Jeff Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 And with my research, I am not trying to rate anything, I am trying to write an "essay" about how it all started, who was involved in what, and what was played when and where. I hope you don't get my posts wrong, and if I made the impression that I rated something higher than something else, I also apologize. It was a general remark, not at all aimed at you! Of course the goal of such a discussion board is, among other things, to talk about which artists we enjoy or we can't stand, and why. What I was questioning is the use of the notion of ratings, rather strange IMHO when applied to discussing a form of art. I don't know, saying that an artist is often booked at festivals or that he sells well seem more appropriate to me, no? Anyway, from then on, I'll mentally replace "overrated" by "too popular IMO" and it should be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 It was a general remark, not at all aimed at you! Of course the goal of such a discussion board is, among other things, to talk about which artists we enjoy or we can't stand, and why. What I was questioning is the use of the notion of ratings, rather strange IMHO when applied to discussing a form of art. I don't know, saying that an artist is often booked at festivals or that he sells well seem more appropriate to me, no? Anyway, from then on, I'll mentally replace "overrated" by "too popular IMO" and it should be fine. Yes, thats a good one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w_lizzard Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 So many interesting opinions... Still are some missing there I guess...? One of the persons I trust in his taste of music in my favorite forum is DP and I feel I will agree with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 So many interesting opinions... Still are some missing there I guess...? One of the persons I trust in his taste of music in my favorite forum is DP and I feel I will agree with him. Like we said before, taste has nothing to do with this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drosophila Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 Now, The question is if he is a pioneer, and why would be be an OVERRATED pioneer. Someone else with views on that? I could not say that hes an overrated pioneer, I could say "Today hes overrated" but he for sure deserves his spot as Pioneer of goa/psy trance. Opinions people? I agree.... This is not about liking Simon's work really... but if u don't realize he was one of the pioneers then u really have missed Captain Obvious But then again I don't think anybody here would feel like that if they had to be honest.... but its just so damn cool to be anti..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 oh yes you're right nemo i'm the only one who believes hallucinogen is overrated don't read the topic title..just read the posts. Just because some people think Hallucinogen as such is overrated doesn't make it (or him to be correct) less of a pioneer imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 I agree.... This is not about liking Simon's work really... but if u don't realize he was one of the pioneers then u really have missed Captain Obvious But then again I don't think anybody here would feel like that if they had to be honest.... but its just so damn cool to be anti..... LOL! You have totally missed my other posts after that didnt you? I wassn the one that STATED that he was overrated "Captain Do not Read all posts before I comment" He is NO DOUBT a Pioneer. e. Maybe the post from you was not for me? (Sorry if I misunderstood, have not even had coffee yet hehe) I was referring this post: Early pioneers : MWNN, goa gil 1995-2000 : the ultimate pioneers to me are California sunshine (and not only for this period, i really like also their "sinking sand" album from 2003) also top pioneer projects : Transwave, MFG, Etnica, Electric universe (mostly) Overated "pioneers" : hallucinogen, Astral projection project who have nothing to do with this thread : eat static (mostly), koxbox. everything above is IMO of course. EDIT: Because for some of the guys here this post wasn't clear, i'll make it more clear: because it's obvious which projects are the pioneers my trying to this post was to give a different eye in this thread. that means: my mention was firstly about the main goa-trance pioneers (who are goa-trance projects for many years and not only about only few tracks) and then the pioneers from period 1995-2000 mostly cause of their pioneer goaish music techniques. i can't call eat static pioneers even if they have produced a few goaish tracks because in to my eyes they arent goa trance project. they have over a 15 years history and the goaish tracks from them are only few. as for koxbox if some1 believes their sound goa i wonder how can we desribe the Indoor sound, or california sunshine sound for example. so to me starters deserved to called projects with big length with goaish sound in scene. that was my point. About Rez Edit: It is in my opinion that you can not dismiss the fact that without Koxbox, Eat Static, Martin Freeland etc etc and many more you would not have artists like Har-El, Transwave etc etc. And that-folks-make them pioneers of Goa Trance, no matter if you Like or Dislike their music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drosophila Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 LOL! You have totally missed my other posts after that didnt you? I wassn the one that STATED that he was overrated "Captain Do not Read all posts before I comment" He is NO DOUBT a Pioneer. e. Maybe the post from you was not for me? (Sorry if I misunderstood, have not even had coffee yet hehe) I was referring this post: About Rez Edit: It is in my opinion that you can not dismiss the fact that without Koxbox, Eat Static, Martin Freeland etc etc and many more you would not have artists like Har-El, Transwave etc etc. And that-folks-make them pioneers of Goa Trance, no matter if you Like or Dislike their music. Heheh yeah I was nor referring to to u Nemo... I was agreeing Drink some more coffee I think I might have to get brewing myself! And was actually referring to Rezwalker who yet again is caught up in personal taste vs making sense... and guess who won??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Heheh yeah I was nor referring to to u Nemo... I was agreeing Drink some more coffee I think I might have to get brewing myself! And was actually referring to Rezwalker who yet again is caught up in personal taste vs making sense... and guess who won???More coffee it is!! And sorry again! Anyways, I was thinking more about Planet BEN, he made a lot of music with X-Dream and has been around since 1983... I would love to know what projects all in total he has been involved in. Maybe we have a very hidden pioneer there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oopie Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 More coffee it is!! And sorry again! Anyways, I was thinking more about Planet BEN, he made a lot of music with X-Dream and has been around since 1983... I would love to know what projects all in total he has been involved in. Maybe we have a very hidden pioneer there! you know anyone who could provide you with his email or something? I'm also very curious to hear more about Ben! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 you know anyone who could provide you with his email or something? I'm also very curious to hear more about Ben! I will dig into that, and I will PM you his email if I get it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideffect... Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Man With No Name might not be one of the best artists, but he was one of the first... Sounded the same in 1993 as he did on the latest album. Cheesy melodies, good production, trancy sounds. that album is indeed imo a crossover, it's like melodic techno, don't know how to describe it, I think labels are more the pioneers, dragonfly first compilation from 1994 for example... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 that album is indeed imo a crossover, it's like melodic techno, don't know how to describe it, I think labels are more the pioneers, dragonfly first compilation from 1994 for example... Dont forget the Dragonfly EP in 1993 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nurbs Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Dragonfly/lsd surely a pioneer label . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideffect... Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Dont forget the Dragonfly EP in 1993 indeed but that one I don't have original... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest antic Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Just found that Koxbox's tune from 1993: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1bZ2v19TS0 WOW!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drosophila Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Just found that Koxbox's tune from 1993: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1bZ2v19TS0 WOW!!! Thanks, thats nice man! VErY psychedelic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rezwalker Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 this thread is interesting.. Oopie believes all the guys who posting in thread "hallucinogen is underrated" are silly (notice there are 6 pages in the specific thread) some others here they want to convince us that eat static is goa trance project... wow @ Drosophila : sfx (1989) MWNN (1990) Overlords (1991), hallucinogen (1994) who is pioneer? hallucinogen? so u better don't talk about sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abasio Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Pioneer : one who is first or among the earliest in any field of inquiry, enterprise, or progress surely we can count people who helped progress the sound aswell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rezwalker Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 surely we can count people who helped progress the sound aswell? of course we can. (partly) my mention was because nemo said without eat static kox box we would not have artists like transwave-har-el etc etc.. with that logic we can say: without Sfx Overlords MWNN Goa gil u would not have hallucinogen btw i have read something on isra who said har-el has started 1991. to be honest dunno if that's true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drosophila Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 @ Drosophila : sfx (1989) MWNN (1990) Overlords (1991), hallucinogen (1994) who is pioneer? hallucinogen? so u better don't talk about sense Well then all people who started making music after 91 is no longer among the pioneers.... well its not what I think its all about as abasio already stated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rezwalker Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Well then all people who started making music after 91 is no longer among the pioneers.... they are partly. u think it's normal to call some1 pioneer after 5 and 6 years after the starters? yes their contribution was very important in to the scene with their new ideas, progress etc etc i agree to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drosophila Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 they are partly. u think it's normal to call some1 pioneer after 5 and 6 years after the starters? yes their contribution was very important in to the scene with their new ideas, progress etc etc i agree to that.So its just down to interpretation of the word pioneer... and how you weight the meaning, I see what u mean. But I will still be saying that Hallucinogen was one the pioneers because he changed the progress.... otherwise this would be a very boring discussion if we just had to go to discogs or where ever to find out who were the first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rezwalker Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 So its just down to interpretation of the word pioneer... and how you weight the meaning, I see what u mean. But I will still be saying that Hallucinogen was one the pioneers because he changed the progress.... otherwise this would be a very boring discussion if we just had to go to discogs or where ever to find out who were the first yeap probably the confusion is about the interpretation of the word pioneer. as for Hallucinogen he is big artist with no doubt...tracks like Angelic particles and LSD are all time classics and memorable. so when i'm saying he is overrated that not means necessary he is not good artist. i believe there are and some other good artists in same level (e.x Psychaos) Psychaos has probably more classic tracks than hallu.. the all time mention about hallu only is a bit annoying... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drosophila Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 yeap probably the confusion is about the interpretation of the word pioneer. as for Hallucinogen he is big artist with no doubt...tracks like Angelic particles and LSD are all time classics and memorable. so when i'm saying he is overrated that not means necessary he is not good artist. i believe there are and some other good artists in same level (e.x Psychaos) Psychaos has probably more classic tracks than hallu.. the all time mention about hallu only is a bit annoying... Well I don't see people here only mentioning hallu (maybe some idunno I didn't check) and that wouldn't make sense anyways there are no single pioneers here. How do u measure more classic tracks? Yeah Joti has made some great tracks but... bah its all just taste when it comes down to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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