, are sometimes quite okay with mp3s too. Oh I picked CD in the poll. I really dislike scratchy vinyl sound, with the expection of old jazz records Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krell Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 This is true. The MP3 music, on a big and high quality sound system, whether it be an enormous outdoor festival or a closed club, the bass kicks will sound like it's coming from the bottom of a chlorine drenched olympic swimming pool. But on the other hand, I always looked at the MP3 format to be for home listening and stuff... Smaller house parties, all you bring is a laptop, connect it to some speakers, create a playlist and off you go... A statement which is TOTALLY illogical, since just about ALL big sound systems are inferior to home hifi setups or headphones. They often dont go deeper than 40Hz - 50Hz nor higher than 16KHz. Could it be, that it is actually not because its MP3s being played but something else ? Perhaps you just hear a bad sound and conclude "Oh, that must be Mp3" ? Or perhaps, if you know a DJ just spins MP3s, it is not a professional DJ who knows how to use the mixer properly (over gaining or eqing the tracks). I for one am able to tell a bad mastering from a good one easily on CD, something I can also do over a PA. Why cant I tell an MP3 from a CD then ? We have 20-40kW sound setups at our parties, and have never had bad sound due to an MP3 being played, at least as not as I nor the other people noticed. Instead other factors touch the sound quality, over gaining tracks or pushing mixers beyond their dynamic range for instance, bad mastering and stuff like that. - Krell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rino Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 A statement which is TOTALLY illogical, since just about ALL big sound systems are inferior to home hifi setups or headphones. They often dont go deeper than 40Hz - 50Hz nor higher than 16KHz. Could it be, that it is actually not because its MP3s being played but something else ? Perhaps you just hear a bad sound and conclude "Oh, that must be Mp3" ? Or perhaps, if you know a DJ just spins MP3s, it is not a professional DJ who knows how to use the mixer properly (over gaining or eqing the tracks). I for one am able to tell a bad mastering from a good one easily on CD, something I can also do over a PA. Why cant I tell an MP3 from a CD then ? We have 20-40kW sound setups at our parties, and have never had bad sound due to an MP3 being played, at least as not as I nor the other people noticed. Instead other factors touch the sound quality, over gaining tracks or pushing mixers beyond their dynamic range for instance, bad mastering and stuff like that. - Krell OK, I won't get into the whole mastering thing, since I'm really not that competent to talk about it, but speaking of the MP3 inferiority in sound, I know not because I heard it somewhere from someone, but lived to hear it on my own ears during the "Underwater Overground" festival in Croatia two years ago. I mean all of a sudden, the sound quality dropped like whoooa, and so I went asked one of the staff dudes whom I knew. So he goes to check it out, and comes back saying that the DJ just switched to his MP3 files. I'm usually not the one who's that pick and always keeps on bitching about how crystal must my music be, but when I hear bad quality sound, then that is what I hear. Listening on headphones (and amazing ones) I couldn't tell the difference between MP3 and CD. I couldn't tell the difference on my home speakers (the computer ones as well as the "proper" ones from the hi fi system), or even in a smaller club (I know that for sure 'cause we had parties organized in those using MP3 CDs... But I would never draw conclusions of something being an MP3 just because it sounds bad, I just lack the expertise to do that... Well speaking of mixers, I've experienced all types of stuff, and that's a whole new discussion. I mean, by forcing the mixer to go beyond its capacity you can fuck up virtually any sound no matter what the source; be it vinyl, CD or MP3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krell Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 OK, I won't get into the whole mastering thing, since I'm really not that competent to talk about it, but speaking of the MP3 inferiority in sound, I know not because I heard it somewhere from someone, but lived to hear it on my own ears during the "Underwater Overground" festival in Croatia two years ago. I mean all of a sudden, the sound quality dropped like whoooa, and so I went asked one of the staff dudes whom I knew. So he goes to check it out, and comes back saying that the DJ just switched to his MP3 files. I'm usually not the one who's that pick and always keeps on bitching about how crystal must my music be, but when I hear bad quality sound, then that is what I hear. Listening on headphones (and amazing ones) I couldn't tell the difference between MP3 and CD. I couldn't tell the difference on my home speakers (the computer ones as well as the "proper" ones from the hi fi system), or even in a smaller club (I know that for sure 'cause we had parties organized in those using MP3 CDs... But I would never draw conclusions of something being an MP3 just because it sounds bad, I just lack the expertise to do that... Well speaking of mixers, I've experienced all types of stuff, and that's a whole new discussion. I mean, by forcing the mixer to go beyond its capacity you can fuck up virtually any sound no matter what the source; be it vinyl, CD or MP3. We just need a proper test some day. I wanted to do one at one of our parties, but when the time comes everybody is stressing to make sure everything is perfect for the guests. Hopefully some day we can make a credible article on this subject. - Krell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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