33 or 45 RPM?

[Lemmiwinks]

ok I admit I don't have much experience with vinyl... actually I HATE vinyl: they take up too much room, weigh a ton, the more you listen to them the more they get worn out, they're a nightmare to store properly BUT it's the ONLY way to get your hands on old B-sides that never were released anywhere else. So anyway, I'll stop my ranting and ask the actual question: is there an objective way to tell if a record should be played at 33 or 45RPM? I mean sure, most vinyls have the speed printed and in other cases you can tell from the track time or BPMs or simply by the sound... BUT sometimes there's no hint of record speed, BPMs or play time on the record itself and the music sound equally good in 45 AND 33 RPMs. So how can you tell then??

[Reznik]

longplayers (EPs) are played at 45rpm

albums are played at 33rpm

 

thats all i know

[rino]

BUT sometimes there's no hint of record speed, BPMs or play time on the record itself and the music sound equally good in 45 AND 33 RPMs. So how can you tell then??

Damn, I don't want to sound like a show off, but even when there isn't a hin't of any information anywhere, I can still tell by listening.

Example: My "Timepiece EP" from Technossomy. Those two tracks (I think) never came out anywhere else except on that vinyl, so even without any other reference, I could just hear by listening to the record on both 33 & 45 RPMs, and therefore deciding where does it seem more "natural". I remember playing Lunar Civilization on 33 RPM...

[rino]

longplayers (EPs) are played at 45rpm

albums are played at 33rpm

 

thats all i know

Then you do not know the half!

For example, my Slinky Wizard- "The Wizard EP" (ZFR001) (1994) (Flying Rhino Records) is played on 33 RPM, and is considered an EP in each and every possible way...

 

Bottom line is, I honestly have no idea why some records are played on 33, while others get spinned on 45 RPM! Is there an old school DJ around here?

[Reznik]

Then you do not know the half!

For example, my Slinky Wizard- "The Wizard EP" (ZFR001) (1994) (Flying Rhino Records) is played on 33 RPM, and is considered an EP in each and every possible way...

 

Bottom line is, I honestly have no idea why some records are played on 33, while others get spinned on 45 RPM! Is there an old school DJ around here?

well then it used to be like this, when i was young and was playing all the 60s, 70s vinyls of my dad, i remember i had to switch to 45rpm on all EPs...and 33 for albums...

hmm..ze mystery

[Lemmiwinks]

longplayers (EPs) are played at 45rpm

albums are played at 33rpm

 

thats all i know

 

no no no... agreed that albums are always 33 but for EPs there is no rule (at least none that I know of...) I actually have EPs that have an A-side on 45 RPMs and the B-side on 33!!! I've even heard of EPs that simply have the wrong RPM speed printed on them... I can totally understand the DJs who started playing 45 RPM records on 33 thus creating new beat

 

 

 

Damn, I don't want to sound like a show off, but even when there isn't a hin't of any information anywhere, I can still tell by listening.

Example: My "Timepiece EP" from Technossomy. Those two tracks (I think) never came out anywhere else except on that vinyl, so even without any other reference, I could just hear by listening to the record on both 33 & 45 RPMs, and therefore deciding where does it seem more "natural". I remember playing Lunar Civilization on 33 RPM...

 

well ok mister hot shot then answer me this: which speed sould you play 12 Moons - Back to Basics EP?

[Veracohr]

Then you do not know the half!

For example, my Slinky Wizard- "The Wizard EP" (ZFR001) (1994) (Flying Rhino Records) is played on 33 RPM, and is considered an EP in each and every possible way...

 

Bottom line is, I honestly have no idea why some records are played on 33, while others get spinned on 45 RPM! Is there an old school DJ around here?

45 RPM allows for more accurate frequency response, especially in the low end. I believe that's it, it's been a while since I learned about it. The same concept applies for tape speed in tape decks--at 30ips, you can only get around 17 minutes on a standard reel of tape, but when money and tape stock wasn't a problem, that was the preferred speed. The analogy that was used when I learned was that of a painter with a bigger canvas--it's easier to paint detail on a bigger canvas. Bigger canvas=higher RPM/tape speed.

[Veracohr]

ok I admit I don't have much experience with vinyl... actually I HATE vinyl: they take up too much room, weigh a ton, the more you listen to them the more they get worn out, they're a nightmare to store properly BUT it's the ONLY way to get your hands on old B-sides that never were released anywhere else. So anyway, I'll stop my ranting and ask the actual question: is there an objective way to tell if a record should be played at 33 or 45RPM? I mean sure, most vinyls have the speed printed and in other cases you can tell from the track time or BPMs or simply by the sound... BUT sometimes there's no hint of record speed, BPMs or play time on the record itself and the music sound equally good in 45 AND 33 RPMs. So how can you tell then??

You pretty much have to rely on the type of music and your knowledge of average BPM for that style. I have a record that when I first put it on, it was set to 33, and sounded fine, but then I remembered it was supposed to be hard acid techno, and +/- 100 BPM was too slow. So I switched it to 45, and said "Oh yeah, that sounds more like it."

[Lemmiwinks]

You pretty much have to rely on the type of music and your knowledge of average BPM for that style. I have a record that when I first put it on, it was set to 33, and sounded fine, but then I remembered it was supposed to be hard acid techno, and +/- 100 BPM was too slow. So I switched it to 45, and said "Oh yeah, that sounds more like it."

 

ok I agree with that also... BUT sometimes the B-sides on trance EPs are uptempo, other times they're down-tempo... how do you tell then??

[rino]

well ok mister hot shot then answer me this: which speed sould you play 12 Moons - Back to Basics EP?

No hard feelings, but how the hell can I tell you on what speed should you spin a vinyl I don't have, and even worse, that I've never heard. I only speak for the vinyls I own, and as I said before, even when there is nothing written on them, I listen. Good and sane ears will do just fine any given time of the day...

[w_lizzard]

I would agree with the experts of mechanics here.

[ukiro]

Back to Basics should be played at 33 of course - did you think it was suposed to be 180 BPM? =)

[Reznik]

I would agree with the experts of mechanics here.

[RTP]

Haaahahahahaha .... you know what, Lemmi? I myself thought already more than once about starting such a thread, but I always forgot

 

longplayers (EPs) are played at 45rpm

albums are played at 33rpm

 

thats all i know

WRONG.

 

Best example is Prex - R.F.N. / Mandrake EP: R.F.N. = 45 RPM; Mandrake = 33 RPM ... ask the scratched-in notes!

when there's only one track on a side you never know whether it's 33 or 45 RPM unless it's told you! I mean ... you can analyze the etchings ... it's a bit possible to conclude from them (if they're very dense it's likely to be 45 RPM), but not definitely! when there's two tracks on one side (yes, there are EPs with two tracks on some sides aswell) it's always 33 RPM though. Doesn't mean the other side is too though!

 

Yes, the decision whether a side has to be played 33 or 45 RPM is tough sometimes!

 

But the etched-in descriptions might help (if it's not stated on the label!). Or your ears. Ask both and then decide. The Human Blue - Essence EP for example is stated to be played in 45 RPM while it's in truth a 33 RPM (to me!).

 

it depends. you never know. that's what makes EPs so cool

[Veracohr]

ok I agree with that also... BUT sometimes the B-sides on trance EPs are uptempo, other times they're down-tempo... how do you tell then??

I sympathize with your confusion. I have many times wished they would just print it on the label--I mean, they print the damned label anyway, why not just put the speed on there? But my final determination is that with many electronic types of music, the artist/label knows a vinyl pressing is going to end up in a DJ set since few people buy vinyl just for listening anymore, so they figure the intended song speed is irrelevant--it is dependant on the placing of the song in the set and the intentions of the DJ. Unlike the days of yore, when a song had a definite intended speed and woe to any who set it wrongly.

 

Hmm...I should go listen to my Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin records on 45...

[abasio]

BUT sometimes there's no hint of record speed, BPMs or play time on the record itself and the music sound equally good in 45 AND 33 RPMs. So how can you tell then??

If the music sounds equally as good at both speeds then play it at both speeds. Both sound good right? What's the problem?

[RTP]

If the music sounds equally as good at both speeds then play it at both speeds. Both sound good right? What's the problem?

The problem when you don't know which speed the thing should be played at is, that when you play it at 33 RPM you constantly think "this is too slow" and when you play it at 45 RPM you constantly think "it's too fast" ... at least I'm doing this. So it's actually the contrary to your statement and in the end it doesn't sound right on neither of the two speeds and it makes you crazy not to know which speed the damn thing actually should be played at

[abasio]

The problem when you don't know which speed the thing should be played at is, that when you play it at 33 RPM you constantly think "this is too slow" and when you play it at 45 RPM you constantly think "it's too fast" ... at least I'm doing this. So it's actually the contrary to your statement and in the end it doesn't sound right on neither of the two speeds and it makes you crazy not to know which speed the damn thing actually should be played at

So the music is equally shite then

[Lemmiwinks]

when there's two tracks on one side (yes, there are EPs with two tracks on some sides aswell) it's always 33 RPM though. Doesn't mean the other side is too though!

 

NOT TRUE!! I have an EP called Dr Coma - Reality Remixes which has 3 tracks on each side (making a total of 6), like you I thought this had to be 33 RPMs by default but then I realized from the track times that it was 45 RPMs! If the track times weren't written on the label then I probably would've always played it on 33...

[NEMO.BOFH]

Basically you can say that an EP that has one track per side will be played at 45RPM, and if it has 2 or more tracks on a side, they are most likely to be played at 33RPM. This is NOT a rule, but if I look at most of my Vinyls, this is the case.

[NEMO.BOFH]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramophone_re...dium_comparison

 

In General that Wiki is pretty interessting.

[NEMO.BOFH]

NOT TRUE!! I have an EP called Dr Coma - Reality Remixes which has 3 tracks on each side (making a total of 6), like you I thought this had to be 33 RPMs by default but then I realized from the track times that it was 45 RPMs! If the track times weren't written on the label then I probably would've always played it on 33...

And its not Dr Coma, its Dr Baker

 

http://www.discogs.com/release/436027

[supergroover]

No hard feelings, but how the hell can I tell you on what speed should you spin a vinyl I don't have, and even worse, that I've never heard. I only speak for the vinyls I own, and as I said before, even when there is nothing written on them, I listen. Good and sane ears will do just fine any given time of the day...

why brag about tracks you have already heard a zillion times? it doesnt add to the topic and it doesnt help solving the question at all...

 

 

maybe try to search some databases like discogs. they could have the rpm written down. Maybe check the label for info.

 

You could off course slow down the 45 rpm one or speed up the 33 to make it sound right

 

 

 

 

About those 'rules' for rpm's. i remember an aphex twin vinyl which you had to play from the middle and i think it had some tracks (on the same side mind you!) that had to be played at 45 and some at 33. But i am not 100% sure about that. a true dj fucker that aphex twin

[NEMO.BOFH]

why brag about tracks you have already heard a zillion times? it doesnt add to the topic and it doesnt help solving the question at all...

maybe try to search some databases like discogs. they could have the rpm written down. Maybe check the label for info.

 

You could off course slow down the 45 rpm one or speed up the 33 to make it sound right

About those 'rules' for rpm's. i remember an aphex twin vinyl which you had to play from the middle and i think it had some tracks (on the same side mind you!) that had to be played at 45 and some at 33. But i am not 100% sure about that. a true dj fucker that aphex twin

In order to make it sound good, there is only a certain amount of time that you can press according to the RPM. If course, if you want to narrow the grooves, you can squeeze it some. So, the General rule will Apply. Seeing that there are over 15 minutes of music on both sides of the Dr Baker one, it should have been pressed at 33RPM.

 

Like I said though, you can squeeze it in. I have this vinyl at home in Sweden, so I can not check if it is supposed to be 33 or 45. However, as I remember, the tracks were around 125-130BPM...

[RTP]

NOT TRUE!! I have an EP called Dr Coma - Reality Remixes which has 3 tracks on each side (making a total of 6), like you I thought this had to be 33 RPMs by default but then I realized from the track times that it was 45 RPMs! If the track times weren't written on the label then I probably would've always played it on 33...

that is unfair ... really ... 3 tracks and still 45 RPM ... I never encountered anything like that!

 

if you want to narrow the grooves, you can squeeze it some

And that's exactly the reason why I have become an EP-lover ... because there's only one track on one side there's no need to squeeze and narrowing the grooves! At first I hated EPs ... "so much money for just two tracks"-naivity ... but now I'm loving them ... because since there are no flattened grooves to have more rooms for the etchings EPs mostly sound loud, clear and also rich in deep frequencies!