Transwave, Cypher, Synthetic, GBU, Deedrah...

[NEMO.BOFH]

How the hell can you put X-Dream & Transwave in one sentence with IM is beyond me?!

I personally don't like how X-Dream changed lately (never liked electro) and I haven't heard new Transwave tracks (and neither had you, did you?), but WHATEVER the music those two bands release will sound like, it still will be far from commercial. They're still in THIS scene and as far as I know it is still undergound, at least in 99% of the world. Besides, the album we're talking about in this thread is released under Federico Baltimore alias, so - according to what I quoted above - you should not have reason to complain.

 

Problem is, you don't like how the scene changed! News flash - I don't like 80% of what's being released nowadays as 'psytrance', but still if you dig deep enough you'll find some true gems. You've got to understand that old times won't come back, even if all labels would suddenly start releasing 'old-school'. Check Suntirp releases - it's close, but not the same (not that I'm complaining, far from it! ). Have you heard latest Koxbox, Prometheus, OOOD, Voice of Cod? They ALL have full-on basslines in them. SO WHAT? It's incredibly good MUSIC - that's what matters to me and a lot of other people here.

 

So, save your winings untill Transwave releases the new album. The production will definitely be updated, more digital than analogue and I'm 100% sure that there will be a full-on bassline in those tracks. But I'm aware of that and those things won't influence my opinion about the actual music.

+1

[Lemmiwinks]

Yes, I guess we really do. In the end it boils down to personal taste once again. I still think it's kind awkward that you present your thoughts about dos and don'ts for psyartists as unwritten rules.

come on Tatsu you KNOW that a while ago people would've tolerated much less change in psy artists. Like I said, just remember the days when Astral Projection were flamed for doing a collaboration with Trilithon or when MWNN signed a deal with a commercial record label. There USED to be unwritten rules, but aparently it's not the case anymore today.

 

I am very sorry lemmi, but that just sounds very close minded and dull to me. How can you know that they are not following their heart? How can you know that they just want to make money? I think it is very degrading to state the above, without sitting with all the facts.

 

Pop music to you maybe something else to another person... At this point I ask myself how much OPEN MINDED people there ARE in this scene... It saddens me to read such a post as the above, as it doesnt sound any better than the moaning posts about Full On. TASTE my friend, is something that you need to learn how to respect.

 

IMO, the argument that when musicians evolve into something else than their former fans like are "Commercial", is very infantile and close minded.

 

Sorry, but I just CAN NOT agree with anything of the above quoted post. not even 0.1%

 

Regards,

 

Nemo

sorry mate but I'm really fed up with this taste argument... OF COURSE more people will apreciate commercial music because that's exactly the purpose of commercial music in the first place: appealing to a large number of people!!! And that was (at least IMO...) the whole idea behind the electronic music revolution that started in the late 80s: artists didn't care about apealing to large numbers and just did what they felt like. And you tell me that if an artist like IM started adding singing on top of their music (and that it just so happens that they have more and more appeal to teens with their new sound) it doesn't have anything to do with appealing to the masses, it's because they "followed their hearts"? Please man, just how naive does someone have to be to buy that?

 

Now you seem to complain that I deem as being commercial ALL artists who change their style... that's NOT true and I gave my examples with Graham Woods, Ubar Tmar and MWNN...

 

anyway, of couse, these are but my personal opinions based on how the scene once was (or at least how I precieved it to be...). Now if you consider that it's prefectly normal for some psy artist to go on producing music for Britney Spears because he's just "following his heart" and "expressing his creativity" and it has absolutley nothing to do with making money and that, furthermore, whoever thinks otherwise is closed-minded, well then I guess we'll just keep on having very different personal opinions

 

 

How the hell can you put X-Dream & Transwave in one sentence with IM is beyond me?!

I personally don't like how X-Dream changed lately (never liked electro) and I haven't heard new Transwave tracks (and neither had you, did you?), but WHATEVER the music those two bands release will sound like, it still will be far from commercial. They're still in THIS scene and as far as I know it is still undergound, at least in 99% of the world. Besides, the album we're talking about in this thread is released under Federico Baltimore alias, so - according to what I quoted above - you should not have reason to complain.

 

Problem is, you don't like how the scene changed! News flash - I don't like 80% of what's being released nowadays as 'psytrance', but still if you dig deep enough you'll find some true gems. You've got to understand that old times won't come back, even if all labels would suddenly start releasing 'old-school'. Check Suntirp releases - it's close, but not the same (not that I'm complaining, far from it! ). Have you heard latest Koxbox, Prometheus, OOOD, Voice of Cod? They ALL have full-on basslines in them. SO WHAT? It's incredibly good MUSIC - that's what matters to me and a lot of other people here.

 

So, save your winings untill Transwave releases the new album. The production will definitely be updated, more digital than analogue and I'm 100% sure that there will be a full-on bassline in those tracks. But I'm aware of that and those things won't influence my opinion about the actual music.

First off, I wasn't speaking of Transwave per se, more about Dado, my bad... And just what do Dado, IM and X-Dream have in common? Well let's see, maybe the fact that they were all pioneers in oldschool making mind-blowing tracks and now they all make mass-appealing commercial music?

 

Now for the rest, you're right, I've already said that my rants have more to do with the fact that I haven't changed whereas the scene did.

[Tatsu]

come on Tatsu you KNOW that a while ago people would've tolerated much less change in psy artists. Like I said, just remember the days when Astral Projection were flamed for doing a collaboration with Trilithon or when MWNN signed a deal with a commercial record label. There USED to be unwritten rules, but aparently it's not the case anymore today.

Do you remember comps like for example Eternal Trance by Trust In Trance Records? There were trance tracks besides goa tracks and nobody really cared as much as I remember, it was just good music, and that's how it should be. I do remember about MWNN but imho the drama wasn't that big. Sure some people did mind but imho those are the same people that still think all the psy should sound like it did 10 years ago. And this is just NOT possible, not with psy and not with any other style. No matter what unwritten rules you relay on. To me it sounds more that you want psy to stay as deep down in the underground as possible so only the special people will listen to it and you can feel special too. That was how a lot of goa-people felt back in the old days (imho of course), way too elitistic for my taste and typical teenager behaviour that can still be seen today since people need crutches like their musical taste to define themselves.

 

Besides that I personally think it's a bit of an antinomy if you on one side ask for more creativity in the scene but on the other hand you have unwritten rules telling artists what to do and what not. No wonder artists decide to leave here for another scene in which they might have some more freedom.

[rino]

As for the new Deedrah side project, I can't say I'm all that excited since I was never a fan of his music. Not that I think it sucks, just that it never really caught my attention. However I do appreciate his will to try out new things.

 

As for the rest of the topic: each and every artist has the freedom to chose his direction. Whether he wants to remain an underground icon or try to break into the mainstream market is his and only his choice. We can approve or disapprove his decision, but it will never be anything more than our own subjective view of the whole situation. Because what may seem like a sell out move in our eyes might look like a career defining decision to someone else. What we see as cheap, somebody else might see as a masterpiece. We are just not competent enough to scratch off artists from our appreciation list because they chose to try out new things... From your own little "window" you may agree or disagree with certain decisions an artist may take, but that is about the maximum you can do. Why? Because first and foremost, an artist couldn't care less whether or not you consider him a sell out or not. You won't buy his music. So what, he would say. Many others will. It's only natural that when a musician takes a new path, he loses certain fans, but gains new ones. And no, an artist will have no problem whatsoever leaving you behind.

In conclusion: I do not accuse any artist of diving into those commercial rivers, for it is their artisitc freedom to do so. I may or may not like it, but I keep it to myself and don't make stereotypes of it. Bottom line is music is an art, and musicians are artists, free to act as they please and walk down paths not everyone would dare to take. And yes, that is why I love music so much!!!

[Colin OOOD]

There USED to be unwritten rules, but aparently it's not the case anymore today.

THE RULES

Rule 1: There is no Rule 2.

[Lemmiwinks]

As for the new Deedrah side project, I can't say I'm all that excited since I was never a fan of his music. Not that I think it sucks, just that it never really caught my attention. However I do appreciate his will to try out new things.

 

As for the rest of the topic: each and every artist has the freedom to chose his direction. Whether he wants to remain an underground icon or try to break into the mainstream market is his and only his choice. We can approve or disapprove his decision, but it will never be anything more than our own subjective view of the whole situation. Because what may seem like a sell out move in our eyes might look like a career defining decision to someone else. What we see as cheap, somebody else might see as a masterpiece. We are just not competent enough to scratch off artists from our appreciation list because they chose to try out new things... From your own little "window" you may agree or disagree with certain decisions an artist may take, but that is about the maximum you can do. Why? Because first and foremost, an artist couldn't care less whether or not you consider him a sell out or not. You won't buy his music. So what, he would say. Many others will. It's only natural that when a musician takes a new path, he loses certain fans, but gains new ones. And no, an artist will have no problem whatsoever leaving you behind.

In conclusion: I do not accuse any artist of diving into those commercial rivers, for it is their artisitc freedom to do so. I may or may not like it, but I keep it to myself and don't make stereotypes of it. Bottom line is music is an art, and musicians are artists, free to act as they please and walk down paths not everyone would dare to take. And yes, that is why I love music so much!!!

 

of course every artist has the freedom to choose their direction... but it's also the fan's freedom to flame them on forums if they don't like their new sound I mean, if you buy a certain brand of cereals and don't like them, it's your right to complain about them, no? Noone would start calling you "closed-minded" because you complain about that brand of cereals. So why should it be different with musicians?

[Colin OOOD]

Noone would start calling you "closed-minded" because you complain about that brand of cereals. So why should it be different with musicians?

Jesus Lemmi, what sort of a question is that? People aren't products... and people don't make music for the same reasons they make cereals. By all means, tell people you don't like something, and say why, but that should be the end of it, cereal or producer - endless discussions trying to justify why your opinions about matters of taste are more valid than other people's are a waste of forum space and good reading time, and are only perpetrated by people who have nothing else in life to live for but the feeling of getting one up on someone else.

 

If you even need to ask that question I have to wonder... You've become more and more bitter recently on Psynews, and to see you equate composers and musicians in general with people churning out breakfast cereals is a little saddening. Many of us musos do have something to say in our music, and just because Lemmiwinks doesn't hear it there, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[Colin OOOD]

the fan's freedom to flame them on forums

= fascism. "You must continue to make the music I like! You must not change! You started out making music for youself but now you must make it for me! ME! MEEEEEEE!"

[Lemmiwinks]

Jesus Lemmi, what sort of a question is that? People aren't products... and people don't make music for the same reasons they make cereals. By all means, tell people you don't like something, and say why, but that should be the end of it, cereal or producer - endless discussions trying to justify why your opinions about matters of taste are more valid than other people's are a waste of forum space and good reading time, and are only perpetrated by people who have nothing else in life to live for but the feeling of getting one up on someone else.

 

If you even need to ask that question I have to wonder... You've become more and more bitter recently on Psynews, and to see you equate composers and musicians in general with people churning out breakfast cereals is a little saddening. Many of us musos do have something to say in our music, and just because Lemmiwinks doesn't hear it there, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

well first off, I haven't criticized YOU in this thread, why is it that you seem to feel afected by what I said in the first place?... second off, I was just venting out a little steam, I've already said over and over again in this topic that the main problem was that the scene has changed and I haven't... third off, I was simply replying people who kept on comenting on what I said, my initial reply to this thread was just a one-line post... fifth off, I guess I've already complained too much in this thread anyway so I'll just bid you farewell and log off now

[Colin OOOD]

well first off, I haven't criticized YOU in this thread, why is it that you seem to feel afected by what I said in the first place?

Sorry, I forgot that as a producer I don't have the right to an opinion about things like this. As a human being though, I that find the commodification of the process of musical creation that you describe makes me sad. It also makes me realise that when you lot hear some of the music I'll be writing this year I won't be your friend any more because - and I say this with some assurance - you won't like it, and you'll think that makes me into a bad person for 'changing my style' LOL. By the way, if you can show me where I got upset because I thought you'd criticised me, I'd be grateful if you could let me know as I can't find it.

 

BTW just to repeat what I'm sure everybody knows but not everybody understands, because if they did then discussions like this would not happen and hooray for that day: personal taste is just that - personal. No-one is right (or wrong) because they like (or don't like) certain music. It's an 'emotion' thing. Arguing your point about such matters is as pointless as arguing about what colour love is.

[Anakoluth]

he's using another name, hence not selling out any of his psytrance alter-egos at all. i think this is great; shows he's a great diverse ARTIST, not just psytrance producer.

[Guest antic]

well first off, I haven't criticized YOU in this thread, why is it that you seem to feel afected by what I said in the first place?

so, what do you think of OOOD's new album?

 

he's using another name, hence not selling out any of his psytrance alter-egos at all. i think this is great; shows he's a great diverse ARTIST, not just psytrance producer.

exactly!

[Sideffect...]

Jesus Lemmi, what sort of a question is that? People aren't products... and people don't make music for the same reasons they make cereals. By all means, tell people you don't like something, and say why, but that should be the end of it, cereal or producer - endless discussions trying to justify why your opinions about matters of taste are more valid than other people's are a waste of forum space and good reading time, and are only perpetrated by people who have nothing else in life to live for but the feeling of getting one up on someone else.

uhu well said

[Adakt]

Well im listening to this album right now, and just couldnt help to make a shout out for this fellah, im pleased to say you are a true composer of this fine art, thanx for makin this incredible album, ill hear it till the day I die, and I think thats what us musicians would want for all fans and listeners, so u accomplished your mission man, definitly impressive talent and a true inspiration.

 

I recommend this to everyone who enjoys to take some peaceful lonely time in your day and just totally chill to some fine music, this will totally blow your mind away to another place. Once again, congratulations to this great artist.

 

.try makin constructive criticism, not babble about commercial and "underground", the point of makin music is gettin to the most ammoutn of ears u can, expressin and transmiting your message to who ever outside in this world wants to listen to it and make a journey out of it, no matter if its a 12 year old kid or my grandma. The fact that this guy spent his time makin something creative, new, and not trying but MAKIN wonderful music, THAT my friends is something every artist must have in his mind and soul, iniciative to go beyond his limits and thoughts, thinkin outisde the box, and just doint whatever the fock he wants to, cuz if he can he will! do it, and no one can do anything about it, just whine about it in a forum like this... so come on just put your hands togetha and applaud to some nice sweet tunes, its music people! if its commercial or the most underground sh!t youve listened to, its still good, and thats a fact. and VERY good.

 

peace